SIG Sauer P320 self discharges

[Hohn]

Like someone on another forum said, “Are there any other firearm manufacturers out there blaming UD’s on holsters?”

Glock was for a time. But it ended up being the particularly bad retention mechanism of the Serpa that all but assured you could put your finger on the trigger in a fast draw.

 

[jkasch]

Glock was for a time. But it ended up being the particularly bad retention mechanism of the Serpa that all but assured you could put your finger on the trigger in a fast draw.

I’ve also heard Glock foot was attributed to prior training with double action revolvers where officers were taught to put their fingers on the trigger as it came out of the holster during a fast draw. Muscle memory worked against them when switching to Glocks.

 

[Hohn]

The question that has yet to be answered by all these videos:

Will it fire if you keep your finger off the trigger?

Sticking a peg, screw, nail, or whatever into the action is not the same as pressing the trigger - or just taking up slack - I am not defending SiG, here, and I don’t own a P320, but don’t go sticking stuff into the action and expect me to believe that is “equivalent” to a finger on the trigger.

Will the gun fire (via slide manipulation or whatever) if there is nothing pressing the trigger?

I think the conventional wisdom is that a full trigger pull should always fire the gun and anything other than that should never fire the gun.

I don't think the gun will fire unless the trigger has been partially pulled because there's a secondary safety that is immediately disengaged with the first little bit of pull.

I think it's the case that this is both a serious issue and that it's being overblown. I mean, it does take two concurrent manipulations to induce the AD.

My car is capable of driving into a telephone pole, that doesn't make it a design flaw per se. Four laws and strict observance of them and a P320 owner will never have anything worse than an interesting story.


If your holster partially pulls the trigger when the gun is fully seated within it and you point the gun at yourself (or allow it to be), things can go sideways sometimes.

One aspect of this that sort of infuriates me (as a former military leader) is how the senior leadership of the Air Force is pearl clutching in outrage at SIG when clearly they did no significant testing of their own when they fielded the firearm.

If the airman gets hurt using the gun YOU GAVE HIM AND REQUIRED HIM TO CARRY, how is that 100% on SIG and not at least hugely on the military leadership charged with organizing, training, and equipping the troops?

Where is the "buck stops here"? Where's the congressional hearings on the M17/M18 adoption process and the likely backroom deals that led to it?

 

[2heeldrive]

All of these guys are manipulating the trigger and the slide to make the gun fire.

It seems to me, that is an unlikely scenario in normal use.

 

[Pablo]

All of these guys are manipulating the trigger and the slide to make the gun fire.

It seems to me, that is an unlikely scenario in normal use.

I am still in this camp.

A clean gun, chambered, full mag. Dropped 6 feet to cured concrete, 100 times.

Will it fire?

No one answered my earlier question. Trying this one.

I do not own and have no interest any more 9mm hand guns, including a Sig P320 (I have plenty of others FTR)

 

[Astro14]

I’ve also heard Glock foot was attributed to prior training with double action revolvers where officers were taught to put their fingers on the trigger as it came out of the holster during a fast draw. Muscle memory worked against them when switching to Glocks.

Yep - lighter trigger had consequences for muscle memory developed on DA triggers.

In my neighbor’s case - if you didn’t read the story - the Glock came loose in the holster while operating a vehicle, and he pressed the Glock back into the holster with the heel of his hand. The sloppy fit of the holster allowed the leather to contact the trigger, which was depressed, and the gun went off.

He was found not at fault - and his agency owned this mistake.

 

[Hohn]

Yep - lighter trigger had consequences for muscle memory developed on DA triggers.

In my neighbor’s case - if you didn’t read the story - the Glock came loose in the holster while operating a vehicle, and he pressed the Glock back into the holster with the heel of his hand. The sloppy fit of the holster allowed the leather to contact the trigger, which was depressed, and the gun went off.

He was found not at fault - and his agency owned this mistake.

Heard variation of this story many times. That's why I don't consider leather to be a proper holster material for anything striker fired. And TBQH, I'm only considering leather for like backwoods carry hand cannon type arms. And I suppose a little ankle j-frame or similar super heavy trigger on a hammer gun.

 

[ripcord]

Draw fast, re-holster slow and careful.

 

[UncleDave]

I am still in this camp.

A clean gun, chambered, full mag. Dropped 6 feet to cured concrete, 100 times.

Will it fire?

No one answered my earlier question. Trying this one.

I do not own and have no interest any more 9mm hand guns, including a Sig P320 (I have plenty of others FTR)

Is that the standardized test?
If so Id say the gun wont fire.

The gun passed both the fed and California standardized tests.

 

[Pablo]

Is that the standardized test?
If so Id say the gun wont fire.

The gun passed both the fed and California standardized tests.

No idea if anyone or group tests this, but if a gun doesn't fire with 100 drops, I wouldn't think we would need to go to 1000 drops to make it fire, or prove it is drop safe. Nothing is changing the state, gun just getting beat to heck.

 

[Robster]

I have knowledge of one case of unintended discharge by a 320. . . a uniformed police officer, wearing a duty belt including the 320 in a level 3 retention holster designed for that weapon, carrying boxes (both arms full) at a crime scene, walking across a lawn. Gun goes off and bullet strikes his leg. No hands near the gun or holster at the time of discharge. That was a few years ago and Sig is still denying fault, cop is still on light duty and has medical bills.

My old agency had Sigs in the early 2000s. . . within the first 5 years or so, multiple failures were observed on the range--failures that would take the gun completely out of any fight. According to my firearms instructor friends, about 20% of the all of the guns had the same failure, and required a part replacement to make the gun work again. Officers lost faith, Sig was sued, we ended up with Glocks, end of problems. The one (Sig) issued to me ran fine without any issues.

Sig has problems, and I won't carry one now because:

--they (Sig) act like they're in the witness protection program when confronted with issues.
--it has become a pattern of conduct for them to deny and defend obvious problems with their stuff, while letting the professionals that carry their products languish in the civil litigation system for years.
--Cops have enough to worry about these days without wondering if their gun is going to spontaneously discharge.

I'm retired, but I've been in the biz for awhile. . . .

 

[UncleDave]

No idea if anyone or group tests this, but if a gun doesn't fire with 100 drops, I wouldn't think we would need to go to 1000 drops to make it fire, or prove it is drop safe. Nothing is changing the state, gun just getting beat to heck.

One can insure a 100% chance of a no fire under any condition by simply carrying in condition 3.

 

[Pablo]

One can insure a 100% chance of a no fire under any condition by simply carrying in condition 3.

That probably is a whole different topic.

 

[Hohn]

One can insure a 100% chance of a no fire under any condition by simply carrying in condition 3.

Imagine how much safer it would be to not carry at all…

Yes, it’s another topic.

 

[UncleDave]

Imagine how much safer it would be to not carry at all…

Yes, it’s another topic.

That would be 100% safer for any bad guys.