Since Amsoil is so good, why doesn't every1 use it
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When I became a dealer I must admit I was not thrilled when I learned Amsoil was MLM. I became a dealer because of the great products. It is just another way to distribute a product to the end user.
FYI a pyramid scheme means you don't have a viable product. MLM is legit and totally different than a pyramid scheme.
FYI a pyramid scheme means you don't have a viable product. MLM is legit and totally different than a pyramid scheme.
Originally Posted By: Fahrfuwerfuelen
One of the AMSOIL dealers on another forum kept insisting that AMSOIL's product "meets or exceeds" VW 505.01, yet no sample had ever been sent to VW for testing. This person kept insisting that it was OK to use this oil and that AMSOIL's warranty would cover repairs.
Well, the terms "meets or exceeds" are just marketing terms and somewhat misleading, at that. Several oil companies list their products with the "meets or exceeds" language, but do not have the approval to back up the claim.
Including some quite reputable large companies. The "Meets or Exceeds" hype isn't just restricted to boutique products
One of the AMSOIL dealers on another forum kept insisting that AMSOIL's product "meets or exceeds" VW 505.01, yet no sample had ever been sent to VW for testing. This person kept insisting that it was OK to use this oil and that AMSOIL's warranty would cover repairs.
Well, the terms "meets or exceeds" are just marketing terms and somewhat misleading, at that. Several oil companies list their products with the "meets or exceeds" language, but do not have the approval to back up the claim.
Including some quite reputable large companies. The "Meets or Exceeds" hype isn't just restricted to boutique products
i always wonderd why supertech wasnt #1.
day in/ day out: most cost effective lube out there.
no,no wait "with the amsoil extended oci...." yawn.
I better hurry and "back it up" too, because it makes such a big difference to "my engine"
day in/ day out: most cost effective lube out there.
no,no wait "with the amsoil extended oci...." yawn.
I better hurry and "back it up" too, because it makes such a big difference to "my engine"
Originally Posted By: bigjeffie
i always wonderd why supertech wasnt #1.
day in/ day out: most cost effective lube out there.
no,no wait "with the amsoil extended oci...." yawn.
I better hurry and "back it up" too, because it makes such a big difference to "my engine"
?
i always wonderd why supertech wasnt #1.
day in/ day out: most cost effective lube out there.
no,no wait "with the amsoil extended oci...." yawn.
I better hurry and "back it up" too, because it makes such a big difference to "my engine"
?
Originally Posted By: LexusAussie
Originally Posted By: Fahrfuwerfuelen
One of the AMSOIL dealers on another forum kept insisting that AMSOIL's product "meets or exceeds" VW 505.01, yet no sample had ever been sent to VW for testing. This person kept insisting that it was OK to use this oil and that AMSOIL's warranty would cover repairs.
Well, the terms "meets or exceeds" are just marketing terms and somewhat misleading, at that. Several oil companies list their products with the "meets or exceeds" language, but do not have the approval to back up the claim.
Including some quite reputable large companies. The "Meets or Exceeds" hype isn't just restricted to boutique products
Actually, "Meets or Exceeds" is not hype. It is the law( Magnuson-Moss ). Just as the car mfg can not force you to use their brand fluid they can NOT force you to use a "certified" fluid( their own standard )either.
You are not required to use a fluid that is "certified" to any specific mfg's standard just that it meet or exceed that standard when it is called for. In the VW instance that has been mentioned if Amsoil meets or exceeds that oil standard in question it is 100% safe for warranty use. Actually, the best example is GM6094M. There is a huge list of certified oils on GM's list but there are just as many not on the list that meet or exceed the standard that are absolutely safe for use and will not compromise your warranty.
MFG certified oil lists mean squat other than that oil mfg paid the car mfg to be tested and get on the list( so uninformed people that think only those oils are okay to use will buy them ). If a fluid mfg tells you their fluid meets/exceeds the standard in question that should be enough because if it doesn't it is false advertising and you have a claim against them.
If you are worried the mfg is making a false claim either don't buy the product or get a copy of the fluid standard and then compare the test results against the oil you want to use. If you only feel comfortable using a certified fluid found on a mfg's list then do so but don't tell others that is the only warranty safe way to go because that is 100% false. "Meets or Exceeds" however is NOT hype. It is consumer protection built into the Magnuson-Moss act and is the law.
Originally Posted By: Fahrfuwerfuelen
One of the AMSOIL dealers on another forum kept insisting that AMSOIL's product "meets or exceeds" VW 505.01, yet no sample had ever been sent to VW for testing. This person kept insisting that it was OK to use this oil and that AMSOIL's warranty would cover repairs.
