Rethinking Use of Synthetic - Opinions?

[Bill in Utah]

quote:

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Originally posted by Arctic388:
does no one get better gas mileage form using SYN ? you have to figure that in to justify some of the cost. i know for me i am easily into the positive side using syn. it may take a greater initail investment but over OCI it truly pays for itself in saved fuel cost. especially now with gas so high.

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With the following in my stable or family;

1999 Taurus
1993 Caravan
2001 Civic
1998 Accord
2003 Taurus
2003 PT Cruiser
2000 Silverado
2005 Corolla
2002 Silverado

No improvement of MPG over 1-2 OCIs on Syn (either Mobil 1,Syntec or QS Syn) on any of these engines.

Thats a v-6, I4, V-8 both hwy and city miles.

I received better UOAs on my truck using Pennzoil 5w30 over Mobil 1.

Same with my Corolla using Pennzoil 5w30 over Mobil 1.

Guess I'm the only one finding this out...

I've done the UOAs. I've checked EVERY TANK for the whole OCI and no improvements.

FOR ME , I'll stay with what works.

Thats a fact .

Take care all! Bill

PS:

quote:

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Stop it, Bill. You're killing me

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I will!

 

[Pablo]

I change my oil in my Volvo once a year, if it needs it or not. The engine is very clean. I simply could not do this with dino oil.

Does it save me money? Irrelevant or rather it depends who wants to skew it. Compare to three $19 oil changes? Yes. Compare to buying dino? A wash.

Compare a gallon of ACD, to another.....well OK no oil to quite compare it to.....

Is it wasting money? No.

Do I like changing oil in January in the PNW? What are you thinking!

 

[TomJones76]

Synthetic only gives lower MPG if it is combined with lower viscosity, or your old oil wasn't friction modified and your new one is.
Making sure all your tires are at the sidewall pressure will do more good than ANYTHING you can accomplish by changing viscosity or oil type...

 

[Bill in Utah]

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Compare a gallon of ACD, to another.....

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Pabs...

Whats a ACD?

(Rememeber that I live in a 4 letter state!)

Take care, Bill

 

[Pablo]

Amsoil ACD SAE 30/10W-30 HDEO

 

[LouDawg]

quote:

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Originally posted by bottgers:

quote:

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Originally posted by BlazerLT:
The whole premise behind synthetic oils is to extend your change interval.

If you swap out synthetic at the same interval as dino it won't be worth it.

If you use synthetic properly, it is actually a cheaper oil change with superior protection.

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With the dino I use costing just $1.90 a qt, and the full syns costing $5+ a qt, I'd have to be able to extend my OCI's to 3 times what I'm doing on dino without it being more expensive, and from the info I've gathrered, that isn't possible.

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FWIW, Wal-Mart around here has M1 5-qt jugs for around $20...so about $4.00/qt. That puts it to 2x the oci. Does that make a difference? That's up to you!

 

[2Fast4U]

I don't get it... people complaining about an extra $1 or $2 a quart when gas prices are at $3 a gal.

$4 qt X 5 = $20 (3k~7k+)
$3 gal X 15 = $45 (300 miles ~ 500 miles)
$450+ for gas per oil change when an oil change might be $20~$30 with a filter. If you're running a 0/5w20 and get maybe an extra 2miles/gal just do it.

 

[LouDawg]

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Originally posted by Bill in Utah:

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Like I posted before, Dad's 98 Blazer has 190K, all on el cheapo dino. Still has great power, little to no oil consumption, and gets better than rated mpg. Engine opened up a few years back to change intake gaskets. MY GAWD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was spotless I'll report back when it has 300,000 miles, cause hey, I'm interested in maximum engine life

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Drew, careful with those FACTS.. Some folks don't want that info.

Just like my 86 Jetta with more than 270k and it's spotless also. Using Dino and until 3 years ago Fram filters..

And 96 Chevy truck with 165k and still going strong..

Thats ok. Money is to be spent!

Syn oil is a good place to put it!

Take care, Bill

[/QB]

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I can't and won't dispute your anecdotal evidence and the good service you've received from dino oils. I'm still not sure which way I'm going to end up. But IN GENERAL and with all due respect to your personal experiences, don't most experts agree that true synthetic oils are superior to true dino oils for most/normal automotive applications?

Let me be clear: I'm not saying that syns are the better "value", but if money were no object, and all else being equal, isn't there enough empirical evidence in the industry to state with some confidence that synthetic is indeed superior? Maybe not...I'm just asking. But if that is a fair statement, than doesn't is just become a personal decision as to which offers the better "value"? Not which one is cheaper, but which one offers the best combination of trade-offs between initial cost, perceived long-term protection, fuel economy, etc?

