S2000 Turbo, very high oil temps
- Thread starter Cujet
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The F2C1 is one of the best engineered, most durable engines going but it is not immune to abuse. Not only can they take tremendous power on the stock block and head, for most normal cars/drivers they'll spend plenty of time spinning happily at 8k RPM and make it to 200k miles easily but once people move the red line up to 8500+ and/or don't have a turbo set up properly there's trouble waiting.
Out of curiosity, how many miles are on the turbo setup? Even though it's cool outside right now I wouldn't be able to sit on it knowing the temps were running that high.
As a side note, in case you didn't know this little idiosyncrasy of the S, once you hit 4 bars of fuel, get gas immediately. They go very quickly after that
Out of curiosity, how many miles are on the turbo setup? Even though it's cool outside right now I wouldn't be able to sit on it knowing the temps were running that high.
As a side note, in case you didn't know this little idiosyncrasy of the S, once you hit 4 bars of fuel, get gas immediately. They go very quickly after that
Originally Posted By: gofast182
The F2C1 is one of the best engineered, most durable engines going but it is not immune to abuse. ..but once people move the red line up to 8500+ and/or don't have a turbo set up properly there's trouble waiting.
Out of curiosity, how many miles are on the turbo setup?
As a side note, in case you didn't know this little idiosyncrasy of the S, once you hit 4 bars of fuel, get gas immediately. They go very quickly after that
My car has the F22C1 engine, 2.2L (did you just mistype? )
The AEM stand alone engine management computer has the fuel cutoff set at 8500, and that is higher than the stock 8200RPM. From what I understand the head is very much the same and is capable of 10,700 RPM before valve float sets in.
The piston speeds at 8500 are identical to the F20C engine with it's 9000 RPM redline. Possibly that is why many tuners go there. I'm certainly not disputing the caution against using the higher redline. The tuners have found that both size engines make excellent torque up to the 8500RPM point, where it starts to fall off.
I probably should consider better connecting rods and dedicated 9 to 1 pistons.
This turbo setup has somewhere around 14,000 miles on it.
Yes, I've discovered the fuel indication is a bit weird. However, it's a 13+ gallon tank and when it shows completely empty I can only get 10 gal into it.
The F2C1 is one of the best engineered, most durable engines going but it is not immune to abuse. ..but once people move the red line up to 8500+ and/or don't have a turbo set up properly there's trouble waiting.
Out of curiosity, how many miles are on the turbo setup?
As a side note, in case you didn't know this little idiosyncrasy of the S, once you hit 4 bars of fuel, get gas immediately. They go very quickly after that
My car has the F22C1 engine, 2.2L (did you just mistype? )
The AEM stand alone engine management computer has the fuel cutoff set at 8500, and that is higher than the stock 8200RPM. From what I understand the head is very much the same and is capable of 10,700 RPM before valve float sets in.
The piston speeds at 8500 are identical to the F20C engine with it's 9000 RPM redline. Possibly that is why many tuners go there. I'm certainly not disputing the caution against using the higher redline. The tuners have found that both size engines make excellent torque up to the 8500RPM point, where it starts to fall off.
I probably should consider better connecting rods and dedicated 9 to 1 pistons.
This turbo setup has somewhere around 14,000 miles on it.
Yes, I've discovered the fuel indication is a bit weird. However, it's a 13+ gallon tank and when it shows completely empty I can only get 10 gal into it.
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: gofast182
The F2C1 is one of the best engineered, most durable engines going but it is not immune to abuse. ..but once people move the red line up to 8500+ and/or don't have a turbo set up properly there's trouble waiting.
Out of curiosity, how many miles are on the turbo setup?
As a side note, in case you didn't know this little idiosyncrasy of the S, once you hit 4 bars of fuel, get gas immediately. They go very quickly after that
My car has the F22C1 engine, 2.2L (did you just mistype? )
The AEM stand alone engine management computer has the fuel cutoff set at 8500, and that is higher than the stock 8200RPM. From what I understand the head is very much the same and is capable of 10,700 RPM before valve float sets in.
The piston speeds at 8500 are identical to the F20C engine with it's 9000 RPM redline. Possibly that is why many tuners go there. I'm certainly not disputing the caution against using the higher redline. The tuners have found that both size engines make excellent torque up to the 8500RPM point, where it starts to fall off.
I probably should consider better connecting rods and dedicated 9 to 1 pistons.
This turbo setup has somewhere around 14,000 miles on it.
Yes, I've discovered the fuel indication is a bit weird. However, it's a 13+ gallon tank and when it shows completely empty I can only get 10 gal into it.
Raising the redline a few hundred rpm is unlikely to do any harm as they are set conservatively by the warranty folks.
And the fuel thing is funny to me, as my SRT is the ONLY car or truck I have ever owned that has a DEAD ACCURATE gauge in it. When it says empty you had better be paying attention to the miles left to empty display because it's not kidding!
Originally Posted By: gofast182
The F2C1 is one of the best engineered, most durable engines going but it is not immune to abuse. ..but once people move the red line up to 8500+ and/or don't have a turbo set up properly there's trouble waiting.
