San Francisco's Chinese Bridge

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Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL


If a company out-sources, it has fewer American workers. Thus fewer tax-payers, fewer people making money that then cycle that money back into the economy. Instead, there is a money DRAIN, where the money LEAVES the country, never to return. So instead of recycling money (perhaps at a higher cost, and slightly reduced profits) by putting that money back into the pockets of American workers, you instead choose to increase profits and send the difference overseas, instead of back into the American economy.

Does that not sound like an exercise in failure to you?

If the company doesn't outsource it may become unprofitable and go out of businesws = no american jobs, no taxes, more people out of work and then all of the product that the American company made will come from overseas.

In your world there would only be American workers earning $20 + benefits. Unfortunately that paradigm is no longer possible. If G-E wishes to stay in business it must outsource so that the core company stays in the U.S and hires some people.

Readers digest version: An American company hiring some American workers is better than No American Companies hiring no American workers. [this is the exercise in failure]
 
Al, here we are talking about government spending, not a company. In times of economic distress, one of the benefits of having an intelligent government is its fiscal policy.

Why do you think there is so much infrastructure updates happening now? Through the fiscal policy, a.k.a. stimulus spending, the government is both upgrading our infrastructure and putting people to work. The added benefit of this spending is what OverKill described - the multiplier effect where 1 dollar spend is turned around in the economy resulting in the generation of $1.89 wealth in the society.

California has acted irresponsibly by missing a chance to generate such wealth simply because a lot of that money would not have benefited California but states like Michigan, Indiana or Pennsylvania.

The Federal Government should take note of this behavior. During the prior administration we would see tariffs but this current one is more of a free market ideology.
 
I'm looking at this as, hold money, either give to other citizens or give to another country. Giving China the contract causes the money to leave the country. I don't see how that's better than keeping it in this country. But perhaps I'm oversimplifying things.
 
They will bring it back as an investment. The Chinese are sophisticated and rich enough to be able to buy our companies. So far, we are too suspicious to allow them.
 
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
They will bring it back as an investment. The Chinese are sophisticated and rich enough to be able to buy our companies. So far, we are too suspicious to allow them.


Something tells me I'll never feel this benefit.
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Possibly doable with a toll system. Certainly not for free. Governments make a profit on toll bridges. In this case, government is determining the necessity of the bridge. If the original government paid for bridge didn't set up the economic environment the way it is, how necessary would this bridge be?


Then you agree that government does factor in the cost benefit ratio not only in toll make vs construction cost, but the economic activities it generated?

So you agree that government do create value that private sector do not?

Originally Posted By: Tempest
California is not a small government. The people in the Bay Area are being heavily subsidized by the rest of the State on this project. At least they aren't using Fed funds for this.


But the point still stand, that no sane private sector company would pay for its own money to build this bridge for the toll collection profit, right? You need a BIG government to generate this kind of value for the society, right?

I don't see any toll road company bidding for this.

Originally Posted By: Tempest
What is the payback on this bridge for the guy in Chula Vista who's tax dollars are going to this?


What is in for you in Las Vegas when we spend money on an aircraft carrier?

The point is, big government is the only organization that has the capability to fund and start these kind of projects that is good for the society in the overall cost benefit scale. Chula Vista may not benefit directly on this, but I doubt it pay for all the roads, water system, near by airport, Oakland docks that their day to day Walmart Chinese junk come from, etc. As a whole they also benefit from infrastructure build with tax paid in the San Francisco area.

You can penny pinch and split hair down to 1/100 of a cent, or you would probably have a better deal living in Somalia and hire your own body guard.
 
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The added benefit of this spending is what OverKill described - the multiplier effect where 1 dollar spend is turned around in the economy resulting in the generation of $1.89 wealth in the society.

Please explain to me, exactly, step by step, how this multiplier happens.

Then please explain to me how it's possible to have a 44% deficit with a return of 189% on spending.
 
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If a company out-sources, it has fewer American workers. Thus fewer tax-payers, fewer people making money that then cycle that money back into the economy.

This is your thread, talking about a government bridge, not private companies.

My post was specifically about government spending, not private sector companies. This was very clear in my post. Please read it more carefully.
 
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So you agree that government do create value that private sector do not?

I have no idea how you got that out of my post.
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I don't see any toll road company bidding for this.

Did they ever get a chance? The government controls all of the land/access involved here. Please let me know if this was ever put out to bid for a private toll bridge.
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What is in for you in Las Vegas when we spend money on an aircraft carrier?