 

[BlazerLT]

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Originally posted by toocrazy2yoo:
Hey Blazer!

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Since when it is impossible to go 9000miles off of a synthetic?

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I'm gonna find out myself, I guess. I'm running M1 5W30 with 1.5 oz of VSOT/Quart. I''m going to spend on 2 UOA with TBN analysis at 5000 and 7500. If it's still good, I'm gonna run it to 10K. It's on an Amsoil synthetic filter, so THAT shouldn't be a problem. I'm nearly 3800 miles, the oil is clean as when it went in, the level hasn't moved off full yet.

Car is a 2005 Accent GT Hyundai 1.6L DOHC 5-Speed. This thing lives between idle and 3500 RPM, there's no reason it should kill the M1 before 10K, right? This OCI began at 5000 miles on the odo.

It's a new car, it's a weenie engine. Impossible 10K OCI?? Not from what folks say, but the UOA will tell the tale, right?

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For sure, BUT, how many miles on it?

Make sure the break in material is removed before you extend your interval.

 

[Auto-Union]

"And what exactly is your oil change interval?"

Umm, I dunno. I could not even keep track of all the car's mileages if I tried. Some are friends some are family some are mine. After all the time spent "studying" here, my formula is based on time. 4 months for dino (HM and Blends too) 6 months for synth. I figure at 1500 mi a month that is approx 6000mi dino oci and 9000mi oci for synth as a max. That's the beauty of time intervals, it accounts for short-trippers and long distance drivers. Be it 3000 miles in 4 months or 7500, it's time to dump it. Right now, I have been musing if I can go 6 months in my car on synth. I don't think so since I am driving 2000-2500 a month. Since I alredy have the oil stashed, 4 months on M1 it is. Wife's CR-V will get the GC at 6 months and all the other people's cars that I don't get reembursed for get dino at 4 months. (Delo) PS all the oci cycles start right before winter, I'm no dummy.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

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Originally posted by bottgers:

quote:

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Originally posted by BlazerLT:
The whole premise behind synthetic oils is to extend your change interval.

If you swap out synthetic at the same interval as dino it won't be worth it.

If you use synthetic properly, it is actually a cheaper oil change with superior protection.

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With the dino I use costing just $1.90 a qt, and the full syns costing $5+ a qt, I'd have to be able to extend my OCI's to 3 times what I'm doing on dino without it being more expensive, and from the info I've gathrered, that isn't possible.

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Exactly it is not cost effective.

 

[BlazerLT]

quote:

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Originally posted by Auto-Union:
"And what exactly is your oil change interval?"

Umm, I dunno. I could not even keep track of all the car's mileages if I tried. Some are friends some are family some are mine. After all the time spent "studying" here, my formula is based on time. 4 months for dino (HM and Blends too) 6 months for synth. I figure at 1500 mi a month that is approx 6000mi dino oci and 9000mi oci for synth as a max. That's the beauty of time intervals, it accounts for short-trippers and long distance drivers. Be it 3000 miles in 4 months or 7500, it's time to dump it. Right now, I have been musing if I can go 6 months in my car on synth. I don't think so since I am driving 2000-2500 a month. Since I alredy have the oil stashed, 4 months on M1 it is. Wife's CR-V will get the GC at 6 months and all the other people's cars that I don't get reembursed for get dino at 4 months. (Delo) PS all the oci cycles start right before winter, I'm no dummy.

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I don't get it, you are debating cost when you yourself are not even keeping track of the mileage.

Changing oil by time interval is a waste and synthetic every 6 months is a complete waste.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

quote:

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Originally posted by BlazerLT:

quote:

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Originally posted by bottgers:

quote:

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Originally posted by BlazerLT:
The whole premise behind synthetic oils is to extend your change interval.

If you swap out synthetic at the same interval as dino it won't be worth it.

If you use synthetic properly, it is actually a cheaper oil change with superior protection.

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With the dino I use costing just $1.90 a qt, and the full syns costing $5+ a qt, I'd have to be able to extend my OCI's to 3 times what I'm doing on dino without it being more expensive, and from the info I've gathrered, that isn't possible.

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Since when it is impossible to go 9000miles off of a synthetic?

Impossible?....never if you take advantage of a good synthetic.

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No 3 x 5k = 15k interv als with syn to justifry cost.. what do you spend to insure you are safe at 15k mile OCI's???

Enough for two more conventional OCI's. poerhaps?

