Retiring early... Geographic arbitrage

[alarmguy]

I will chime in because I just retired.

Reading some of these posts lead me to think that some of the people that are looking to retire do not have social security benefits or any type of pension plans.

If you don't have social security insurance benefit or retirement pension plan then it probably won't matter where you retire.

I will say this if you retire in another country and denounce your citizenship your benefits will be severed.

If you do stay a citizen you have to come back to the US every 6 months for 30 days to claim your residency.

...

Not here to offend anyone just my two cents do your homework before you think about leaving the good old US of A.

This isn't true. But what is true is people need to do their "homework" on any move out of the country. Best place is the SSA and IRS. Not BITOG as much as we all try to help.

"There is no time limit on how long a person can live outside the country and receive benefits. They will continue indefinitely while proof of life documents are signed and returned. Known formally as the report to the United States Social Security Administration, Form SSA-7162 is two pages long and asks about changes to a person’s residency and marital status, among other things. Depending on a person’s age and country of residence, the forms may be mailed annually or biannually."

https://money.usnews.com/money/reti...utside-the-u-s-without-losing-social-security

Another one as an example to of course research what you are doing -
In fact this article states to plan staying out of the USA for a year if you want to be able to exclude $100,000 of foreign income from your US tax return. You also want to maintain a US bank account, as an example in the article people who did not, took extra effort to get stimulus checks during the virus issue *LOL*

https://www.forbes.com/councils/for...zen-five-things-to-do-before-making-the-jump/

 

[alarmguy]

2nd Amendment worthless in WA state. The ability to speak and write truly freely. The unequal application of justice

It's funny, still we are better than many countries, and most likely, and in fact, if I were to retire in Italy, I could not bring my guns and maybe I could only buy a shotgun there, if even that.

But you would be eating really good food then again, high carb diets there.
My grandparents immigrated through ellis island from a small Italian mountain village in Italy. Forgot the name, always have to ask my sister but I actually "drove" through it on google maps. Some family members have visited over the decades and even contacted members of the family tree.

Those were the days, came here with their suit cases and shirts on their backs. Made an incredible life here with a large family of which some quite affluent, some a while back known publicly for their public service in a certain area of the US. My grandparents started off with nothing handed to them, made the American dream come true through hard work and that followed down through generations.

 

[doitmyself]

I have nothing to contribute to this thread other than I am choosing the road less traveled. My finances are in line to retire, but at age 68.5 I choose to continue working due to some very unique circumstances. I constantly have to defend my choice. In my unique situation, I think my lifestyle is healthier for my wife and I (career passion/rewards, activities, challenges, social interaction, etc.). We are doing some retirement type things already (traveling, grandkids, etc.). I decided to live without regrets regarding my choices, i.e., "so an so worked until 70, retired and died 6 months later". Phooey on that. Anyone could keel over today. Live mindful regardless of working or retired. Don't live miserably for a number of years because your only goal is the future retirement to Shangri-La. Life might pass you by.

 

[alarmguy]

I have nothing to contribute to this thread other than I am choosing the road less traveled. My finances are in line to retire, but at age 68 I choose to continue working due to some very unique circumstances. I constantly have to defend my choice. In my unique situation, I think my career is healthy for me and my wife (career passion/rewards, activities, challenges, social interaction, etc.). ...

I think this is great, can't imagine someone making you feel you have to defend your choice. Living to me is following your passion. If that is what makes you happy that is great. (you can tell my position on previous posts in here too) Good for you.

 

[nickaluch]

2nd Amendment worthless in WA state. The ability to speak and write truly freely. The unequal application of justice

It's funny, still we are better than many countries, and most likely, and in fact, if I were to retire in Italy, I could not bring my guns and maybe I could only buy a shotgun there, if even that.

Move to a state that's more gun friendly if that important and you do have the freedom of speech you haven't lost that

 

[Pablo]

Move to a state that's more gun friendly if that important and you do have the freedom of speech you haven't lost that

1) Proves my point. Have to move to exercise a RIGHT?
2) Congress has passed no law, BUT are we really free to talk about some subjects.....some examples would be the make up of the criminal population, or the mean intelligence? Certain other things?