You are comparing a mobile military craft to a fixed civilian bridge? Not even in the same ballpark.

Big government is saying that it wants this bridge, and that it will extract the money from it's citizens to build it. So yes, you need a big government to spend money on things that the market (people) don't want to pay for.

Bridges CAN promote economic activity. IF there are people on either side that want to do business with each other. The simple act of building a bridge is a COST to society. That is why I want to see figures on what the payback will be.
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
You are comparing a mobile military craft to a fixed civilian bridge? Not even in the same ballpark.

Big government is saying that it wants this bridge, and that it will extract the money from it's citizens to build it. So yes, you need a big government to spend money on things that the market (people) don't want to pay for.

Bridges CAN promote economic activity. IF there are people on either side that want to do business with each other. The simple act of building a bridge is a COST to society. That is why I want to see figures on what the payback will be.


Why not, both are big government entity that some citizen in some area do not see direct benefit of. What would an aircraft carrier, or a military base in Japan, do for you in Las Vegas?

Last time I see I do not see bridge is not a financial market trade item. I can neither buy or sell a bridge nor can I borrow or short it.

The people want this bridge as the whole area (multiple cities) already runs on it and the earthquake broke it. The point is the scale is so big that it is a state wide matter rather than a city wide matter. It is paid for mainly by local (cities and states) with sales tax and toll increase.
 
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A Day in Your Life
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Though we usually fail to notice it, government programs and policies improve our daily lives in innumerable ways.

Ask yourself this question: “What has government done for me lately?” If you are like most Americans, you will probably answer: “Not much.” Many people feel like they pay a lot in taxes but don't really get anything back from government. Surveys show that 52% of Americans believe that “government programs have not really helped me and my family.”1 But let’s see if that is really true. Let’s examine a typical day in the life of an average middle-class American and try to identify some of the ways that government improves that person’s life during that 24-hour period.

6:30 a.m. You are awakened by your clock radio. You know it is actually 6:30 because the National Institute of Standards and Technology keeps the official time. And you can listen to your favorite radio station only because the Federal Communications Commission brings organization and coherence to our vast telecommunications system. It ensures, for example, that radio stations do not overlap and that stations signals are not interfered with by the numerous other devices – cell phones, satellite television, wireless computers, etc. – whose signals crowd our nation’s airwaves.

6:35 a.m. Like 17 million other Americans, you have asthma. But as you get out of bed you notice that you are breathing freely this morning. This is thanks in part to government clean air laws that reduce the air pollution that would otherwise greatly worsen your condition.

6:38 a.m. You go into the kitchen for breakfast. You pour some water into your coffeemaker. You simply take for granted that this water is safe to drink. But in fact you count on your city water department to constantly monitor the quality of your water and to immediately take measures to correct any potential problems with this vital resource.

6:39 a.m. You flip the switch on the coffee maker. There is no short in the outlet or in the electrical line and there is no resulting fire in your house. Why? Because when your house was being built, the electrical system had to be inspected to make sure it was properly installed – a service provided by your local government. And it was installed by an electrician who was licensed by your state government to ensure his competence and your safety.

6:45 a.m. You sit down to breakfast with your family. You are having eggs – a food that brings with it the possibility of salmonella poisoning, a serious food-borne illness affecting tens of thousands of Americans every year. But the chance of you getting sick from these eggs has now been greatly reduced by a recently passed series of strict federal rules that apply to egg producers.

7:00 a.m. You go into your newly renovated bathroom – one of a number of amenities that you enjoy in your house. But the fact that you can legally own your own house is something made possible by government. Think about this: “ownership” and “private property” are not things that exist in nature. These are legal constructs: things created by laws that are passed and enforced by government. You couldn’t even buy your home without a system of commercial laws concerning contracts and a government that ensures that sales contracts are enforced. So the fact that you live in your own home is, in part, a benefit of government and the rule of law.

7:01 a.m. Government also helps you own your house in more than the legal sense. On a more practical level, the federal government actually gives you money every year to help pay for your house. It’s called a mortgage interest tax deduction and it is one of the larger benefit programs run by the federal government – amounting to over $60 billion dollars a year. You can also deduct any real estate taxes you pay. These largely overlooked subsidy programs have enabled millions of people to buy their first home or to move up to a larger home than they could afford otherwise.

