My 1995 Toyota Avalon has 93493 miles on it and approximately 1500 miles on its Castro GTX 5w-30 motor oil and Purolator PureONE oil filter. I purchased a bottle of Auto-RX last December and I was going to put ten ounces of it in the engine today. I had a plastic cup with lines drawn on it to indicate four and six ounces, so that I could pour exactly ten into the engine. I poured four ounces into the cup; then I went outside, I opened the hood, I opened the oil cap and I discovered engine sludge had accumulated since the last oil change such that it had filled the oil opening all the way to the oil cap. None was visible on the bottom of the cap, but judging from the height and shape of the sludge, the sludge is touching it when it is in place. I called my uncle for help, as he is the car person in the family (he was a car enthusiast when he was younger), but he is not home. I imagine that the most prudent thing to do is to scoop the sludge out of the opening, do an oil and oil filter change, run the Auto-RX treatment that I wanted to do and then hope that everything is okay. Is this a wise idea and do I have any other options?
Sludged engine
- Thread starter ShiningArcanine
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How easy is it to pull the oil pan? Removing the valve covers is a must as well.
What kind of maintenance has the car seen? Have you owned it since new? What kind of driving circuit?
What kind of maintenance has the car seen? Have you owned it since new? What kind of driving circuit?
1. I have no clue.
2. I am not sure if it is possible for me to do that. My Avalon has the same engine as the Camry on the following page:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/cleaning_sludge.html
Is it possible to discern the difficulty of removing the valve covers from the pictures on that site?
3. Well, it is supposed to have had oil changes with Castro GTX 5w-30 motor oil every 5,000 miles until 72,000 miles, but no records were kept of them and from what I remember, until I took over the car's maintenance at 72,000 miles, the oil change intervals deviated from that as my father did not check the mileage on it that often. I do not know what filters my father used, but they were probably the cheapest filters available and the oil filters probably spanned multiple oil change intervals. At 72,000 miles, I ran Mobil 1 through the engine, causing several oil leaks because the Mobil 1 dissolved the engine's false seals. The engine was resealed last January, stopping the leaks. At 72,000 miles, I also switched the car over to a Purolator PureONE oil filter. A few hundred miles after changing the oil to Mobil 1, my family discovered the leaks and the car went to the dealership to have its oil changed with the Mobil 5000 oil Toyota uses and the OEM oil filter put into the car. At 77,000 miles the engine's oil was changed again at the dealership, but a PureONE oil filter was used. Since then, it has had oil changes roughly every 5000 miles (plus or minus 150 miles) with Castro GTX 5w-30 motor oil and a PureONE oil filter.
4. My parents are the original owners. I am in college now and they gave he car to me.
5. Well prior to last summer, the car saw almost all city driving with very little highway driving; it made many short trips. Since last summer, it has been doing 50/50 highway/city driving, with the city driving being 90% at 55 mph (due to my commute). In terms of miles, it has made very few short trips, although my mother has used it to run all of the errands (which involve short trips) she ran before last summer.
2. I am not sure if it is possible for me to do that. My Avalon has the same engine as the Camry on the following page:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/cleaning_sludge.html
Is it possible to discern the difficulty of removing the valve covers from the pictures on that site?
3. Well, it is supposed to have had oil changes with Castro GTX 5w-30 motor oil every 5,000 miles until 72,000 miles, but no records were kept of them and from what I remember, until I took over the car's maintenance at 72,000 miles, the oil change intervals deviated from that as my father did not check the mileage on it that often. I do not know what filters my father used, but they were probably the cheapest filters available and the oil filters probably spanned multiple oil change intervals. At 72,000 miles, I ran Mobil 1 through the engine, causing several oil leaks because the Mobil 1 dissolved the engine's false seals. The engine was resealed last January, stopping the leaks. At 72,000 miles, I also switched the car over to a Purolator PureONE oil filter. A few hundred miles after changing the oil to Mobil 1, my family discovered the leaks and the car went to the dealership to have its oil changed with the Mobil 5000 oil Toyota uses and the OEM oil filter put into the car. At 77,000 miles the engine's oil was changed again at the dealership, but a PureONE oil filter was used. Since then, it has had oil changes roughly every 5000 miles (plus or minus 150 miles) with Castro GTX 5w-30 motor oil and a PureONE oil filter.
4. My parents are the original owners. I am in college now and they gave he car to me.
5. Well prior to last summer, the car saw almost all city driving with very little highway driving; it made many short trips. Since last summer, it has been doing 50/50 highway/city driving, with the city driving being 90% at 55 mph (due to my commute). In terms of miles, it has made very few short trips, although my mother has used it to run all of the errands (which involve short trips) she ran before last summer.
Get your uncle to check the operation of the PCV system before you do anything. Clean and replace parts as necessary.
