S65 M3 engine

[Gokhan]

Luxury sports sedan challenge: Is the BMW 3 series still best?

Audi tops the list despite its lackluster handling; Cadillac has the best steering. BMW is said to be "already struggling."

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

n/m

 

[02SE]

Meanwhile, the OP seems to have lost interest in the thread...

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Luxury sports sedan challenge: Is the BMW 3 series still best?

Audi tops the list despite its lackluster handling; Cadillac has the best steering. BMW is said to be "already struggling."

From your writing it is obvious you never had an opportunity to drive these cars. Some who does comparison tests with car on winter tires in 90 degree weather with other cars on performance tires, should be banned from this business. But as usual, you do good Google searches, but I actually highly doubt you understand the text (if you read it).

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Luxury sports sedan challenge: Is the BMW 3 series still best?

Audi tops the list despite its lackluster handling; Cadillac has the best steering. BMW is said to be "already struggling."

From your writing it is obvious you never had an opportunity to drive these cars. Some who does comparison tests with car on winter tires in 90 degree weather with other cars on performance tires, should be banned from this business. But as usual, you do good Google searches, but I actually highly doubt you understand the text (if you read it).

I did drive a friend of mine's BMW and Porsche 911. They drive no different than any other car on city streets but I didn't take them to a challenge.

Yes, I saw that they stated that caveat about winter tires, but that would not change the results much (speaking of understanding the text), as where the BMW suffered most was in other issues besides handling.

BMW is not what it used to be according to all reviews I have seen in the recent years. Handling has lost its luster and the rest of the car has fallen behind the competition. Audi is the highest-rated and most refined luxury European car now, despite its focus not being on handling, and its reliability is far ahead of any other European make.

These are the facts -- like them or not.

Originally Posted by A_Harman
Rod bearings shouldn't be a maintenance item.
My suggestion for fixing the BMW M-engine rod bearing problem is to replace them with GM LS engine bearings, and to include the rest of the engine while you are doing it.

Why not include the rest of the car?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Gokhan

Originally Posted by A_Harman
Rod bearings shouldn't be a maintenance item.
My suggestion for fixing the BMW M-engine rod bearing problem is to replace them with GM LS engine bearings, and to include the rest of the engine while you are doing it.

Why not include the rest of the car?


Because the rest of the car has historically looked like it came out of a 1988 Pontiac Sunbird. GM has made some excellent platforms (such as the one the Camaro currently sits on) but have a history of wrapping them in mediocrity. I have yet to be impressed by the durability of even the Denali-level trimmed SUV's interiors, and that's been my biggest critique of their vehicles when I've reviewed them on here.

If you don't "drive" (and going from your post, you don't) then the allure of BMW's driving dynamics or those of the Camaro or current Mustang (even with its Sherman-grade window visibility) isn't something you are going to "get" and reading reviews on the Internet isn't going to get you there. That's not a slam, there are plenty of folks that don't get excited about driver-geared cockpits, steering feedback or any of that stuff, my wife being one, my father being another, but it does make it exceedingly difficult to then have a discussion about those things.

Audi, Mercedes and BMW all have their unique allure beyond simply being german marques. While some will argue that BMW has diluted their brand in an attempt to cater to a bigger cross-section of the population, they've done a reasonably decent job maintaining the integrity (for the most part) of the M-division. The hoopla regarding rod-bearing issues has existed since before this critique of them abandoning their "driver's car" heritage became a thing, so it is not something that can be ascribed to being part of that. They've had a few engines with this type of issue now going back to the 90's.

But regarding your initial query, this is an E39 M5 interior (1998-2003):

This is the interior from the first-generation Cadillac CTS-V (2004-2007):

Now, the current CTS-V is a lot nicer interior-wise, but there's a lot of shiny black plastic, which, IMHO, feels cheap. Go sit in a comparably priced Mercedes, Audi or BMW (the V starts at $88,000 US) and you don't get that feeling. But of course the V IS a performance bargain.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted by edyvw
now I might actually go for M235i instead of E90 335i next year. That platform is developed from E90, which is much better to drive than F30.

Between those two, heck yeah I'd pick the 2er (unless I needed back doors).

But aren't those both challenging to own long-term, mainly engine-wise?

 

[RooflessVW]

Gokhan, if you drove a 911 and didn't think it was special - then I don't know what you would consider special.

At 35mph or 100mph and up, I've never driven anything like my 911.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Gokhan, if you drive a 911 and didn't think it was special - then I don't know what you would consider special.

At 35mph or 100mph and up, I've never driven anything like my 911.

My friend pushed in the performance button and between the engine high revving and exhaust moaning, I couldn't get much feeling for the car. Top-notch interior and exterior though.

