S2000 Turbo, very high oil temps

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Cujet

Cujet

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I just purchased a nice AP2 S2000 Turbo (Inline Pro, Stage 1 kit) that runs 17.5 to 19.5 pounds of boost. It's a daily driver.

These cars are known for very high oil temperatures. Some owners are seeing 300 degrees! Since it's winter, I'm not too worried about temps right now. However, come FL summer time, I will need to address the issue.

The kit removes the OEM water to oil cooler and installs a remote oil filter in it's place. Owners of turbo S2000's generally run 10W-30 Amsoil or 5W-40 TDT to keep the VTEC system properly operational.

Current fill is 10W-30 Amsoil and I'll use TDT next time. Unless you guys have a better suggestion.....

Certainly, if there were ever a car that could use Group IV synthetic, this is it. The Turbo is a GT 3078.
 
Did they install an air-to-oil cooler in place of the original water-to-oil cooler? (He asks hopefully.) If there is no oil cooler on it, install one.
 
x2 on the s2ki forum. Those guys know more about this particular car then most of us here combined.

Looking at it from an obvious point of view though... it sounds like a heavy duty oil cooler is needed.

Also, make sure the engine's cooling system is up to the task. A bigger radiator, possibly stronger fans, and a water / coolant mix of 70/30 with maybe Redline's Water Wetter additive added into the mix, to help keep things cool.

Overheating is your worst nightmare and will be the sole reason if things start breaking. You can prevent this by tackling the problem areas NOW, while everything is still running smoothly.

Nice car. I had an 05 S2000 a few years back and regret selling it to this day.
 
Keeping the oil cool and using an appropriately light oil is a lot better than running a heavy 30 or 40 grade oil to deal with high oil temp's.

Also if you haven't installed an oil pressure gauge now's the time to do so.
IIRC the recommended S2000 OP is 50 psi at 3,000 rpm with an 85 psi by-pass setting. Any light 5W-30 syn' should allow to easily maintain that and stay out of by-pass at high rev's at normal operating temp's.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Did they install an air-to-oil cooler in place of the original water-to-oil cooler? (He asks hopefully.) If there is no oil cooler on it, install one.


Some of the guys seem to "remote mount" the OEM water-to-oil cooler on the remote filter mount. Unfortunately, I don't have the OEM oil cooler, and the turbo is using the water lines that used to be plumbed to it.

Some people suggest that an oil cooler is not necessary at all. However, most of those folks don't live in South FL.

I'll just cobble something up... An oil cooler is a simple matter. And, I have a few in the attic.
 
I personally don't like oil to water heat exchangers as their Rube Goldberg complexity adds too many failure points as well as dumping extra heat into a many times marginal radiator (track use only).

A simple and compact flat plate cooler can easily be added and with careful installation can be very reliable...
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I personally don't like oil to water heat exchangers as their Rube Goldberg complexity adds too many failure points as well as dumping extra heat into a many times marginal radiator (track use only).

A simple and compact flat plate cooler can easily be added and with careful installation can be very reliable...


An water/oil cooler is way more efficient than an air/oil. You'll need an awfully big air/oil to get the same heat removal rate.

Removal of the stock water/oil cooler is a mistake. Add an air/oil after for more cooling like is done on transmission coolers.
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I personally don't like oil to water heat exchangers as their Rube Goldberg complexity adds too many failure points as well as dumping extra heat into a many times marginal radiator (track use only).

A simple and compact flat plate cooler can easily be added and with careful installation can be very reliable...


An water/oil cooler is way more efficient than an air/oil. You'll need an awfully big air/oil to get the same heat removal rate.

Removal of the stock water/oil cooler is a mistake. Add an air/oil after for more cooling like is done on transmission coolers.


Of course it's more efficient, but it puts the heat into the cooling system which may already be marginal for real road course work. For many new cars it's a real issue.

A small flat plate cooler can be extremely effective and have FAR FEWER points to fail. This is yet another advantage for the typical DIY weekend warrior.

Cujet is an aircraft mechanic. I guarantee you he'll "cobble something up" that will be impressive.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I personally don't like oil to water heat exchangers as their Rube Goldberg complexity adds too many failure points as well as dumping extra heat into a many times marginal radiator (track use only).

A simple and compact flat plate cooler can easily be added and with careful installation can be very reliable...


An water/oil cooler is way more efficient than an air/oil. You'll need an awfully big air/oil to get the same heat removal rate.

