San Francisco's Chinese Bridge

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I think it is wrong no matter how one tries to justify it. It is just a sad end to a sorry episode.

JOD hit the nail on the head...

Originally Posted By: JOD

I honestly don't see how anyone can thing this is a good idea for the US? This pretty much personifies the race to the bottom, IMHO.
 
you've been buying, privatising, corporatising, asset stripping everyone else' stuff for the last 20-30 years.

The next generation of profits have to come from somewhere.
 
Originally Posted By: mpvue
you can talk about it all you want, but you can't do anything about it.
the govt and big business control everything and will always get their way.

ALWAYS.


No actually - mostly the unions got their way.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
No actually - mostly the unions got their way.


No Pablo, if the union got their way it would have been $400M extra build in the US.
 
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: Pablo
No actually - mostly the unions got their way.


No Pablo, if the union got their way it would have been $400M extra build in the US.


wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
When I read the article by my calculation the $400 million was only a 6% "savings". When it's all said and done they probably won't see that savings. They'll probably feel the effects of the billions going to China though.

Well we know that the rest of the project is jacked up (non China involvement). And now you imply that $400,000,000 savings is meaningless bc the non-chinese part of the project is all f)(*&*up..making this savings mute.
Perhaps your corollary is that there should have been 99.9% Chinese involvement.

I call your attention to Panda's post:
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
It's all a big sham probably. Who knows who is getting greased and getting kick backs.


Let's see, the original contract has 1 bid with American and Japanese partner. Someone cry foul.

Then the governator decided that only San Francisco area should pay for this instead of the whole Kalifornia, stalled it for a while.

Then the governator decided that he doesn't want a suspension bridge, and want a redesign without suspension, stall it for a while, a redesign came and it isn't much cheaper and people dislike, and stall it for a while.

Finally 2 bids are in, both are more expensive than the original 1 bid we got, but Chinese is closer and the American is more.

Then there're other quality delay and construction schedule to catch up. Each day of delay is penalty for $300k and each day ahead is 300k.

And the state have to split the 1.2B cost increase with the cities because of this "it is not cheap enough we need 1 more bid and we need to redesign it for cheaper" partisan stupidity.

So a lot of money is wasted, but a lot of people are sick and tired of wasting time with construction detour and just want it over with.


Looks to me that you were content in the 80's when the U.S. auto companies were building Junk. And you would have been happy with the Japanese auto industry keeping their superior vehicles out of the country.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Al


Looks to me that you were content in the 80's when the U.S. auto companies were building Junk. And you would have been happy with the Japanese auto industry keeping their superior vehicles out of the country.


Al, with all due respect, lets try and keep this thread on topic. Japan is a first-world nation. Competition in the auto sector between two first-world nations is what it is. That is a level playing field in most respects.

Not the topic of this thread.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
I posted about this bridge in the NPR link 2 weeks ago.

Lets not forget that the Chinese bid $400,000,000 less than what the Americans could build it for. Thats a ton of cash saved whether we want to admit it or not. Lots of labor union folks unhappy about those $12 a day Chinese workers putting them out of work.

Its gonna get very ugly in the next few years the way things are going.


You sure did, but we didn't get a whole lot of discussion over it, so I've brought it up again, as per the first part of my post. I think this really needs to be talked about.


The reason why there was little discussion over it because we have come to accept that this is our fate here in the USA when it comes to the end of the manufacturing era in our country.

Maybe we should have a weekly prayer group the way things are going in our country ?
 
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
I posted about this bridge in the NPR link 2 weeks ago.

Lets not forget that the Chinese bid $400,000,000 less than what the Americans could build it for. Thats a ton of cash saved whether we want to admit it or not. Lots of labor union folks unhappy about those $12 a day Chinese workers putting them out of work.

Its gonna get very ugly in the next few years the way things are going.


You sure did, but we didn't get a whole lot of discussion over it, so I've brought it up again, as per the first part of my post. I think this really needs to be talked about.


The reason why there was little discussion over it because we have come to accept that this is our fate here in the USA when it comes to the end of the manufacturing era in our country.

