Say Goodbye to the Camaro.

[OVERKILL]

@leadcounsel you can't see the coke-bottle rear quarter panel crease, the shape of the rear quarter windows, the pointed shape of the nose, the way the headlights and upper grille interact with each other, the long hood and short deck proportions? It isn't supposed to be an exact clone, it's supposed to be a lineage.

I'm going to have to agree with @leadcounsel here, GM did get the lines toward the rear right, but the short windows and the front end that looks like a squished trailblazer throws off any throwback look the car might have otherwise had.

 

[leadcounsel]

It doesn’t sell because it’s got a questionable interior, poor visibility, iffy modern reputation, terrible interior to exterior volume ratio, etc. I don’t really think the looks are the biggest issue.

I fully agree, I think the biggest issue is poor quality, cramped low space, and terrible visibility. Absolutely. If I were in the market for that type of car, I could overlook the "new" design.

I will also say that between generations, GM was bold in that it did almost entire novel redesigns. Each generation looks unique, for instance, the hatchback era. From round to square headlights. Etc. I don't necessarily have a issue with a "new" look.

BUT here's the caveat. Each generation of the Camaro, was obviously a Camaro. No other car, looked like a Camaro (except perhaps the 60s when Mustangs and Camaros had close resemblances). From the 70s forward they were very distinct cars.

Problem with the Camaro is that there's no real daylight in appearances between your "American throwback muscle car," and several 4 door Asian family cars/sedans. That's a real problem IMO.

I have just posted 1 picture set that shows that a newer Camaro could easily be mistaken for a Civic. Let's play a game. Camaro or Kia Optima.

Camaro or Hyundai?

 

[cheesepuffs2]

The most "iconic" Camaro is the '69.

You think the 3rd gen F-body looks more "iconic/recogizable Camaro" than the 5th and 6th gen do, that are actually inspired by the '69? Nobody would know a 3rd gen Camaro was a "Camaro" unless they read the badges on the car. I don't get your argument at all.

I think it's likely just that you're from an earlier era when  those Camaros were the ones that you grew up with, and so you can't see anything else being a "real Camaro".

 

[cheesepuffs2]

I'm going to have to agree with @leadcounsel here, GM did get the lines toward the rear right, but the short windows and the front end that looks like a squished trailblazer throws off any throwback look the car might have otherwise had.

You guys are throwing the throwback thing way out of proportion. The gen 5 and 6 Camaro are not meant to be a carbon-copy of the first gen. They have multiple design features that are familiar from the lineage of the first gen, but like the current Mustang, it isn't meant to literally replicate the car of yesterday.

Also the current Trailblazer and Blazer were inspired by the gen 6 Camaro (especially look at the Blazer's interior compared to the Camaro), which was an evolution of the gen 5 Camaro, which itself was inspired by the '69.

 

[cb_13]

Sometimes GM does better on nostalgia vehicles than others. I don’t see the 60’s Camaro styling in the most recent offerings myself.

 

[leadcounsel]

You guys are throwing the throwback thing way out of proportion. The gen 5 and 6 Camaro are not meant to be a carbon-copy of the first gen. They have multiple design features that are familiar from the lineage of the first gen,

Some fake airflow facia and a little hump on the rear fender. No. These newer gens look NOTHING like the 69 Camaro. It takes a lot of creativity to even find any real similarity.

1969 Camaro is among the most iconic cars ever designed, from an aesthetic perspective. Aggressive forward stance, big bold round headlamps that are very prominent feature, big dominating hood, staggered wheels. Very powerful masculine looking car.

My neighbors mom drives a Civic that looks like this new Camaro. It's angular, low, flat narrow lights, smilly face grill, small hood, non-staggered wheels/tires, no chrome accents anywhere, etc... I don't see Camaro, I see Honda Civic sport. I think this is the most forgettable looking Camaro, ever.

 

[JeffKeryk]

You're joking. Right?!

1966 Camaro, arguably one of the most beautiful designs for a muscle car.

Here is a typical (2018) Camaro. There is no resemblance whatsoever, and it looks like an Asian car. Literally looks nothing like anything that came from that era, at all. Doesn't look anything like any Camaro before. I absolutely hate the looks FYI.

