Silverado EV Debut Jan. 2022. ~$30,000 Equinox EV and Blazer EV Coming

Danno said:
My follow-up question is:
If battery prices have declined so rapidly, why have Tesla prices not declined ?
Alternate questions is if battery prices have dropped so rapidly why is Tesla not in a profitable position (say 15% Profit After Tax) - excluding credits from ICE car manufacturers?
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Ill take a stab,

Why not lower prices as the car becomes more profitable -

Because they are still expanding building new factories all over the world , AND building out charging infrastructure both of which takes an incredible amount of cash.

They dont have to lower prices to sell everything they make- why would they ?
 
92saturnsl2 said:
Those are questions for Tesla that I can’t answer.

Auto manufacturers around the world would not be investing billions into EV / batteries if it could not be made profitable, is my take on it.
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I strongly doubt EVs will be profitable for startups the first 5 years at least.
Math says conventional ICEs will need to rise in price to maintain profit levels.
 
UncleDave said:
Ill take a stab,

Why not lower prices as the car becomes more profitable -

Because they are still expanding building new factories all over the world , AND building out charging infrastructure both of which takes an incredible amount of cash.

They dont have to lower prices to sell everything they make- why would they ?
Click to expand...
Buildings don't hit the bottom line the same way that operating expenses do.
Land is kept at book value forever, and buildings are depreciated a minimum of 25 years.
Cash is almost free right now when borrowed for capital purposes such as buildings and land.
 
Kawiguy454 said:
...THEY are investing billions because at some point THEY will no longer ALLOW YOU a choice. Economics will not be a part of this equation. You will pay the price for E transportation or you will CHOOSE to ride a bike or walk.
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Is your suggestion to these companies to hold onto old technology whose market share will continue to dwindle and get left behind while other companies evolve around them? Doesn’t sound like a wise business philosophy to me…
 
Danno said:
I strongly doubt EVs will be profitable for startups the first 5 years at least.
Math says conventional ICEs will need to rise in price to maintain profit levels.
Click to expand...
In the automotive world, few startups are ever profitable in the short term— r&d, scaling manufacturing takes a huge amount of resources. Tesla is quite the unicorn with what they’ve done. Right place at the right time.
 
Danno said:
Buildings don't hit the bottom line the same way that operating expenses do.
Land is kept at book value forever, and buildings are depreciated a minimum of 25 years.
Cash is almost free right now when borrowed for capital purposes such as buildings and land.
Click to expand...



Capex is capex....you still have to pay for it regardless of how you depreciate it, and they are still building factories, and building chargers.

Sure they could always get a loan, but why if you can make it work within your own cash flow?

Tesla has already tipped their hand on their price lowering strategy and it isnt building cheaper existing version sits building a whole new lower cost car - the model 2.

Why drop the price on something you can't make enough of today?
 
P. Edward KnickKnack said:
Becoming a believer, it could happen EVs are really the new thing. what’s not to like. No gas tank, no emission controls, no qualifying emissions, no ICE engine or gear box shifting
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The big holdup remains the battery. Like you, I like every aspect of EV's. I "believe" that Elon's 4680 battery cell is the right direction for a number of reasons. Until a refined version of that type of design becomes the norm, we will be held back.

The "tabless" battery design, or some similar variant, will be the way to achieve 5x faster charging (when necessary, such as road trips). Along with slightly better energy density, and much better heat management. Until a guy like me can "go on his way" quickly, EV's will be unable to replace engines.
 
The upcoming 4680 pack is tab-less. Only moderately more range, but Its supposed to be able to sustain max charge rate for twice the time.

Cujet you tow heavy right?

I do. It's gonna be a while before the range and architecture is there for trucks,

A little SUV, sedan, sure.
 
UncleDave said:
The upcoming 4680 pack is tab-less. Only moderately more range, but Its supposed to be able to sustain max charge rate for twice the time.

Cujet you tow heavy right?

I do. It's gonna be a while before the range and architecture is there for trucks,

A little SUV, sedan, sure.
Click to expand...
I don't tow much. Maybe twice per year but when I do, it's over 6000 pounds and it's 1250 miles. Tomorrow, it's the 2011 F150 from Milford, PA to Jupiter, FL, in one day requiring only 2 fuel stops. The next tow will be Christmas break. I'll break that into two days due to the additional stops for fuel and slower speeds. But I'll be home by 2PM on the second day.

Ford's EV pickup truck is now known for having less than 100 miles towing range at 7000 pounds (my normal load of helicopter dolly and parts). Considering just how long it takes to charge a Ford, and the necessary "early" stops for charging due to location, that will make it a full 4 day trip.

I don't think EV trucks are going to meet the needs of many of us.
 
I remember Equinox being a cheap low end "SUV" from GM that's made in China and were as cheap as 17k back before pandemic and stuff, so if they make it in China with Chinese battery from CATL, local market economy of scale in China, no tariff from US, and Chinese artificially subsidize it, yes it is possible to make it $30k if you have super cheap interior and build quality that Equinox might have already.

You know, I think the biggest problem would be the tariff and pickup buyers not buying Chinese build GM. CCP may want to brag about them exporting to US and US love them, that sort of propaganda, so they may subsidize for it.

A typical $60k SUV and pickup buyer is not the target audience for this.
 
PandaBear said:
I remember Equinox being a cheap low end "SUV" from GM that's made in China and were as cheap as 17k back before pandemic and stuff, so if they make it in China with Chinese battery from CATL, local market economy of scale in China, no tariff from US, and Chinese artificially subsidize it, yes it is possible to make it $30k if you have super cheap interior and build quality that Equinox might have already.

You know, I think the biggest problem would be the tariff and pickup buyers not buying Chinese build GM. CCP may want to brag about them exporting to US and US love them, that sort of propaganda, so they may subsidize for it.

A typical $60k SUV and pickup buyer is not the target audience for this.
Click to expand...
I’m thinking only the early 3.4 liter engines were made in China, unless you have some better data. The vehicles were assembled in Canada.

C58F4367-2375-44F5-B615-AF3700737EED.png
 
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PandaBear said:
I remember Equinox being a cheap low end "SUV" from GM that's made in China and were as cheap as 17k back before pandemic and stuff, so if they make it in China with Chinese battery from CATL, local market economy of scale in China, no tariff from US, and Chinese artificially subsidize it, yes it is possible to make it $30k if you have super cheap interior and build quality that Equinox might have already.

You know, I think the biggest problem would be the tariff and pickup buyers not buying Chinese build GM. CCP may want to brag about them exporting to US and US love them, that sort of propaganda, so they may subsidize for it.

A typical $60k SUV and pickup buyer is not the target audience for this.
Click to expand...

The only vehicle GM has ever exported from China is the Buick Envision (at a rate of about 40,000/year).
 
Cujet said:
I have to call them out on the nonsense claims right away. $30K cannot possibly even get the purchaser a Chevy Bolt with more headroom or a short pickup bed on it. The Bolt, at it's 36,600 base price loses an estimated $9K per vehicle, even before the discounts and battery recalls.

VW can sell a car in the low $20K range because they have been making it for 20 years, they install the smallest engine possible, the cheapest transmission, and make the rest of it out of pressed-oatmeal and bare plastic. GM has never been able to do that. Add in a stupidly expensive battery pack, complex controller and motor, and the real world cost to build it screams $50K.
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Depends, if they ask Wu Ling to make it for them they might get a shot. Somehow I think GM would have to lobby away a lot of the creature comfort to reach 30k and maybe a real small battery and then you buy one more to connect in the trunk for upgrade / long trip.

In laptop terms it would be a Chromebook instead of a real laptop.
 
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