Well, the terms "meets or exceeds" are just marketing terms and somewhat misleading, at that. Several oil companies list their products with the "meets or exceeds" language, but do not have the approval to back up the claim.
Including some quite reputable large companies. The "Meets or Exceeds" hype isn't just restricted to boutique products
Actually, "Meets or Exceeds" is not hype. It is the law( Magnuson-Moss ). Just as the car mfg can not force you to use their brand fluid they can NOT force you to use a "certified" fluid( their own standard )either.
You are not required to use a fluid that is "certified" to any specific mfg's standard just that it meet or exceed that standard when it is called for. In the VW instance that has been mentioned if Amsoil meets or exceeds that oil standard in question it is 100% safe for warranty use. Actually, the best example is GM6094M. There is a huge list of certified oils on GM's list but there are just as many not on the list that meet or exceed the standard that are absolutely safe for use and will not compromise your warranty.
MFG certified oil lists mean squat other than that oil mfg paid the car mfg to be tested and get on the list( so uninformed people that think only those oils are okay to use will buy them ). If a fluid mfg tells you their fluid meets/exceeds the standard in question that should be enough because if it doesn't it is false advertising and you have a claim against them.
If you are worried the mfg is making a false claim either don't buy the product or get a copy of the fluid standard and then compare the test results against the oil you want to use. If you only feel comfortable using a certified fluid found on a mfg's list then do so but don't tell others that is the only warranty safe way to go because that is 100% false. "Meets or Exceeds" however is NOT hype. It is consumer protection built into the Magnuson-Moss act and is the law.
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NHSilverado - that is exceedingly clear and well said.
Sure seems to be an awful lot of attitude on this site...
Originally Posted By: NHSilverado
Actually, "Meets or Exceeds" is not hype. It is the law( Magnuson-Moss ). Just as the car mfg can not force you to use their brand fluid they can NOT force you to use a "certified" fluid( their own standard )either.
You are not required to use a fluid that is "certified" to any specific mfg's standard just that it meet or exceed that standard when it is called for. In the VW instance that has been mentioned if Amsoil meets or exceeds that oil standard in question it is 100% safe for warranty use. Actually, the best example is GM6094M. There is a huge list of certified oils on GM's list but there are just as many not on the list that meet or exceed the standard that are absolutely safe for use and will not compromise your warranty.
MFG certified oil lists mean squat other than that oil mfg paid the car mfg to be tested and get on the list( so uninformed people that think only those oils are okay to use will buy them ). If a fluid mfg tells you their fluid meets/exceeds the standard in question that should be enough because if it doesn't it is false advertising and you have a claim against them.
If you are worried the mfg is making a false claim either don't buy the product or get a copy of the fluid standard and then compare the test results against the oil you want to use. If you only feel comfortable using a certified fluid found on a mfg's list then do so but don't tell others that is the only warranty safe way to go because that is 100% false. "Meets or Exceeds" however is NOT hype. It is consumer protection built into the Magnuson-Moss act and is the law.
I don't want to engage in some kind of war over this issue. For discussion sake, consider the following hypothetical. I form a company to market motor oil. I package plain vegetable oil in containers and label it as "meets or exceeds ABC auto mfg.'s standard XYZ." Many consumers buy this marvel and I quickly take the profits and fold up shop and disappear. Now numerous engines develop problems because they were not intended to run on vegetable oil. The dealerships take samples of the oil and discover it's veggie oil. Do you really believe the Mfg and dealer will perform warranty service? Their response will be you did not use the proper lubricant and deny warranty coverage. But, your response is the label on the container says it "meets or exceeds", blah, blah, blah.
Good luck trying to win that one. Now this may never happen, but who wants to spend considerable time, money and frustration fighting the vehicle Mfg. over the denial of warranty coverage?
I agree the Mag-Moss Warranty Act would require the Mfg. to provide free oil if the Mfg. specified that you must use only a particular brand of oil. But that's not the case. The vehicle manual only states that you need to use an oil which meets the MFG.'s specs. So, the option is use one of the oils certified by the Mfg. and then the Mfg. would have a hard time denying warranty coverage, or use whatever and dig in for a battle with the Mfg.
I'm not saying that any of the oils which are not on the list are bad products. To me, it's a question of whether fighting the Mfg. is worth it.
Actually, "Meets or Exceeds" is not hype. It is the law( Magnuson-Moss ). Just as the car mfg can not force you to use their brand fluid they can NOT force you to use a "certified" fluid( their own standard )either.