Out of curiosity, how many miles are on the turbo setup?
As a side note, in case you didn't know this little idiosyncrasy of the S, once you hit 4 bars of fuel, get gas immediately. They go very quickly after that
My car has the F22C1 engine, 2.2L (did you just mistype? )
The AEM stand alone engine management computer has the fuel cutoff set at 8500, and that is higher than the stock 8200RPM. From what I understand the head is very much the same and is capable of 10,700 RPM before valve float sets in.
The piston speeds at 8500 are identical to the F20C engine with it's 9000 RPM redline. Possibly that is why many tuners go there. I'm certainly not disputing the caution against using the higher redline. The tuners have found that both size engines make excellent torque up to the 8500RPM point, where it starts to fall off.
I probably should consider better connecting rods and dedicated 9 to 1 pistons.
This turbo setup has somewhere around 14,000 miles on it.
Yes, I've discovered the fuel indication is a bit weird. However, it's a 13+ gallon tank and when it shows completely empty I can only get 10 gal into it.
Raising the redline a few hundred rpm is unlikely to do any harm as they are set conservatively by the warranty folks.
And the fuel thing is funny to me, as my SRT is the ONLY car or truck I have ever owned that has a DEAD ACCURATE gauge in it. When it says empty you had better be paying attention to the miles left to empty display because it's not kidding!
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: gofast182
The F2C1 is one of the best engineered, most durable engines going but it is not immune to abuse. ..but once people move the red line up to 8500+ and/or don't have a turbo set up properly there's trouble waiting.
Out of curiosity, how many miles are on the turbo setup?
As a side note, in case you didn't know this little idiosyncrasy of the S, once you hit 4 bars of fuel, get gas immediately. They go very quickly after that
My car has the F22C1 engine, 2.2L (did you just mistype? )
The AEM stand alone engine management computer has the fuel cutoff set at 8500, and that is higher than the stock 8200RPM. From what I understand the head is very much the same and is capable of 10,700 RPM before valve float sets in.
The piston speeds at 8500 are identical to the F20C engine with it's 9000 RPM redline. Possibly that is why many tuners go there. I'm certainly not disputing the caution against using the higher redline. The tuners have found that both size engines make excellent torque up to the 8500RPM point, where it starts to fall off.
I probably should consider better connecting rods and dedicated 9 to 1 pistons.
This turbo setup has somewhere around 14,000 miles on it.
Yes, I've discovered the fuel indication is a bit weird. However, it's a 13+ gallon tank and when it shows completely empty I can only get 10 gal into it.
Yes, of course I mistyped, F22C1, 2.2L.
Few points of interest...
My buddy with an S2000 race car blew an engine last year and he was running 8600 RPM redline. Yes 8000 is somewhat conservative from the factory but having been around these cars/owners for a while I'd caution strongly against going past 8500 and actually I'd absolutely run even lower than that given the added stresses of your setup.
Heads are similar but not exactly the same and most of the increase in displacement is due to stroke. While both engines are very extremely right up to redline, the F22 tends to make better power and torque which is why you'll probably never see an S2000 *racing* with an F20 even if the chassis predates it.
Third, F22C1's are known to have exhaust valves on the tight side of Honda's tolerance so a valve adjustment is something I'd do/have done soon just to be safe and keep everything operating at its best. If a couple of your valves are tight, as mine were, you'll get an improved top-end.
Originally Posted By: gofast182
The F2C1 is one of the best engineered, most durable engines going but it is not immune to abuse. ..but once people move the red line up to 8500+ and/or don't have a turbo set up properly there's trouble waiting.
Out of curiosity, how many miles are on the turbo setup?
As a side note, in case you didn't know this little idiosyncrasy of the S, once you hit 4 bars of fuel, get gas immediately. They go very quickly after that
My car has the F22C1 engine, 2.2L (did you just mistype? )
The AEM stand alone engine management computer has the fuel cutoff set at 8500, and that is higher than the stock 8200RPM. From what I understand the head is very much the same and is capable of 10,700 RPM before valve float sets in.
The piston speeds at 8500 are identical to the F20C engine with it's 9000 RPM redline. Possibly that is why many tuners go there. I'm certainly not disputing the caution against using the higher redline. The tuners have found that both size engines make excellent torque up to the 8500RPM point, where it starts to fall off.
I probably should consider better connecting rods and dedicated 9 to 1 pistons.
This turbo setup has somewhere around 14,000 miles on it.
Yes, I've discovered the fuel indication is a bit weird. However, it's a 13+ gallon tank and when it shows completely empty I can only get 10 gal into it.
Yes, of course I mistyped, F22C1, 2.2L.
Few points of interest...
My buddy with an S2000 race car blew an engine last year and he was running 8600 RPM redline. Yes 8000 is somewhat conservative from the factory but having been around these cars/owners for a while I'd caution strongly against going past 8500 and actually I'd absolutely run even lower than that given the added stresses of your setup.
Heads are similar but not exactly the same and most of the increase in displacement is due to stroke. While both engines are very extremely right up to redline, the F22 tends to make better power and torque which is why you'll probably never see an S2000 *racing* with an F20 even if the chassis predates it.