Maybe we should have a weekly prayer group the way things are going in our country ?




Well, we are on seven pages this time
grin.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
When I read the article by my calculation the $400 million was only a 6% "savings". When it's all said and done they probably won't see that savings. They'll probably feel the effects of the billions going to China though.

Well we know that the rest of the project is jacked up (non China involvement). And now you imply that $400,000,000 savings is meaningless bc the non-chinese part of the project is all f)(*&*up..making this savings mute.
Perhaps your corollary is that there should have been 99.9% Chinese involvement.


You seriously think just because American and Japanese would have won the contract there will be NO delay and NO budget overrun?

Originally Posted By: Al
Looks to me that you were content in the 80's when the U.S. auto companies were building Junk. And you would have been happy with the Japanese auto industry keeping their superior vehicles out of the country.


I'll be contended if once a decision is made we stick with it instead of allowing ego manic terminator and all sorts of interest groups with no payment or pain to file lawsuit to stall it.

I don't care who build the bridge or what design it uses, I don't want to pay for project stall for nothing.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: AL
Well we know that the rest of the project is jacked up (non China involvement). And now you imply that $400,000,000 savings is meaningless bc the non-chinese part of the project is all f)(*&*up..making this savings mute.
Perhaps your corollary is that there should have been 99.9% Chinese involvement.

I'm not following you here. I'm saying they could have got this project started long ago and maybe finished using an all American contractor or at the least an American and a quality 1st world contractor combo, and probably for less money. Now they have the Chinese involvemnt for a claimed savings of $400 million. It's all just a sham. I don't believe there was a real intent to save money by contracting with the Chinese. I don't think the will be any real savings after all is said and done.

Originally Posted By: Al

Looks to me that you were content in the 80's when the U.S. auto companies were building Junk. And you would have been happy with the Japanese auto industry keeping their superior vehicles out of the country.


I don't agree with your strawman in the first place. I don't believe US automakers were making junk in the 80's and Japanese vehicles were superior. I don't believe competition from Japanese automakers is entirely the reason for improvements in vehicles.
 
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
When I read the article by my calculation the $400 million was only a 6% "savings". When it's all said and done they probably won't see that savings. They'll probably feel the effects of the billions going to China though.

Well we know that the rest of the project is jacked up (non China involvement). And now you imply that $400,000,000 savings is meaningless bc the non-chinese part of the project is all f)(*&*up..making this savings mute.
Perhaps your corollary is that there should have been 99.9% Chinese involvement.


You seriously think just because American and Japanese would have won the contract there will be NO delay and NO budget overrun?


I think he's throwing American bridge building firms in with the P-word people and project administrators. I'm blaming the latter and he is throwing the American contractors in with them. With faulty attribution and strawman any conclusion can be drawn. My argument is the chinese involvement is politics and not really about savings.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't believe US automakers were making junk in the 80's and Japanese vehicles were superior. I don't believe competition from Japanese automakers is entirely the reason for improvements in vehicles.

Good l0rd only you and the American Auto Companies believe that.
 
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't believe US automakers were making junk in the 80's and Japanese vehicles were superior. I don't believe competition from Japanese automakers is entirely the reason for improvements in vehicles.

Good l0rd only you and the American Auto Companies believe that.


I dunno, I had some really good 80's cars. Still own one of them.
 
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: Pablo
No actually - mostly the unions got their way.


No Pablo, if the union got their way it would have been $400M extra build in the US.


True enough, but the unions keep us uncompetitive.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: Pablo
No actually - mostly the unions got their way.


No Pablo, if the union got their way it would have been $400M extra build in the US.


True enough, but the unions keep us uncompetitive.


Yeah but non-union alone won't do it. Minimum wage, 40-hour work week, SS and unemployment insurance etc., all that needs to go in order to be "competitive".
 
Originally Posted By: buster
The United States is still the world's largest manufacturer btw.


Is that number shrinking or growing?
 
Originally Posted By: buster
The United States is still the world's largest manufacturer btw.

mainly because of weaponry I'd suppose...
 
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