If the PCV was not working, you might want to do a short OCI before using the ARX. Try half Syntec 5W-20 half RTS. That engine should never have seen the likes of anything but top-shelf full synthetics. Good luck.
If the PCV was not working, you might want to do a short OCI before using the ARX. Try half Syntec 5W-20 half RTS. That engine should never have seen the likes of anything but top-shelf full synthetics. Good luck.
It just occurred to me that the numbers 72,000 and 77,000 are actually 77,000 and 82,000. The reason I thought they were 72,000 and 77,000 is because at 72,000, I did an oil change with my father on the car for the first time. Anyway at the 82,000 mile oil change that was done at the dealer's service department, they talked my mother into a PCV valve change claiming that it was clogged, 5,000 miles after a new aftermarket one had been installed, by my uncle and me. At the 92,000 mile oil change, my uncle and I discovered that the PCV valve was clogged, so we changed it. He told me to change the PCV Valve every 5,000 miles. I am not sure if this information is useful, but I am mentioning it hoping that it is. Exactly what should I ask my uncle to check regarding the operation of the PCV system? If it is to check the PCV valve to see if it is clogged (which would be strange with only 1,500 miles on it, but is possible from what I have read about engine sludge), I can do that myself right now. My uncle showed me how to change the PCV valve and I should be able to do it right now if it is helpful (it is getting dark, so I might not be able to do it after the next fifteen to thirty minutes).
Check the PCV valve. You can also clean out the PCV inlet and outlet hoses with lamp oil or kerosene. I would suspect a problem since the sludge accelerated over the last 1500miles.
You might consider hand cleaning the top of the head and valve cover before proceeding with the ARX. You are probably pretty close to losing the engine. Also, Mobil 1 likes to leak out of alot of engines that never leaked before. You probably could have switched to another brand synthetic and had the leaks cease with no engine work at all.
You might consider hand cleaning the top of the head and valve cover before proceeding with the ARX. You are probably pretty close to losing the engine. Also, Mobil 1 likes to leak out of alot of engines that never leaked before. You probably could have switched to another brand synthetic and had the leaks cease with no engine work at all.
It is a little late to check the PCV valve so I will leave that for tomorrow when hopefully, my uncle will be able to help me with the car.
As for the synthetic oil, would a non-synthetic Group III oil like Pennzoil Platinum be good? I was planning to switch to it (I already have a six quart case of the oil) after the Auto-RX treatment, but now I am not sure whether I should or should not. Also, would using Castrol GTX during the Auto-RX run be okay? I am asking because I have a few dozen quarts of Castrol GTX and only six quarts of the Pennzoil Platinum, as I wanted to try the oil first before I brought more. Lastly, how many Auto-RX runs should I do? Two or three?
I wish there was an edit function. Anyway, disregard the "two or three?" part, as I am willing to do as many oil changes and Auto-RX runs as necessary to resolve the issue, as any number of them is cheaper than a new engine.
I bought a 96 Avalon last April, it had 125K miles on it when I bought it. I also have no maintainance records on the car. I did an oil change within a month after I pickup the Avalon. It seems to run ok during the month that I drove it. Last summer, I did 2 Auto-rx cycles on it and it has been running very well. I put over 15K miles on it since April last year. Last weekend, I checked the PCV valve and found it was partially clogged, so I replaced it with a new OEM one. The car seems to run a lot smoother. Since the Avalon has some sort of cover under the oil cap and you can't really look into the engine, where do you see or found the sludge except on the oil cap itself?
Some good recommendations here : check the PCV and it's hose(s), pull valve covers and oil pan if possible.
It sounds like a significant quantity of sludge has accumulated in one oil change. That does not sound normal at all, even for a sludge prone engine. Have you noticed any sudden loss of coolant from the coolant tank, but no evidence of external leakage ?
It sounds like a significant quantity of sludge has accumulated in one oil change. That does not sound normal at all, even for a sludge prone engine. Have you noticed any sudden loss of coolant from the coolant tank, but no evidence of external leakage ?
Change oil immediately with fresh Castrol GTX and an oversized filter such as Napa Gold 1516, which has the same bypass valve and diameter but 1.4" longer than OEM size.
You want as much capacity as you can get to store the sludge. Wix filter's thread end bypass will also help since sludge deposited won't be washed back into the engine when filter media is clogged and bypassed.
Dump 10 oz ARX into the new oil and start treatment. Cut open the filter to monitor progress.
PCV valve is the symptom, not the cause of sludge.
You want as much capacity as you can get to store the sludge. Wix filter's thread end bypass will also help since sludge deposited won't be washed back into the engine when filter media is clogged and bypassed.
Dump 10 oz ARX into the new oil and start treatment. Cut open the filter to monitor progress.
PCV valve is the symptom, not the cause of sludge.