As far as fuel effecincy, I have never seen a difference. I would say that changing the differential oik to synthetic is smarter than the engine oil to syn as far as fuel savings is concerned.

 

[BlazerLT]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bryanccfshr:

quote:

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Originally posted by bottgers:

quote:

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Originally posted by BlazerLT:
The whole premise behind synthetic oils is to extend your change interval.

If you swap out synthetic at the same interval as dino it won't be worth it.

If you use synthetic properly, it is actually a cheaper oil change with superior protection.

---

With the dino I use costing just $1.90 a qt, and the full syns costing $5+ a qt, I'd have to be able to extend my OCI's to 3 times what I'm doing on dino without it being more expensive, and from the info I've gathrered, that isn't possible.

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Exactly it is not cost effective.

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Of course it isn't if you don't extend the oil change interval.

That is the point, you can go to 9000miles with synthetic and be perfectly protected.

Synthetic: 9000miles $5 per quart
Dino: 3000miles : $1.90 x3 = 9000miles = $5.70 per 9000 miles OCI.

Do the math, it is cheaper and you will have superior protection.

Synthetic is cheaper if properly used.

If you want to be an idiot and change synthetic every 3000miles, then of course it won't be "cost effective".

Wish people would actually pull out a calculator and do the math.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

who does 3 freaking k oci's?? any sm conventional can go 5-6k .

I have done syn I have done it with 2 buck a quart clearance M1. for 8500 mile oci's

I am doing the math.. If I payed a walmart 4 bucks a quart I am still not breaking even!!

My oil is shot at 8-9h wuith sybnthetic. with conventional at 5k it is still nice and safe.

Synthetic lasting longer that conventional?
Not significantly since SJ.

these false numbrs of 3k with conventional and 8 k with syn are just to easy. Again, 9k is safe with syn.. try 15k with the m1 Ep and do a UOA (be sure to factor in this additonal cost) and see if it is cost effective.

Trying to justify syn cost wise is futile and seriously a denial deffense mechanisme. If you want to say you don't mind paying more to use synthetic because it makes you feel better then you are more on an honhest track unless you have a high performance high tempreature application, or an arctic application wheere super cold start performance is important,

Soo instead of playing games with the numbers how about being honest about the motivatgions for using synthetic when it is not required for the duty of the vehicle?

Edit: I apologize for the typos, I am on my laptop which I normally do not use for posting+ poor typing.

[ April 26, 2006, 12:59 AM: Message edited by: Bryanccfshr ]

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

Holy keerap. A dino vs. syn thread this long after all these years!

 

[Bryanccfshr]

And imagine how many of us have switched sides an odd or even amount of times?

 

[Auto-Union]

I agree, you can "tweak" the numbers to validate either plan. Let's take a sensible approach. It seems, to me, that the 2:3 correlation is about right. 6000mi dino vs 9000mi synth, both are "extended", but safe. So shouldn't the cost factor be in that range too? It's not. $1.50 dino as a standard would necessitiate $2.25 for synth to be comparable. I know my figures are going to be rheamed by people, but 2:3 (6000 : 9000 miles) is a defendable position and price point. $2 dino should mean $3 synth. This takes into account ONLY oci, not HD turbo apps or Artic service, but ...come on!!!

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

Blazer..

Car had 5K when I did the M1/VSOT/Amsoil filter OCI. At 500, 1500, 2500 I did cheap dino OCI (MC, Havoline, Havoline in that order). Didn't wanna leave that sludging dino solution in there too long, dontcha know?

This has been quoted so many times, I don't even know who originally stated it, but I don't buy it in any case:

quote:

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Like I posted before, Dad's 98 Blazer has 190K, all on el cheapo dino. Still has great power, little to no oil consumption, and gets better than rated mpg. Engine opened up a few years back to change intake gaskets. MY GAWD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was spotless I'll report back when it has 300,000 miles, cause hey, I'm interested in maximum engine life

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Clearly the maniacle ravings of someone or other with a rather large, if weird, axe to grind.

To each his (tightwad) own.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

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Originally posted by toocrazy2yoo:

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Clearly the maniacle ravings of someone or other with a rather large, if weird, axe to grind.

To each his (tightwad) own. [/QUOTE]


Certainly you have more to contribute than prsonal attacks against those who show that bigger $$$ is not always better.

Lets be clear here, I love synthetic lubricants they have pushed the envelope. The fact is that synbthetic peerformance must be met by all current oils. Synthetics no longer offer an advantage in 90% of applications, the other10% know they need help. and even then syn may not be enough.