 

[Astro14]

I think the problem with geographic arbitrage is that you don’t consider what will happen to you through the aging process.

Everyone assumes that their health, and their need for family, and other forms of support, will remain static. You’re healthy now, so that’s gonna continue, right?

If you move to a country where you don’t speak the primary language, and where the first world medical care does not exist, then you are running some significant risks.

That lifespan that you anticipated, living in the US, could very easily end up much shorter as a result of not being able to access first world healthcare.

Sure, your money goes farther in all of the potential venues you brought up. Of what good is that, if you die 10 years before you would’ve back home?

 

[mikeduf]

This isn't true. But what is true is people need to do their "homework" on any move out of the country. Best place is the SSA and IRS. Not BITOG as much as we all try to help.

"There is no time limit on how long a person can live outside the country and receive benefits. They will continue indefinitely while proof of life documents are signed and returned. Known formally as the report to the United States Social Security Administration, Form SSA-7162 is two pages long and asks about changes to a person’s residency and marital status, among other things. Depending on a person’s age and country of residence, the forms may be mailed annually or biannually."

https://money.usnews.com/money/reti...utside-the-u-s-without-losing-social-security

Another one as an example to of course research what you are doing -
In fact this article states to plan staying out of the USA for a year if you want to be able to exclude $100,000 of foreign income from your US tax return. You also want to maintain a US bank account, as an example in the article people who did not, took extra effort to get stimulus checks during the virus issue *LOL*

https://www.forbes.com/councils/for...zen-five-things-to-do-before-making-the-jump/

Every document I have read for a US national leaving the country especially Italy. you can only stay for a 90-day tourist Visa or an extended 6-month Visa.

Of which a 6-month Visa extended has to have a form to be filled out and approved before you attempt to stay for 6 months.

Also after the 6 months in Italy or any other European country you have to return to the USA to retain your residency.

This has been the rule for at least the last two years since I have searched for Extended Stays in Italy.

6 months is all we get legally. But of course you can come back for 30 days, fill out the paperwork for another 6 month extended visa and return to Italy.

 

[mikeduf]

This isn't true. But what is true is people need to do their "homework" on any move out of the country. Best place is the SSA and IRS. Not BITOG as much as we all try to help.

"There is no time limit on how long a person can live outside the country and receive benefits. They will continue indefinitely while proof of life documents are signed and returned. Known formally as the report to the United States Social Security Administration, Form SSA-7162 is two pages long and asks about changes to a person’s residency and marital status, among other things. Depending on a person’s age and country of residence, the forms may be mailed annually or biannually."

https://money.usnews.com/money/reti...utside-the-u-s-without-losing-social-security

Another one as an example to of course research what you are doing -
In fact this article states to plan staying out of the USA for a year if you want to be able to exclude $100,000 of foreign income from your US tax return. You also want to maintain a US bank account, as an example in the article people who did not, took extra effort to get stimulus checks during the virus issue *LOL*

https://www.forbes.com/councils/for...zen-five-things-to-do-before-making-the-jump/

Every document I have read for a US national leaving the country especially Italy. you can only stay for a 90-day tourist Visa or an extended 6-month Visa.

Of which a 6-month Visa extended has to have a form to be filled out and approved before you attempt to stay for 6 months.

Also after the 6 months in Italy or any other European country you have to return to the USA to retain your residency.

This has been the rule for at least the last two years since I have searched for Extended Stays in Italy.

6 months is all we get legally. But of course you can come back for 30 days, fill out the paperwork for another 6 month extended visa and return to Italy.

 

[mikeduf]

I think the problem with geographic arbitrage is that you don’t consider what will happen to you through the aging process.

Everyone assumes that their health, and their need for family, and other forms of support, will remain static. You’re healthy now, so that’s gonna continue, right?

If you move to a country where you don’t speak the primary language, and where the first world medical care does not exist, then you are running some significant risks.

That lifespan that you anticipated, living in the US, could very easily end up much shorter as a result of not being able to access first world healthcare.