7:02 a.m. Back in the bathroom. You use the toilet and flush it. Your local government then takes care of transporting this waste, treating it, and disposing of it in an environmentally responsible manner – all without a second thought by you.

7:20 a.m. As you are getting dressed, a glance outside the window shows some ominous clouds. You check the weather on your TV. All these weather forecasts are made possible by information gathered and analyzed by the National Weather Service, a government agency. Every day, on your behalf, it takes in 190,000 weather observations from surface stations, 2,700 from ships, 115,000 from aircraft, 18,000 for buoys, 250,000 from balloons, and 140 million from satellites – all just to help you plan what to wear and make sure you don’t get stuck in a snow storm. And oh yes, this agency may save your life with its hurricane and tornado warnings.

7:30 a.m. Before you leave home, you take your pills to control your high blood pressure. But how do you know that this medicine is safe or effective? Without the testing required by the Food and Drug Administration, you wouldn’t. And without the vigilance of the FDA, you could easily fall victim to unscrupulous marketers of unsafe and worthless medicines.

7:45 a.m. You put a couple of letters in your mailbox. For less than the price of a cup of coffee, a government employee will come to your house, pick up the letters, and have them delivered in a few days to someone on the other side of the country. A pretty good deal.

7:50 a.m. You and your child walk across the lawn to your car and arrive without getting dog poop on your shoes. A small but welcome achievement that is made possible now by a local law that requires people to clean up after their pets. Also, the reason your neighborhood is not plagued by stray cats and dogs is that your local Animal Control officer is on the job dealing with this constant problem.


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7:52 a.m. You help your young child into your car and you pull out of your driveway. You have now entered an experience that is improved by government in almost more ways that you can count. Driving your car is inherently dangerous. But it is made immensely safer by government laws and regulations, such as those mandating child safety seats and the use of seat belts – rules that have saved tens of thousands of lives. Driving down the street is also made much safer by a local government that enforces traffic laws and discourages people from driving too fast or driving drunk. Most state governments also minimize your risk of being run into by someone driving on bald tires or with faulty brakes by requiring regular inspections of all vehicles. And state driver’s license examinations ensure that all drivers are at least minimally competent and can actually see the road. In addition, if you are hit by another car, the potentially disastrous costs of an accident are covered because the government requires that all drivers to have auto insurance. In fact, without this extensive network of government laws and regulations covering automobiles and driving, it would be foolish for us to ever venture out on the road.

8:15 a.m. You drop your child off at day-care. It took a long search to find a good program and it is an expensive one, but it is worth it so you can feel confident that your child is in a safe, nurturing, and stimulating environment while you are at work. One of the reasons you can afford this program is the $3,000 child care tax credit you get from the federal government every year. Equally important, your child benefits from the fact that most state governments now enforce day-care requirements for group size, ratios of children per staff member, teacher training, nutrition, health, safety, and space requirements.

8:35 a.m. Your trip on the freeway is much safer due to federal restrictions on the number of hours that truck drivers can operate their vehicles without resting. Thousands of people die every year from truck-related traffic accidents, but it would be much worse without these regulations that keep sleepy truck drivers off the road.

8:55 a.m. You arrive at work and take the elevator. You just assume that the elevator is safe; and it is, thanks in part to the annual elevator inspections conducted by your state government. It is probably nothing you will appreciate until the next time the elevator breaks down with you inside, and that makes you think a bit more about the reliability of elevators.

9:00 a.m. While at work, your rights and wellbeing are constantly protected by a wide-ranging network of federal and state laws. The Occupation Safety and Health Act works to protect you from unsafe and unhealthy work conditions. Federal law protects you from workplace discrimination based on race, gender, religion, national origin, or disability. State laws may also require your employer to purchase worker’s compensation insurance so that you are covered in case you are injured on the job

Noon. For lunch you have your usual sandwich and microwaveable cup of soup. But why did you choose that particular soup? Perhaps because it was low in salt and fat. But how do you know that? Because the government requires all food packaging to have a truthful and easily readable panel on the label that supplies you with the nutritional information necessary to make a good choice. Food companies tell you what they want you to know about their products, but the Food and Drug Administration’s labeling requirements tell you what you need to know to eat in a healthy way.

How do you know the lettuce in your sandwich is not laced with unhealthy doses of pesticides? Because the Department of Agriculture has developed and is enforcing uniform standards for pesticide residue on raw foods.