Removal of the stock water/oil cooler is a mistake. Add an air/oil after for more cooling like is done on transmission coolers.


Of course it's more efficient, but it puts the heat into the cooling system which may already be marginal for real road course work. For many new cars it's a real issue.



The cooling system will definitely be marginal given that a turbocharger has been added, and the engine is rejecting a lot more heat already.
 
^^^ Indeed, and the radiator was never designed for a turbocharged engine or it would likely be larger. Now the Turbo has added WAY more heat to the system.

An oil to water exchanger, despite its amazing compact size, may not be the correct answer here!
 
at 300F, your engine oil is going to be oxidatively shot VERY quickly. Every 20F above the rated oil life temp (typically 180-210F) cuts the life in half.

Your car shouldn't have any oil or water temps above 240-250F in the worst of conditions. Not only is it affecting your oil, but that high of heat is not good for long term strength in a lot of the alloys used in engines.

Not only that, but your bearings must be SCORCHING hot. I wouldn't put anything lighter than a 5w40 (15w in the summer). Also, run diesel oil since the higher detergency will help deal with the heavier carbon load turbo's typically produce. Rotella T6 (5w40) is my go to. I drive a turbo'd car in Florida as well.


You're #1 priority should be oil cooling. Like I said previously, your oil temps shouldn't be that [censored] high. It's bad for a LOT of components, not just your engine oil.

Remember - car radiators are ALWAYS undersized. And additional heat loading in the engine will make them horribly ineffective. Radiators are typically sized to keep the car cool when cruising a few miles per hour. We could go into the heat transfer physics behind it all, but long story short - you need moar coolin!

Source - Mech. engineer w/ SAE tribology experience.
 
I have a friend with an S2000 racecar. He's obviously not turbo but what he's found through tuning and tweaking on the dyno is the F22C1 operates best (in naturally aspirated form where every HP matters) at exactly 190 degrees F and loses 2-3HP every 10 degrees above or below so he has a flat plate oil cooler on his NA engine. With a turbo setup you're obviously making your power in a different manner and you've got so much you won't be missing any however getting that temp down significantly can only help.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: gofast182
I have a friend with an S2000 racecar. He's obviously not turbo but what he's found through tuning and tweaking on the dyno is the F22C1 operates best (in naturally aspirated form where every HP matters) at exactly 190 degrees F and loses 2-3HP every 10 degrees above or below so he has a flat plate oil cooler on his NA engine. With a turbo setup you're obviously making your power in a different manner and you've got so much you won't be missing any however getting that temp down significantly can only help.


This is quite similar to the dyno research done on my car in the 6.1 community. For us the cars computer pulls significant timing above 185*. Most cars do the same or similar by retarding timing at higher temps. Since we have a radiator roughly the size of Michigan you simply fit a proper thermostat to alter the coolant temp and the result is a huge increase in response and a small increase in real power at the track.
 
Thanks for the input. As I mentioned, I do have a couple or 3 oil coolers sitting around. No problem there. At the moment, I'm taking it easy on the car and it's reasonably cool outside.

Recommendations from the S2000 turbo guys on oil type range from standard 10W-30 M1 to 5W-40 TDT. Nobody seemed to suggest Redline ester based oils, or any other Group IV. Interestingly, these guys are not having the best of luck.

Having operated a high boost Turbo Miata for 10 years, and being active on the Miata forums, the Miata guys were, strangely, a bit more knowledgeable on "what actually works". The Honda group seems to be populated with 20 something kids. They can do the computer tuning no prob, but when it comes to understanding the basics of operation, fewer of them are super sharp.

For now, I've turned the boost down to 15 pounds (from 17.5) and I'm watching the H2O temps carefully.

Interestingly, this car was built by the guys at the "Inline Pro" shop and much of the work they did is quite nice. Needs some tweaking, but overall, it's a nice driving car.

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The tune is exactly what would concern me.

Does the actual PCM get tweaked or is there an add on box for fuel enrichment, etc.?

EGT's can be a big indicator too...
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
The tune is exactly what would concern me.

Does the actual PCM get tweaked or is there an add on box for fuel enrichment, etc.?

EGT's can be a big indicator too...


AGM stand alone engine management system. Huge injectors, big fuel pump, bigger fuel rail, higher fuel pressure, wideband O2. It's all working properly.

On the S2000 forums, the "race" forum is the place to find answers. Plenty of spun bearings, oil starvation, 270 degree oil temps and so on. Clearly these guys push beyond the limits. One thing seems clear, thin synthetics don't cut it.
 
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