 

[DoubleWasp]

The 911 is best appreciated with hands on the steering wheel. Dynamite chassis and engine.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
My friend pushed in the performance button and between the engine high revving and exhaust moaning, I couldn't get much feeling for the car.

What does that even mean?

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by Gokhan
My friend pushed in the performance button and between the engine high revving and exhaust moaning, I couldn't get much feeling for the car.
What does that even mean?

In the newer models (this one was a 2015 I believe), there is a mode (activated by some sort of a hard or soft button), that makes the engine rev at all speeds and increases the sound of the mufflers a lot. Engine constantly revving loud at 5,000 RPM while driving 35 MPH and the exhaust sound deafening my ears bothered me and I couldn't concentrate much on the handling. He was thrilled by it though. On top of it, I don't like driving other people's expensive cars, with the fear of accidentally damaging them.

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by Gokhan
My friend pushed in the performance button and between the engine high revving and exhaust moaning, I couldn't get much feeling for the car.
What does that even mean?

In the newer models (this one was a 2015 I believe), there is a mode (activated by some sort of a hard or soft button), that makes the engine rev at all speeds and increases the sound of the mufflers a lot. Engine constantly revving loud at 5,000 RPM while driving 35 MPH and the exhaust sound deafening my ears bothered me and I couldn't concentrate much on the handling. He was thrilled by it though. On top of it, I don't like driving other people's expensive cars, with the fear of accidentally damaging them.


Reading car reviews written by someone that may or may not have the same desires/expectations as you, or being a passenger in a car is NOT the same as actually controlling a vehicle. All three (M6, X6 M, and S1000RR) of our BMW's have numerous selectable/configurable options that can affect how the vehicles perform.

It's funny, I have strangers tell me regularly all about how those vehicles mentioned and a few more we own, drive/ride and perform. When asked, they invariably have no experience with those specific vehicles themselves.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by 02SE
or being a passenger in a car is NOT the same as actually controlling a vehicle.

I was driving the 911 with my friend in the passenger seat.

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by 02SE
or being a passenger in a car is NOT the same as actually controlling a vehicle.

I was driving the 911 with my friend in the passenger seat.


Which model? which button and how was the "button" configured? how long did you drive it? Where did you drive it? Residential street? Twisty mountain road? Racetrack? what other performance cars have you driven extensively to compare it to?

Driving a vehicle briefly, is not the same as owning one day in and day out.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted by 02SE

It's funny, I have strangers tell me regularly all about how those vehicles mentioned and a few more we own, drive/ride and perform. When asked, they invariably have no experience with those specific vehicles themselves.


That's the BITOG motto: "Readers and riders know best."

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by 02SE
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by 02SE
or being a passenger in a car is NOT the same as actually controlling a vehicle.
I was driving the 911 with my friend in the passenger seat.
Which model? which button and how was the "button" configured? how long did you drive it? Where did you drive it? Residential street? Twisty mountain road? Racetrack? what other performance cars have you driven extensively to compare it to?

Driving a vehicle briefly, is not the same as owning one day in and day out.

It was a 2015 911 Carrera convertible. You don't seem to be reading the posts before you reply to them. I said that I didn't get to enjoy the car because of the high-revving/loud-exhaust mode and I only drove it on city streets. I'm sure it handles very well on more challenging roads.

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by 02SE
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by 02SE
or being a passenger in a car is NOT the same as actually controlling a vehicle.
I was driving the 911 with my friend in the passenger seat.
Which model? which button and how was the "button" configured? how long did you drive it? Where did you drive it? Residential street? Twisty mountain road? Racetrack? what other performance cars have you driven extensively to compare it to?

Driving a vehicle briefly, is not the same as owning one day in and day out.

You don't seem to be reading the posts before you reply to them. I said that I didn't get to enjoy the car because of the high-revving/loud-exhaust mode and I only drove it on city streets. I'm sure it handles very well on more challenging roads.


Fair enough.

You don't seem to really know the vehicles you're nevertheless critiquing.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by 02SE
Fair enough.

You don't seem to really know the vehicles you're nevertheless critiquing.

Not critiquing. Someone asked if I drove one and I answered.

I did post the review on the luxury sedans. It's by a panel, not an individual, and I trust it more if I want to choose one. Of course, nothing beats test-driving, as individual preferences vary greatly.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by 02SE

It's funny, I have strangers tell me regularly all about how those vehicles mentioned and a few more we own, drive/ride and perform. When asked, they invariably have no experience with those specific vehicles themselves.


That's the BITOG motto: "Readers and riders know best."


Times a dozen! Many performance oriented variants fail to reveal themselves at more mundane speeds.


And opinions abound, reinforced by Google searches.....