Microwave ovens are potentially very dangerous machines, but you can use this one with confidence because of detailed government regulations that limit the maximum amount of radiation leakage and mandate two different safety interlocks that prevent its operation with the door ajar or open.

12:45 p.m. After lunch, you walk to a nearby ATM and get some cash out of your account – and your money is actually there. That wasn't always true during the economic depression of the 1930s when many banks failed. But your money is safe -- as it was during the recent financial and banking crisis -- because the government guarantees your deposits. In addition, those pieces of paper you put in your wallet are only worth something thanks to the federal government. Our monetary system is entirely a government creation, and the value of money is only maintained because the government regulates the money supply and protects it from counterfeiters. Quite an important service really.

1:00 p.m. Back at work you hear rumors about a new downsizing plan being talked about by management – a fairly typical occurrence in these days of heightened national and international corporate competition. You know your job is one that could be lost, but you also know that you will be eligible for state-mandated unemployment insurance should that happen. This is just another way that government helps you to cope with the economic risks and uncertainties of a modern economy.

3:00 p.m. On a break, you call your elderly mother in the hospital to check on how she is recovering from her broken hip. Thanks to Medicare, her medical expenses are covered and she does not have to worry about this becoming a financial disaster for her. Thanks to the federal Family and Medical Leave act, you will also have the right to take several days off to tend to your mother when she comes home from the hospital.


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3:10 p.m. You call to arrange for a physical therapist to work with your mother when she comes out of the hospital, and again this is paid for by Medicare. And you can be reasonably confident that she will get good therapy because your state Department of Health has a program of examining and licensing these therapists in order to ensure the quality of their work.

5:00 p.m. You leave work—thanks to the government-mandated 40-hour workweek. Labor Department regulations prevent your company from making you work past 5:00 unless it pays you overtime.

5:15 p.m. You stop at a local gas station to fill up. The very fact that this oil company offers this gas to you for sale is dependent on the existence of certain government laws. This company would not do business in your town without a legal system that assures them that you will pay for any gas you pump into your car. This economic exchange – like buying your house – would not be taking place without a system of statutory and common law that protects private property and regulates sales transactions. This simple sale is covered by Article Two of the Uniform Commercial Code – dozens of pages of laws that regulate every phase of a transaction for the sale of goods and provide remedies for problems that may arise.

5:15 p.m. You pump 15 gallons of 87 octane gas into your car and pay for it. But how do you know that you really got 15 gallons, and not 14½? And that the gas was actually 87 octane? This is only ensured by the presence of that little sticker on the gas pump that shows that a worker from your city’s Division of Weights and Measures has inspected the pump and the gas. These public employees make sure that you get what you pay for – from a pound of sliced turkey breast to a carat of diamond – by constantly testing and inspecting all commercial meters and scales, and by verifying the accuracy of checkout scanners. This is a crucial service, since more than half of the income of the average family is used to purchase necessities bought by weight or measure or scanned at a checkout station.

5:15 p.m. How do you know the price you are paying for this gasoline is a fair and competitive one? In many states, the Department of Attorney General has been responsible for finding and prosecuting cases of price manipulation and price fixing by oil companies and distributors.

5:30 p.m. As you drive home, you notice the tree-lined streets and the nice houses in your neighborhood – generally a pretty good place to live. Thanks again to government. Without zoning rules, you might have an auto body shop or a fast-food outlet move in next door. Or worse yet, a fertilizer plant or a toxic waste site. But there are no noxious smells in the air, no excessive and dangerous traffic on your street – thanks to your government. Pleasant and livable neighborhoods are only possible with extensive government planning and zoning regulation.

5:35 p.m. As you approach your house, you see your child coming down the sidewalk. The government-provided sidewalk. The sidewalk that allows your child to walk to the neighbor’s house down the street to play with a friend without the risk of being hit by a car.

5:45 p.m. You go for a jog in your local public park.

6:30 p.m. You take your family out for dinner at a local pizza restaurant. You enjoy a good meal and no one gets sick from E. coli or other food-borne illnesses. This is in large part because your local government conducts regular inspections of all food establishments to protect the health of customers.

7:30 p.m. Back at your house. You settle in for a quiet evening at home – one that is undisturbed by those annoying telemarketers calling you up to try to sell you something. This is because you have signed up with a state or federal no-call registry – a government service now enjoyed by over 60 million Americans.

