Silverado EV Debut Jan. 2022. ~$30,000 Equinox EV and Blazer EV Coming

[E365]

GM further ramping up the Ultium based lineup. New Silverado EV to be revealed in January at the CES show. ~$30,000 Equinox EV coming, as well as a Blazer EV

Won’t be too many more years until EVs will be cheaper to make and thus more profitable.

A very different, cool pickup​

GM's Ultium platform that will underpin its new EVs and its flexibility will allow GM to bring high-volume entries such as an all-electric Chevrolet Equinox mid-size SUV that will be priced around $30,000 and an electric Blazer SUV.

GM said it will also bring all-electric Buick SUVs, pickups from Chevrolet, GMC and Hummer, as well as Cadillac vehicles.

Reuss said GM is working on an entry-level EV priced below $30,000, but the automaker was not prepared to disclose any further details about it, yet.

"Our EV portfolio will be the best and broadest in the industry," Reuss said.

On Wednesday, GM showed a peek at the Chevrolet Silverado E, the all-electric pickup it plans to debut at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas in 2022. GM showed a picture of its all-glass roof.


The Silverado E will be built at Factory ZERO in Detroit and Hamtramck, along with the GMC Hummer EV pickup and Hummer SUV. GM is not providing exact launch dates for the Silverado E, but Reuss said it will start production after the start of Hummer SUV production in the first quarter of 2023.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/c...icle-plant-conversions-technology/6007338001/

But GM will not abandon its internal combustion engine (ICE) big-sellers any time soon, Reuss said.

“We’ll invest in our core vehicles to sustain that side of the business. Our ICE vehicles, especially our popular trucks and SUVs, continue to generate cash flow to fund the future,” Reuss said.

It’s not just the EVs that get GM's advanced software, Reuss added. GM's current gasoline lineup will get new powertrains that improve performance and lower emissions. Reuss said the next generation of GM trucks will have a 10% reduction in greenhouse gases.

 

[Cujet]

I have to call them out on the nonsense claims right away. $30K cannot possibly even get the purchaser a Chevy Bolt with more headroom or a short pickup bed on it. The Bolt, at it's 36,600 base price loses an estimated $9K per vehicle, even before the discounts and battery recalls.

VW can sell a car in the low $20K range because they have been making it for 20 years, they install the smallest engine possible, the cheapest transmission, and make the rest of it out of pressed-oatmeal and bare plastic. GM has never been able to do that. Add in a stupidly expensive battery pack, complex controller and motor, and the real world cost to build it screams $50K.

 

[E365]

^ The way I see it is the Bolt’s entire power train is pretty much bespoke to the Bolt. A lower volume vehicle, so the cost per unit is relatively high.

With the Ultium system, there will be just 3 different motors and, I believe, 1 battery module type (with different pack sizes) spread out amongst millions of Chevys, GMCs, Hummer, Buick, Honda, Acura, BrightDrops, etc. The cost per unit should go way down.

Here’s basically all the moving parts on the entire Bolt EV power train. Make a couple million of these and I’d assume they’re quite cheap.

Photo from: Weber Auto

 

[92saturnsl2]

^ The way I see it is the Bolt’s entire power train is pretty much bespoke to the Bolt. A lower volume vehicle, so the cost per unit is relatively high.

With the Ultium system, there will be just 3 different motors and, I believe, 1 battery module type (with different pack sizes) spread out amongst millions of Chevys, GMCs, Hummer, Buick, Honda, Acura, BrightDrops, etc. The cost per unit should go way down.

Here’s basically all the moving parts on the entire Bolt EV power train. Make a couple million of these and I’d assume they’re quite cheap.

View attachment 73723
Photo from: Weber Auto

Battery prices have been in freefall also. A li-ion battery costs less than 15% today of what it did 10 years ago. Once they scale production, and make EVs in huge volumes, I don't see how ICE can compete. Look how complex engines and transmissions have become in that last 5-10 years, all in the interest of emissions and fuel economy. I would love to know the per unit cost of modern DOHC V6 powertrain using 8,9,10 speed transmission-- I bet it's not exactly cheap!