Meanwhile over at Ford and Dodge, they got it right.

1960s Mustang:

There is no doubt, this is a Mustang:

Dodge did it best IMO.
1970 Challenger

2012 Challenger, is unmistakable as anything else.

That's a 1969 Camaro. There is not such thing as a 1966 Camaro. They debuted in Sep 1966 as a 1967 year model.
Camaros we pony cars, not muscle cars.

 

[leadcounsel]

That's a 1969 Camaro. There is not such thing as a 1966 Camaro. They debuted in Sep 1966 as a 1967 year model.
Camaros we pony cars, not muscle cars.

Obviously a typo. Please forgive me. Did you understand the point being made, or stop at the incorrect year?

 

[JeffKeryk]

Obviously a typo. Please forgive me. Did you understand the point being made, or stop at the incorrect year?

FYI, some people think the 1st year was 1966 since it debuted in late 1966. A not uncommon mistake...
I stopped at you calling the Camaro a muscle car. Mustangs, Camaros, Firebirds, Challengers, etc. are pony cars. Interestingly, the Plymouth Barracuda came out just before the Mustang making it the 1st pony car.

Muscle cars were the GTO, Chevelle SS, RoadRunner, etc. These were mid size with larger displacement high compression engines. A Chevelle without the SS option is not a muscle car, nor is the Tempest LeMans A body.
In later years, the more powerful pony cars started to be referred to as muscle cars; the purists tended to use the term pony car. Pony cars do not have to be performance oriented. A 64 Mustang with the 6 cylinder 3 speed is a pony car, just like the wonderful GTA Stangs.

 

[leadcounsel]

FYI, some people think the 1st year was 1966 since it debuted in late 1966. A not uncommon mistake...
I stopped at you calling the Camaro a muscle car. Mustangs, Camaros, Firebirds, Challengers, etc. are pony cars. Interestingly, the Plymouth Barracuda came out just before the Mustang making it the 1st pony car.

Muscle cars were the GTO, Chevelle, RoadRunner, etc. These were mid size with larger displacement high compression engines. In later years, the more powerful pony cars started to be referred to as muscle cars; the purists tended to use the term pony car. Pony cars do not have to be performance oriented. A 64 Mustang with the 6 cylinder 3 speed is a pony car, just like the wonderful GTA Stangs.

News to me. I'll just ignore these (and other) car oriented experts:

Car and Driver gives the 3rd quickest 1960s muscle car nod, to the 69 Camaro.
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g15379640/1960s-fastest-muscle-cars/?slide=2

Motortrend literally lists the Mustang and Camaro as muscle cars.
https://www.motortrend.com/features/muscle-cars-detroit-autorama/
"The standard definition used to be that a muscle car was a midsize production car (including the smaller "pony cars" like Mustangs and Camaros) with a plus-sized engine, built during the ten years between 1964 and 1973. "

Super Cars also specifically lists the Camaro and Mustang as muscle cars.
https://www.supercars.net/blog/sixties-muscle-cars/
"The Chevrolet Camaro was introduced in the North America in 1967. This was General Motors competition for the Ford Mustang. Although it was classed as a compact car (by the standards of its time) the Camaro like the mustang was classified as an intermediate sports car, or muscle car – one of the most enduring 1960s muscle cars." It also lists these two as among the best muscle cars, ever.

 

[JeffKeryk]

News to me. I'll just ignore these (and other) car oriented experts:

Good. Now you get it.

 

[OVERKILL]

You guys are throwing the throwback thing way out of proportion. The gen 5 and 6 Camaro are not meant to be a carbon-copy of the first gen. They have multiple design features that are familiar from the lineage of the first gen, but like the current Mustang, it isn't meant to literally replicate the car of yesterday.

5th gen Camaro is from the same era (2009) as the 5th gen Mustang and the retro Challenger (which is what @leadcounsel was referencing) which was the period where we were doing "throwbacks". Ford and FCA both did successful throwbacks, GM didn't. They made the windows too short and the front-end was way off.