You are not required to use a fluid that is "certified" to any specific mfg's standard just that it meet or exceed that standard when it is called for. In the VW instance that has been mentioned if Amsoil meets or exceeds that oil standard in question it is 100% safe for warranty use. Actually, the best example is GM6094M. There is a huge list of certified oils on GM's list but there are just as many not on the list that meet or exceed the standard that are absolutely safe for use and will not compromise your warranty.
MFG certified oil lists mean squat other than that oil mfg paid the car mfg to be tested and get on the list( so uninformed people that think only those oils are okay to use will buy them ). If a fluid mfg tells you their fluid meets/exceeds the standard in question that should be enough because if it doesn't it is false advertising and you have a claim against them.
If you are worried the mfg is making a false claim either don't buy the product or get a copy of the fluid standard and then compare the test results against the oil you want to use. If you only feel comfortable using a certified fluid found on a mfg's list then do so but don't tell others that is the only warranty safe way to go because that is 100% false. "Meets or Exceeds" however is NOT hype. It is consumer protection built into the Magnuson-Moss act and is the law.
I don't want to engage in some kind of war over this issue. For discussion sake, consider the following hypothetical. I form a company to market motor oil. I package plain vegetable oil in containers and label it as "meets or exceeds ABC auto mfg.'s standard XYZ." Many consumers buy this marvel and I quickly take the profits and fold up shop and disappear. Now numerous engines develop problems because they were not intended to run on vegetable oil. The dealerships take samples of the oil and discover it's veggie oil. Do you really believe the Mfg and dealer will perform warranty service? Their response will be you did not use the proper lubricant and deny warranty coverage. But, your response is the label on the container says it "meets or exceeds", blah, blah, blah.
Good luck trying to win that one. Now this may never happen, but who wants to spend considerable time, money and frustration fighting the vehicle Mfg. over the denial of warranty coverage?
I agree the Mag-Moss Warranty Act would require the Mfg. to provide free oil if the Mfg. specified that you must use only a particular brand of oil. But that's not the case. The vehicle manual only states that you need to use an oil which meets the MFG.'s specs. So, the option is use one of the oils certified by the Mfg. and then the Mfg. would have a hard time denying warranty coverage, or use whatever and dig in for a battle with the Mfg.
I'm not saying that any of the oils which are not on the list are bad products. To me, it's a question of whether fighting the Mfg. is worth it.
Quote:
Good luck trying to win that one. Now this may never happen, but who wants to spend considerable time, money and frustration fighting the vehicle Mfg. over the denial of warranty coverage?
Where are all these people who are fighting mfg's over the use of lubricants?
OEM's are definitely intended to intimidate you.
Good luck trying to win that one. Now this may never happen, but who wants to spend considerable time, money and frustration fighting the vehicle Mfg. over the denial of warranty coverage?
Where are all these people who are fighting mfg's over the use of lubricants?
OEM's are definitely intended to intimidate you.
Originally Posted By: Fahrfuwerfuelen
I package plain vegetable oil in containers and label it as "meets or exceeds ABC auto mfg.'s standard XYZ." Many consumers buy this marvel and I quickly take the profits and fold up shop and disappear. Now numerous engines develop problems because they were not intended to run on vegetable oil.
That would clearly be fraud. A warrant would be issued for your arrest. You be fined, thrown in jail and further sued. Your arse would be owned.
I package plain vegetable oil in containers and label it as "meets or exceeds ABC auto mfg.'s standard XYZ." Many consumers buy this marvel and I quickly take the profits and fold up shop and disappear. Now numerous engines develop problems because they were not intended to run on vegetable oil.
That would clearly be fraud. A warrant would be issued for your arrest. You be fined, thrown in jail and further sued. Your arse would be owned.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Plenty of people use Amsoil. Maybe not a household name, but most every auto enthusiast has heard of it. Most every snowmobiler, biker, RC'er, garden professional, etc has heard of Amsoil as well.
Mostly the reason for people sticking with brands is gut feel. Some people don't readily change from what their fathers used. Other folks do seek the new, and in general people can order oil without problems.
We have a winner! Plus the price of it and the dealership pushing the "manual" deal......................
Plenty of people use Amsoil. Maybe not a household name, but most every auto enthusiast has heard of it. Most every snowmobiler, biker, RC'er, garden professional, etc has heard of Amsoil as well.
Mostly the reason for people sticking with brands is gut feel. Some people don't readily change from what their fathers used. Other folks do seek the new, and in general people can order oil without problems.
We have a winner! Plus the price of it and the dealership pushing the "manual" deal......................
Originally Posted By: CMB
Sure seems to be an awful lot of attitude on this site...
Additude is what brings the people with brain power to this site!!!Except me I have good looks and an abundance of charm.