 

[Danno]

Battery prices have been in freefall also. A li-ion battery costs less than 15% today of what it did 10 years ago.

Having put full EV trucks on the road 10 years ago, I would be interested in your source for the 15% cost vs 10 years ago. Thanks

 

[92saturnsl2]

Having put full EV trucks on the road 10 years ago, I would be interested in your source for the 15% cost vs 10 years ago. Thanks

Do a simple Google search for "lithium ion price history." Lots of reading that will keep you entertained for hours.

Here is one such resource:

https://www.statista.com/chart/23807/lithium-ion-battery-prices/

 

[E365]

According to the Department of Energy’s (DOE) Vehicle Technologies Office estimates, the cost of an EV lithium-ion battery pack declined 87% between 2008 and 2021 (using 2021 constant dollars). That's quite an achievement, almost an order of magnitude within some 13-years.

As of 2021 (preliminary data), the cost is $157/kWh of usable battery capacity on the pack level (100,000+ units order) and $143/kWh of total battery capacity. In 2008, it was estimated at $1,237/kWh of usable battery capacity.

https://insideevs.com/news/539002/battery-pack-costs-2008-2021/

And:
https://arstechnica.com/science/202...fallen-88-percent-over-the-last-decade/?amp=1

And this is all before global mass production has truly started. There’s probably a summary somewhere, but there’s dozens of absolutely massive EV battery plants under construction all over globe.

 

[loneryder]

Once Tesla begins making vehicles in all the new factories, do you think Tesla’s prices will go down?

 

[JeffKeryk]

Once Tesla begins making vehicles in all the new factories, do you think Tesla’s prices will go down?

Whatever the market will bear...
FYI, Tesla prices have gone up recently. The Model 3 starting price increased by about $2K.
If you order a base Model 3 Std Range Plus today, scheduled delivery is June 2022.

Demand vs supply is crazy...
I am looking forward to Giga Austin and Berlin. The new mfg lines will be state of the art, encompassing everything they have learned so far.
And use those huge molding machines for superior frame rigidity vs. the earlier cars.

When the new batteries come out, I just may be a customer...

 

[92saturnsl2]

And this is all before global mass production has truly started. There’s probably a summary somewhere, but there’s dozens of absolutely massive EV battery plants under construction all over globe.

One of which is going right in my own back yard.

Last week Ford announced they’re investing 5.something billion (with a B!) dollars into a massive battery plant in Glendale, KY, a small farming community about 25 minutes from me. Supposed to employ 5k+ people which is almost incomprehensible for this area. Glad I bought my house when I did!

 

[Danno]

Do a simple Google search for "lithium ion price history." Lots of reading that will keep you entertained for hours.

Here is one such resource:

https://www.statista.com/chart/23807/lithium-ion-battery-prices/

My follow-up question is:
If battery prices have declined so rapidly, why have Tesla prices not declined ?
Alternate questions is if battery prices have dropped so rapidly why is Tesla not in a profitable position (say 15% Profit After Tax) - excluding credits from ICE car manufacturers?

 

[UncleDave]

Another "debut" where the product follows over a year after.

GM is not providing exact launch dates for the Silverado E, but Reuss said it will start production after the start of Hummer SUV production in the first quarter of 2023.

I'm eager to see what 30K gets you.

 

[DwightFrye]

"But GM will not abandon its internal combustion engine (ICE) big-sellers any time soon, Reuss said.

“We’ll invest in our core vehicles to sustain that side of the business. Our ICE vehicles, especially our popular trucks and SUVs, continue to generate cash flow to fund the future,” Reuss said."

Herein lies the problem. GM and others, have the ICE vehicles monkey on their backs. Those vehicles are generating cash flow, but as Reuss says, GM will continue to invest in ICE production. That is a problem that Tesla doesn't have, all of their profits are going into new state of the art EV production optimized factories and R&D.

I'd also be curious if the new Silverado, Equinox and Blazer EV's are a ground up design or a kludge of an existing design just to get the EV versions on the market. Yes, there is something to be said for parts bin engineering, but it isn't the same as starting with a clean slate and having your factory and robotics set up to produce the new designs from the start.