Also the current Trailblazer and Blazer were inspired by the gen 6 Camaro (especially look at the Blazer's interior compared to the Camaro), which was an evolution of the gen 5 Camaro, which itself was inspired by the '69.

So the idea is to dilute the already obscure style of your pony car by having people associate it with a squished version of a cheap CUV? Doesn't seem like a winning strategy there, and given the title of this thread I don't think I'm offside

 

[leadcounsel]

5th gen Camaro is from the same era (2009) as the 5th gen Mustang and the retro Challenger (which is what @leadcounsel was referencing) which was the period where we were doing "throwbacks". Ford and FCA both did successful throwbacks, GM didn't. They made the windows too short and the front-end was way off.

So the idea is to dilute the already obscure style of your pony car by having people associate it with a squished version of a cheap CUV? Doesn't seem like a winning strategy there, and given the title of this thread I don't think I'm offside

Well for a cost cutting measure at least 97% of the parts are interchangeable.

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

R.I.P. Bumblebee. https://www.motorauthority.com/news...transformers-films-fetch-500000-in-group-sale

And it's a shame.. as stated, much like "Beetle" which is another nameplate that will never want to die, it may come back as some kind of car with all the functionality, feel and sound of a Norelco.

And ZL1 and COPOs were no joke... sorry to the Ford fanbois. If we are going Ford vs Chevy. ? https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/camaro-zl1 the Auto was quicker than the Stick too.

But, of course, discontinue it right when it is the best version of itself. I had a 1984 with a V6. Liked it. It was punchy.

Camaro is a French class of warship just under Corvette, or if I have that the other way around. Just like LeSabre which also makes me think of an old rusty sword. GM has some interesting names, with The French Connection to Louis Chevrolet and French flag emblems on side of cars. https://camarosofmichigan.com/camaro-got-name/

 

[PF52]

I feel dumber and dumber every time I click on this thread... As if I've been sniffing glue.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Guys talking about looks like a gaggle of whiny Secretaries - HA HA !

The different gen camaros all looked wildly different.

This ain't '69 it ain't 83, it's 2023.

Currrent car has got a great platform and a killer engine and is is relatively affordable
You want a '69 camaro, BUY a '69 Camaro. DUH!

Case closed !

 

[grampi]

Maybe you've seen different iconic Camaros. But the Gen 5 and Gen 6 look nothing like any iconic Camaros I've ever seen. Sure you might be able to pick out tiny resemblances with a lot of creativity. But most of the lines and details are just too different. It looks more like a Honda Civic sport, than any iconic Camaro. And, again, it is why the Challenger and Mustang far outsell it. GM did a poor job.

You can post all the pics you want, but the gen 6 still resembles the gen 1. If you can't see that you're blind...

 

[grampi]

I fully agree, I think the biggest issue is poor quality, cramped low space, and terrible visibility. Absolutely. If I were in the market for that type of car, I could overlook the "new" design.

I will also say that between generations, GM was bold in that it did almost entire novel redesigns. Each generation looks unique, for instance, the hatchback era. From round to square headlights. Etc. I don't necessarily have a issue with a "new" look.

BUT here's the caveat. Each generation of the Camaro, was obviously a Camaro. No other car, looked like a Camaro (except perhaps the 60s when Mustangs and Camaros had close resemblances). From the 70s forward they were very distinct cars.

Problem with the Camaro is that there's no real daylight in appearances between your "American throwback muscle car," and several 4 door Asian family cars/sedans. That's a real problem IMO.

I have just posted 1 picture set that shows that a newer Camaro could easily be mistaken for a Civic. Let's play a game. Camaro or Kia Optima.

Camaro or Hyundai?

That LT1 looks nothing like the other two cars....absolutely nothing...

 

[Pablo]

You can post all the pics you want, but the gen 6 still resembles the gen 1. If you can't see that you're blind...

Resembles? Sure.

 

[OVERKILL]

You can post all the pics you want, but the gen 6 still resembles the gen 1. If you can't see that you're blind...

How's the back after carrying all that water?