8:00 p.m. You do a quick check of your e-mail – just one of the many services you enjoy over the internet every day. We all tend to think of the internet as the product of those talented and imaginative entrepreneurs in the high-tech companies. But the internet actually began with government programs that created ARPANET and later NSFNET, early computer networking systems that developed the software and networking infrastructure that form the foundations of today’s internet. The government also helped to fund research that led to web browsers like Internet Explorer and search engines like Google.

11:00 p.m. You go to bed. During your sleep, you are protected by a smoke detector that your city requires to be installed in every residence. Maybe you would have bought one of these yourself, but this law helps to ensure that everyone is protected from the dangers of fire.

4:00 a.m. You are asleep in your comfy bed. Unlike that time you stayed in a small inn in Costa Rica, where you were woken up regularly at 4 in the morning by the roosters crowing in the neighborhood. By law, no one can keep roosters in your neighborhood and so you remain in blissful slumber.

Government: The Illusion and the Reality

So goes your typical day as an average middle-class American – if you happen to be paying attention to all the different ways that government laws and programs help you lead a better life. For most of us, thinking about our day this way is a real eye-opener. We like to see ourselves as rugged individualists, leading our lives without any help from anyone, especially government. But this is an illusion. As we have just seen, the reality is completely different. We are constantly benefiting from a variety of government laws and programs. Federal, state, and local government employees are literally working around the clock to make our lives better in innumerable ways. Ironically, even those conservatives who complain that they don’t want government “interfering” in their lives depend heavily and repeatedly on government throughout their day. And the examples described earlier are only a small sample of the many ways that government programs improve our lives. They do not even include many of the most important services of government, such as preventing economic depressions, catching criminals, caring for our fragile ecosystem, dispensing justice, thwarting terrorist attacks, and eradicating deadly diseases. A detailed description of all the various ways that our lives are improved by the activities of local, state, and federal governments could easily take up hundreds of pages.

Many conservative critics of government like to portray it as a malevolent force whose extensive network of laws and regulations are increasingly invading our lives in harmful ways. They have it half right: government policies do affect our everyday lives in many ways, but these efforts are usually beneficial. For most of us, most of the time, government is not some faceless bureaucrat who is constantly ordering us around; it is more like a guardian angel: an invisible benevolent being that accompanies us throughout their day, easing us through potential difficulties and protecting us from impending harms. Admittedly, the angel analogy is a bit exaggerated, but the underlying truth is not: government has an extensive and overwhelmingly positive effect on our everyday lives.

Why We are in Denial About the Value of Government

So why are most people in denial about the beneficial roles that government plays in their lives? There are several answers. First, most Americans have become so used to the benefits of government that they simply take them for granted. Benefits that are provided reliably for long periods of time – such as clean water and a stable currency system – tend to fade into the background and to not be considered benefits at all. They disappear from our consciousness.

Our failure to notice or appreciate what government does for us also has to do with the unique and peculiar nature of many government benefits. The benefits we get from paying our taxes are usually not immediate, and they are often not particularly tangible either. They can be remote and elusive. This is easy to see if we contrast government benefits with the benefits we receive from exchanges in the marketplace. When we go to the store, we hand over our money and immediately get something very concrete in return – a candy bar, a blouse, some groceries. This kind of exchange is very satisfying; we see what we get for our money right away.
 
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Al, here we are talking about government spending, not a company.


I was merely answering Overkill's post:

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
but outsourced jobs don't create weath they extract it.
 
Show me a free-market, libertarian country. Show me ONE. Please.

Explain to me how the US's living standard jumped ever since the new deal in the 30's, which many mistakes were no doubt made. Explain to me how massive government spending during WWII created a massive boom period.

Explain to me how NASA and other gov. spending has not lead to new technology that the private sector uses.
 
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Singapore has a highly developed state capitalist mixed economy; the state owns stakes in firms that comprise perhaps 60% of the GDP through entities such as the sovereign wealth fund Temasek.[8] It has an open business environment, relatively corruption-free and transparent, stable prices, low tax rates (14.2% of GDP) compared to other developed economies,[9] and one of the highest per-capita gross domestic products (GDP) in the world. Its innovative yet steadfast form of economics that combines economic planning with free-market[10] has given it the nickname the Singapore Model. Exports, particularly in electronics and chemicals, and services provide the main source of revenue for the economy, which allows it to purchase natural resources and raw goods which it does not have.
 