We'll see how GM does once they get a couple thousand of those cars out into consumer's hands.

 

[PimTac]

Herein lies the problem. GM and others, have the ICE vehicles monkey on their backs. Those vehicles are generating cash flow, but as Reuss says, GM will continue to invest in ICE production. That is a problem that Tesla doesn't have, all of their profits are going into new state of the art EV production optimized factories and R&D.

It is a good problem as I see it as long as the management of funds is done right. As the transition to more EV vehicles happens that cash flow will be directed to that side. Some automakers are and have planned ahead with production lines that can handle both ICE and EV production. It’s up to GM to plan for that.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Businesses do not have unlimited resources. Business units compete for scarce resources; there are winners and losers.
A big reason for Tesla's success and best-of-breed EV technologies is that they are a pure play EV company. There is zero competition from an ICE BU.
With a single focus, products come to market quicker and are generally better at what they do. Tesla's batteries and motors are the best, even with great engineering companies like Porsche entering the market.
The ultimate goal of pure play strategy is to gain large market share.
Of course, pure play is not without risk; if the product fails or the company does not gain sufficient market share, it has no other BU to fall back on.

I wish GM luck. They are a great American company. Being everything to everybody is a tough goal to achieve.

 

[Cujet]

Just under $140 per kWh wholesale, is todays battery price. we have been mass producing them for decades now. The bottom line is, they are still very expensive.

nor is the battery the only expensive component of an EV. Controller cost is absurd. $10k is a minimum

 

[92saturnsl2]

My follow-up question is:
If battery prices have declined so rapidly, why have Tesla prices not declined ?
Alternate questions is if battery prices have dropped so rapidly why is Tesla not in a profitable position (say 15% Profit After Tax) - excluding credits from ICE car manufacturers?

Those are questions for Tesla that I can’t answer.

Auto manufacturers around the world would not be investing billions into EV / batteries if it could not be made profitable, is my take on it.

 

[JeffKeryk]

My follow-up question is:
If battery prices have declined so rapidly, why have Tesla prices not declined ?
Alternate questions is if battery prices have dropped so rapidly why is Tesla not in a profitable position (say 15% Profit After Tax) - excluding credits from ICE car manufacturers?

Batteries are expensive and therefore a huge EV cost component. Product prices are set by the market. Tesla's purpose, like every other automobile company, is to maximize the wealth of the shareholders. That's Business 101.
Tesla is very profitable. Their car margins are 26% vs an industry that is typically more like 7%. The "ICE credits" thing is old news. I am curious to hear earnings results from Q3 because of their record delivery quarter.
Tesla prices have come down significantly since we bought our '18 Model 3 in late Dec 2018. I don't remember what I paid, but it was at least $10K more than a similar car today. And the newer cars are structurally better.
Recently prices have risen. For example the cheapest Model 3 was $40K a month ago, now it is $42K. That's 5%. Thanks Elon, you butthead. Again, whether you are selling your house or car or whatever, the market speaks.

By the way... It is thought that the Chevy Bolt costs $9k more to build than selling price. If GM sells a $30K electric truck/SUV, they better make up the difference somewhere else.

 

[Job]

Becoming a believer, it could happen EVs are really the new thing. Like flash memory storage, versus compact disc, versus tape. It will get better and better until the old one is just for collectors of old stuff. The 95% recycling possibility on batteries as Ford announced in the partnership with Redwood is a big one too. It’s becoming, what’s not to like. No gas tank, no emission controls, no qualifying emissions, no ICE engine or gear box shifting for torque multiplication. This fazebook stuff about sharing every thought and opinion, like I am doing, eh it is not so great, just addicting.

 

[Kawiguy454]

Those are questions for Tesla that I can’t answer.

Auto manufacturers around the world would not be investing billions into EV / batteries if it could not be made profitable, is my take on it.

...THEY are investing billions because at some point THEY will no longer ALLOW YOU a choice. Economics will not be a part of this equation. You will pay the price for E transportation or you will CHOOSE to ride a bike or walk.