That's what crossed my mind. The one of these V-6s I saw had a black krinkle-coated baffle directly under the cap, and it prevents you from seeing any of the valvetrain. Might a similar device be on this engine? It looks like a hard-baked coating, and nothing flakes off when you scratch it with your fingernail.
I had a 96 Avalon that I bought new, drove for 194,000 mi. Used only Castrol GTX or Pennzoil or Havoline, all 5W-30, every 4,000-5000 mi. Took it to the Toyota dealer for scheduled maintenance such as replacement of timing belt, etc. Only repair I can recall was right front axle replacement due to torn boot. When we bought a new 2006 Avalon last summer, we sold the old one to a friend who has two teenaged daughters. As far as I know it still runs perfectly.
The baked on coating on the baffle looked to me like baked oil rather than an applied coating. If ShiningArcanine's engine has a sludge problem, I would find it hard to believe that it is a design problem.
As you can probably deduce from my post, I am not a "car guy". All I do is change the oil and filter and wash the things every couple of months whether they need it or not.
The sludge is not on the oil cap. It is right beneath it and it looks like a browny but it has a very fine surface with a depression where the bottom of the cap would touch it. I do not think that more sludge could possibly fill that area without rising to cover the cap. I noticed what looked like fresh oil on the bottom of the cap, which probably somehow soaked through the sludge.
It is dark (I am on the East Coast), so I cannot take a picture right now. I will try to do that tomorrow morning.
My uncle checked the coolant level 1500 miles ago and it was fine. I will check it again in the morning, but it should be fine; the Avalon's engine coolant has never given me a problem.
By the way, the last errand I went on today was a short trip where one to two miles from the house; cars were traveling in excess of 50 mph (40 mph zone) and they kept coming so I had to floor the accelerator pedal to get on to the road. Is there any chance that flooring the accelerator sent existing sludge visible to the oil cap?
Quote:
Change oil immediately with fresh Castrol GTX and an oversized filter such as Napa Gold 1516, which has the same bypass valve and diameter but 1.4" longer than OEM size.
You want as much capacity as you can get to store the sludge. Wix filter's thread end bypass will also help since sludge deposited won't be washed back into the engine when filter media is clogged and bypassed.
Dump 10 oz ARX into the new oil and start treatment. Cut open the filter to monitor progress.
PCV valve is the symptom, not the cause of sludge.
I will try to get an oversized filter tomorrow, if possible, a NAPA Gold 1516. Does anyone know if Autozone, Autobarn or Pep Boys typically carry them? I can get a ride from my father, but he is very busy so I cannot afford to use his time go to places that do not carry them.
You can buy at Napa Auto Parts
http://www.napaautocare.com/locator/StoreLocator.aspx?st=0
Carquest
http://www.carquest.com/find.html
Or call around other places that carries Wix filter
http://www.wixfilters.com/wheretobuy/index.asp
I would avoid those filters that have dome end bypass design such as FRAM, and Champions Labs clicker bypass valve such as STP and SuperTech (non-functional). In your case, bypass valve is important because you will fill up your filter quickly.
http://www.napaautocare.com/locator/StoreLocator.aspx?st=0
Carquest
http://www.carquest.com/find.html
Or call around other places that carries Wix filter
http://www.wixfilters.com/wheretobuy/index.asp
I would avoid those filters that have dome end bypass design such as FRAM, and Champions Labs clicker bypass valve such as STP and SuperTech (non-functional). In your case, bypass valve is important because you will fill up your filter quickly.
A Motorcraft FL400 filter, or 3600 size from Supertech or Fram would work just as well and all should be available at your closest Walmart.
If you can't get a picture tonight could you stick your finger in the oil cap opening and see if you can scoop any of the stuff out?
If you can't get a picture tonight could you stick your finger in the oil cap opening and see if you can scoop any of the stuff out?
That is great news. I will pick up two Fram oil filters at Pep Boys tomorrow.
As for the sludge, it is very dark out and I do not have the means to properly dispose of the sludge. I should be able to clean it out at my uncle's house tomorrow; he should have every tool I should need and a way to dispose of the stuff.
I've owned a couple 1MZ powered cars myself, and I once tried the oversize filter thing, just because I wanted to. I put an M1-209 on, but only ran it for about half an OCI. The filter on this engine screws onto the front of the block, below and near the exhaust, and with the large filter, at its closest, there's only about a thumb width of space between filter and very hot metal. The standard size filter on this engine is pretty large (at least compared to what they're spec-ing for similar engines today), and personally, I'd stay with that just for the exhaust proximity issue. I took some pix of this a while back; I'll see if I can find them and post one or two. Good luck with it. . .
ekpolk, you are right, it does become very hot in there and there is not much room. I guess I will stick with the Purolator PureONE oil filters that I have been using for the oil change and subsequent Auto-RX treatment. Does anyone have any ideas as to how many Auto-RX treatments I should run? I am willing to run as many as it takes to clean the sludge out of the engine.
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