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Explain to me how the US's living standard jumped ever since the new deal in the 30's, which many mistakes were no doubt made. Explain to me how massive government spending during WWII created a massive boom period.

The same points over and over, eh? Please explain to me the Roaring 20's...which came before the New Deal....which greatly extended the Great Depression.

There was a MASSIVE drop in government spending after WWII. Why wasn't there another depression after that.

Where does NASA ultimately get its resources from?

I really want you to explain how wealth is created.
 
Originally Posted By: PandaBear

Why not, both are big government entity that some citizen in some area do not see direct benefit of. What would an aircraft carrier, or a military base in Japan, do for you in Las Vegas? Constitutionally mandated military protection. Has nothing to do with a bridge in a State. You can't see a difference here?

Last time I see I do not see bridge is not a financial market trade item. I can neither buy or sell a bridge nor can I borrow or short it. It's owned by the government, so of course you can't.

The people want this bridge as the whole area (multiple cities) already runs on it and the earthquake broke it. The point is the scale is so big that it is a state wide matter rather than a city wide matter. It is paid for mainly by local (cities and states) with sales tax and toll increase.
Of course they want it. Other people are paying for it, and the State is saying it will build it. That is no guarantee that it is needed or the best solution. There are bridges and roads that go no where, does that build wealth?

Your entire argument is based on the idea that government is competent. California is in massive debt, which makes it quite clear that your assumption is incorrect.
 
Originally Posted By: buster

Explain to me how the US's living standard jumped ever since the new deal in the 30's, which many mistakes were no doubt made. Explain to me how massive government spending during WWII created a massive boom period.

Although Tempest answered it perfectly I will add that The U.S. crawled out from the depression "In Spite" of the new Deal.

Mainly though there was nowhere to go except up. The U.S. was the Sleeping giant that had abundant resources and an excess capacity in industries.

But Buster (and this you will hate) the Government stayed out of industry's way. Taxes were low, worker rights, mega regulation, and worker lawsuits were non existent.

I hope you one day read "Freedom from Fear" by David Kennedy.
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Constitutionally mandated military protection. Has nothing to do with a bridge in a State. You can't see a difference here?


But they do not mandate 2 concurrent wars and a trillion dollar budget with air craft carrier and a base in Japan. Show me where in the constitution that it mandates these waste.

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Of course they want it. Other people are paying for it, and the State is saying it will build it. That is no guarantee that it is needed or the best solution. There are bridges and roads that go no where, does that build wealth?


What other way should you use for 270,000 daily traffic? and at what volume should you define as a bridge to nowhere?

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Your entire argument is based on the idea that government is competent. California is in massive debt, which makes it quite clear that your assumption is incorrect.


The reason it is in debt is Prop 13, and the 2/3 majority vote necessary to raise tax.

So what other way to shuffle people around do you propose? It is an existing bridge that needs rebuilding because of earth quake. Not a brand new bridge to nowhere. Since you also agree that no private business wants to build a bridge (even with $5 weekday toll) and do not even want to bid on it (other than an overpriced bid), what is your suggestion?

Maybe people will find a way fly across if we lower the tax and regulation.
 
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Originally Posted By: Tempest
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If a company out-sources, it has fewer American workers. Thus fewer tax-payers, fewer people making money that then cycle that money back into the economy.

This is your thread, talking about a government bridge, not private companies.

My post was specifically about government spending, not private sector companies. This was very clear in my post. Please read it more carefully.


This is government spending on a private sector endeavour. It isn't like government went out and hired individuals to perform the bridge building. The companies hired are all private sector. The one contractor, with whom the government chose to deal, is the one that explicitly stated that they would be out-sourcing a large percentage of the job.
 
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: buster

Explain to me how the US's living standard jumped ever since the new deal in the 30's, which many mistakes were no doubt made. Explain to me how massive government spending during WWII created a massive boom period.

Although Tempest answered it perfectly I will add that The U.S. crawled out from the depression "In Spite" of the new Deal.

Mainly though there was nowhere to go except up. The U.S. was the Sleeping giant that had abundant resources and an excess capacity in industries.

But Buster (and this you will hate) the Government stayed out of industry's way. Taxes were low, worker rights, mega regulation, and worker lawsuits were non existent.

I hope you one day read "Freedom from Fear" by David Kennedy.


Al:

Two questions: Were their trade tariffs in place? Was the infrastructure in place to make out-sourcing the lucrative money-sap it is now?

The world has changed significantly since then.
 
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