Sure seems to be an awful lot of attitude on this site...
Additude is what brings the people with brain power to this site!!!Except me I have good looks and an abundance of charm.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Fahrfuwerfuelen
I package plain vegetable oil in containers and label it as "meets or exceeds ABC auto mfg.'s standard XYZ." Many consumers buy this marvel and I quickly take the profits and fold up shop and disappear. Now numerous engines develop problems because they were not intended to run on vegetable oil.
That would clearly be fraud. A warrant would be issued for your arrest. You be fined, thrown in jail and further sued. Your arse would be owned.
pablo--
Read the hypothetical. Get money, close shop and disappear. Of course it would be fraud. Now, how does that change what I put on the label of the containers? Do you think that's going to persuade the vehicle Mfg. to provide warranty repairs?
In the real world, vehicle Mfgs. will try to ditch warranty repairs whenever possible. It costs them $$$$, which means less profit. So they will likely blame the oil Mfg. The oil Mfg. likewise doesn't want to spend $$$ for repairs as that lowers its profits. The oil Mfg will claim the problem was from a poor design and/or defective parts and the vehicle Mfg. is responsible. So while you are in court arguing the Mag-Moss Warranty issue, where's the car? You either pay for the repairs out of pocket and hope you will win your lawsuit against the vehile and oil Mfgs. (plan on a fews years to get thru the court system), or you wait until the lawsuit is finished, again several years, and then have either the vehicle Mfg or oil Mfg pay for the repairs. Hope you have another vehicle or great public transportation system to get around in the meantime.
So, the real question becomes...How comfortable are you at putting warranty coverage at risk? Risk the denial of warranty coverage and use an oil which is not approved by the vehicle Mfg. or use an oil which is on the list so the vehicle Mfg. will have a difficult time denying coverage?
For me, the decision is easy.
Originally Posted By: Fahrfuwerfuelen
I package plain vegetable oil in containers and label it as "meets or exceeds ABC auto mfg.'s standard XYZ." Many consumers buy this marvel and I quickly take the profits and fold up shop and disappear. Now numerous engines develop problems because they were not intended to run on vegetable oil.
That would clearly be fraud. A warrant would be issued for your arrest. You be fined, thrown in jail and further sued. Your arse would be owned.
pablo--
Read the hypothetical. Get money, close shop and disappear. Of course it would be fraud. Now, how does that change what I put on the label of the containers? Do you think that's going to persuade the vehicle Mfg. to provide warranty repairs?
In the real world, vehicle Mfgs. will try to ditch warranty repairs whenever possible. It costs them $$$$, which means less profit. So they will likely blame the oil Mfg. The oil Mfg. likewise doesn't want to spend $$$ for repairs as that lowers its profits. The oil Mfg will claim the problem was from a poor design and/or defective parts and the vehicle Mfg. is responsible. So while you are in court arguing the Mag-Moss Warranty issue, where's the car? You either pay for the repairs out of pocket and hope you will win your lawsuit against the vehile and oil Mfgs. (plan on a fews years to get thru the court system), or you wait until the lawsuit is finished, again several years, and then have either the vehicle Mfg or oil Mfg pay for the repairs. Hope you have another vehicle or great public transportation system to get around in the meantime.
So, the real question becomes...How comfortable are you at putting warranty coverage at risk? Risk the denial of warranty coverage and use an oil which is not approved by the vehicle Mfg. or use an oil which is on the list so the vehicle Mfg. will have a difficult time denying coverage?
For me, the decision is easy.
Originally Posted By: Fahrfuwerfuelen
For me, the decision is easy.
Me too. Contact Amsoil. Amsoil calls dealer/manufacturer. Dealer/Manufacturer honors warranty.
Never needed to do this, though. People can go through life with certain attitudes and beliefs. I don't believe, for example, because I buy or bought a certain brand of car, that I am owned by that manufacturer.
For me, the decision is easy.
Me too. Contact Amsoil. Amsoil calls dealer/manufacturer. Dealer/Manufacturer honors warranty.
Never needed to do this, though. People can go through life with certain attitudes and beliefs. I don't believe, for example, because I buy or bought a certain brand of car, that I am owned by that manufacturer.
was there a question?
Well, I'm not owned by the Mfg. I have several choices of 505.01 oils which are on VW's approved list. Certainly, the Mfg had reasons for specifying particular standards. Since I want my engine to last a long time, I prefer to use lubricants which have been tested and meet those standards.
Why don't I use it? I have never been convinced that using AMSOIL would extend the life of my engine over that of much cheaper oils. The cost per mile doesn't enter into it.
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