Sure, your money goes farther in all of the potential venues you brought up. Of what good is that, if you die 10 years before you would’ve back home?

I absolutely agree with what you're saying. I hear a lot of blah blah blah about moving to different countries because they have better Medical facilities and services. That might be well and fine for people that speak the language of that country and can maneuver around those types of obstacles.

There's nothing worse than being a senior abroad and having an injury and not being able to speak the language.

If it's an English speaking country as the main language like in the UK you might have a better chance of survival. Also I agree that things look greener on the other side because of the lower cost but when you factor in certain things like political climate your rights to certain things and the heavy taxes on your US money coming into that country it might not be so green.!

I looked into the extended visa for a US citizen is 6 months. Then you have to return to the USA for 30 days to retain your residency and fill out more paperwork to return to wherever you want to go in Europe for another extended 6 month.
And one last other observation that I have seen especially! Third worlds that are very poverish! The locals barely have any rights and if you're an American in one of those countries forget it! You might never be seen again if you get mixed up with the wrong locals.

 

[KJSmith]

Google says

To apply for residency in Italy, you need to:

1. Be in Italy to register for residency; you cannot do it from abroad
   
   
   .
2. File a residency application with the local municipality (comune) at the local registry office (anagrafe) where you intend to live
   
   
   .
3. Within 20 days of receiving the permit to stay in Italy, visit the local Vital Statistics Bureau (Anagrafe) to apply for residency
   
   
   .
4. Gather necessary documents including your passport, proof of income and assets, a copy of your lease or deed to the property in Italy, and a certificate of health insurance
   
   
   .

 

[wpod]

From a practical sense, not really. In the distant past, schoolgirls used to regularly say that they had 3 boys vying for their affections. The girls knew even as kids, that affection was the prize. Wealthy men clearly know the score too, and it bothers them not one bit. In fact it is often a far nicer choice than the bitter cold ex.

You truly are the master !

 

[wpod]

Google says

To apply for residency in Italy, you need to:

1. Be in Italy to register for residency; you cannot do it from abroad
   
   
   .
2. File a residency application with the local municipality (comune) at the local registry office (anagrafe) where you intend to live
   
   
   .
3. Within 20 days of receiving the permit to stay in Italy, visit the local Vital Statistics Bureau (Anagrafe) to apply for residency
   
   
   .
4. Gather necessary documents including your passport, proof of income and assets, a copy of your lease or deed to the property in Italy, and a certificate of health insurance
   
   
   .

My grand parents on both sides of the family left Italy to be here in the USA and till their deaths were proud to be Americans.

 

[nickaluch]

1) Proves my point. Have to move to exercise a RIGHT?
2) Congress has passed no law, BUT are we really free to talk about some subjects.....some examples would be the make up of the criminal population, or the mean intelligence? Certain other things?

Yes move so you are happy

 

[alarmguy]

Every document I have read for a US national leaving the country especially Italy. you can only stay for a 90-day tourist Visa or an extended 6-month Visa.

Of which a 6-month Visa extended has to have a form to be filled out and approved before you attempt to stay for 6 months.

Also after the 6 months in Italy or any other European country you have to return to the USA to retain your residency.

This has been the rule for at least the last two years since I have searched for Extended Stays in Italy.

6 months is all we get legally. But of course you can come back for 30 days, fill out the paperwork for another 6 month extended visa and return to Italy.

You're talking about two different things and selecting specific country policies on residency which has nothing to do with the United States requirements when you move overseas and continue to collect social security.

You're saying you must return to the USA to keep collecting Social Security. This is not true according to the information I already posted. You are posting information for people collecting Social Security who are not US citizens. If they do not return to the USA for 30 days every 6 months the payments will stop.

This is a good example for anyone to make sure they follow USA requirements in reporting leaving the country. I am not an expert but I can read as anyone, there is no return to the USA stay required if you are a US citizen retiring in another country other then a form to fill out every so often and send back.

https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10137.pdf

 

[pbm]

My wife from Asia, her sister is moving back there for retirement. Not the countries you mentioned. though, she has family there.
I subscribe to a few Facebook threads on life there. I find Thailand very attractive. It would be at the top of my list.