Third, F22C1's are known to have exhaust valves on the tight side of Honda's tolerance so a valve adjustment is something I'd do/have done soon just to be safe and keep everything operating at its best. If a couple of your valves are tight, as mine were, you'll get an improved top-end.
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Thanks for the input. As I mentioned, I do have a couple or 3 oil coolers sitting around. No problem there. At the moment, I'm taking it easy on the car and it's reasonably cool outside.
Recommendations from the S2000 turbo guys on oil type range from standard 10W-30 M1 to 5W-40 TDT. Nobody seemed to suggest Redline ester based oils, or any other Group IV. Interestingly, these guys are not having the best of luck.
Having operated a high boost Turbo Miata for 10 years, and being active on the Miata forums, the Miata guys were, strangely, a bit more knowledgeable on "what actually works". The Honda group seems to be populated with 20 something kids. They can do the computer tuning no prob, but when it comes to understanding the basics of operation, fewer of them are super sharp.
For now, I've turned the boost down to 15 pounds (from 17.5) and I'm watching the H2O temps carefully.
Interestingly, this car was built by the guys at the "Inline Pro" shop and much of the work they did is quite nice. Needs some tweaking, but overall, it's a nice driving car.
good looking car!
Thanks for the input. As I mentioned, I do have a couple or 3 oil coolers sitting around. No problem there. At the moment, I'm taking it easy on the car and it's reasonably cool outside.
Recommendations from the S2000 turbo guys on oil type range from standard 10W-30 M1 to 5W-40 TDT. Nobody seemed to suggest Redline ester based oils, or any other Group IV. Interestingly, these guys are not having the best of luck.
Having operated a high boost Turbo Miata for 10 years, and being active on the Miata forums, the Miata guys were, strangely, a bit more knowledgeable on "what actually works". The Honda group seems to be populated with 20 something kids. They can do the computer tuning no prob, but when it comes to understanding the basics of operation, fewer of them are super sharp.
For now, I've turned the boost down to 15 pounds (from 17.5) and I'm watching the H2O temps carefully.
Interestingly, this car was built by the guys at the "Inline Pro" shop and much of the work they did is quite nice. Needs some tweaking, but overall, it's a nice driving car.
good looking car!
Originally Posted By: gofast182
My buddy with an S2000 race car blew an engine last year and he was running 8600 RPM redline.
F22C1's are known to have exhaust valves on the tight side of Honda's tolerance so a valve adjustment is something I'd do
How did his engine let go? Some people downshift from 5th to 2nd and overrev the engine, leading to broken connecting rods. But, from what I understand, short of a blown head gasket (a real problem on 3mm head gaskets like mine) these engines can make up to 700HP with a proper setup (although lifespan is short at that level) 500HP seems quite possible.
I'll do the valve adjustment next week. Looks like a reasonably simple task. Probably do plugs at the same time.
I did change the oil to M1, TDT. The previous oil was Amsoil 10W-30, according to the previous owner. I'm sending it to Blackstone tomorrow. We shall see...
My buddy with an S2000 race car blew an engine last year and he was running 8600 RPM redline.
F22C1's are known to have exhaust valves on the tight side of Honda's tolerance so a valve adjustment is something I'd do
How did his engine let go? Some people downshift from 5th to 2nd and overrev the engine, leading to broken connecting rods. But, from what I understand, short of a blown head gasket (a real problem on 3mm head gaskets like mine) these engines can make up to 700HP with a proper setup (although lifespan is short at that level) 500HP seems quite possible.
I'll do the valve adjustment next week. Looks like a reasonably simple task. Probably do plugs at the same time.
I did change the oil to M1, TDT. The previous oil was Amsoil 10W-30, according to the previous owner. I'm sending it to Blackstone tomorrow. We shall see...
I've got another buddy who makes 705WHP on race gas but he's an S2000 mechanic so he can give the car more/better attention than most people do. Many of the boosted guys with properly sorted setups make 480-525HP with no issues at all.
My race car buddy's engine threw a rod in cyl. 4 (closest to the firewall), it wasn't a mis-shift. Remember your point about piston speeds @ 8500, that he was running 8600, and then consider when he races he's running 7000-8600 constantly for 45 minutes at a time twice per weekend (not just merging or pulling away from a stoplight for a few seconds). That particular engine was run like that for two and a half race seasons before this happened. The engine he finished last season with is tuned to run at 8400 with no penalty in speed; he was able to set the track record for Honda Challenge 1 at Watkins Glen with it last fall.
My race car buddy's engine threw a rod in cyl. 4 (closest to the firewall), it wasn't a mis-shift. Remember your point about piston speeds @ 8500, that he was running 8600, and then consider when he races he's running 7000-8600 constantly for 45 minutes at a time twice per weekend (not just merging or pulling away from a stoplight for a few seconds). That particular engine was run like that for two and a half race seasons before this happened. The engine he finished last season with is tuned to run at 8400 with no penalty in speed; he was able to set the track record for Honda Challenge 1 at Watkins Glen with it last fall.
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