My wife from an upscale area of the Philippines, her family and notable her friends have an incredible lifestyle there. Im talking house staff, drivers etc. But they are doctors, foundation organizations, CEOs of even companies you may do business with here.
Some of the nicest shopping malls in the world, or certainly better than here However, you're limited to areas and islands because much of the country is very poor. Still there are nice places to live that are very affordable and the people there called the most friendly in the world. Philippines is nice as everyone speaks English and everything is written in English.

Ok, Thailand it would be for me. One other place, never looked into it and maybe not cheap anymore is Costa Rica
Here is the catch though. How will you get medical care? Many who do move there, pay for their care right out of pocket because it is so inexpensive. Same in Costa Rica. You dont go to the pubic medical facilities. You go to the expats facilities which are really good and not expensive compared to here but you still need the funds.
Your only option that I know if you cant afford care would be to fly to the USA and get medical care under medicare.

Oh, I just saw you are talking about 10 years. Gosh wish I was 49 *LOL* You have time but yeah, good time to start considering options.

My niece from the UK is a teacher in Thailand...married a fellow Brit teacher and says she'll live there permanently. The kids are so respectful and the parents are very appreciative.

 

[alarmguy]

My niece from the UK is a teacher in Thailand...married a fellow Brit teacher and says she'll live there permanently. The kids are so respectful and the parents are very appreciative.

AMAZING, I am reading this and watch videos on your very comment as you are 100% correct. Me, not exactly a world traveler I am learning so much how much of the world has caught up to our standard of living. I hear, watch and read how amazing the Thai people are as well as others in the Pacific Rim. But what is even more amazing is value for the dollar and standard of living. Some of these places are so amazing that is hard for us (including me) in the USA who think we are at the cutting edge of everything, well we are not.

Well I am about to get a dose of this Asia scene shortly for a few weeks with my wife. Dont misunderstand my post. I love the USA but we aren't the only place on the planet ... and we aren't the end of all of luxury living and quality of life. I see even the clubs there, exciting raving music clubs but the young are having a blast, good times, laughing not street fighting and causing trouble.

I hear and see stories of people who went there and stayed. Kind of funny one video was from someplace over there, returned home to the UK to save up money in order to return there and stay for good.

 

[Dave Hess]

My oldest sister have dual citizenship for USA and Hungary.

Maybe she with eventually move over there ?

 

[Langanobob]

I haven’t read the whole thread, so maybe the topic has been covered already. What kind of work are you doing? No vacation in 6 years is not reasonable. You are pretty young, have you considered a job or career change? There is something to be said for having a purpose in your life and early retirement doesn’t always work as planned for everyone. Or, take some sort of sabbatical where you could just travel for a while.

For a long time I had a job that paid me to do things that I enjoyed but could not afford to do on my own. Then the management changed…

I’ve lived in other countries and, depending on your personality, they are a great adventure for a while but long term the USA is still the place to be.

If I were in your shoes and at your age I’d focus on changing jobs or careers. I never changed careers myself but it has worked out incredibly well for numerous friends.

 

[mikeduf]

You're talking about two different things and selecting specific country policies on residency which has nothing to do with the United States requirements when you move overseas and continue to collect social security.

You're saying you must return to the USA to keep collecting Social Security. This is not true according to the information I already posted. You are posting information for people collecting Social Security who are not US citizens. If they do not return to the USA for 30 days every 6 months the payments will stop.

This is a good example for anyone to make sure they follow USA requirements in reporting leaving the country. I am not an expert but I can read as anyone, there is no return to the USA stay required if you are a US citizen retiring in another country other then a form to fill out every so often and send back.

https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10137.pdf

Yes I probably wasn't too clear what I was referring to was if you denounce your citizenship to the USA and live abroad permanently you will lose your Social Security. That is what the Social Security Administration told me. You no longer are a citizen and have no further rights. Unless of course you have dual citizenship but that's a different topic.