Replace Hakkapeliitta R2s on WRX

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Palut

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I've got a set of Hakkapeliitta R2s on my 2015 WRX that I'm considering replacing with Michelin Xi3s. I'm looking for your thoughts on whether or not it would be worth it. The Hakkas are very impressive in the snow, but they feel downright scary in rain above 35°-40°. I've rarely felt less grip in a tire. While I'm frequently in mountain snow, in the Seattle area our winters are mostly 35°-45° and rainy, so I find myself really pussyfooting it around, wondering if I've actually increased the danger by buying these tires. I'm afraid that I bought the wrong tool for these particular conditions, but don't want to waste the cash on replacements if the competition won't be any better. I've only run them for two winters so far, and they're nowhere near worn out. How do you feel that Xi3s do on wet roads with temperatures above freezing? Do they perform well enough to be worth a switch?
 
The general Altima arctic is good in the rain and above freezing temps. I have the old design on the mr2 in the winter and they are very solid in rain. The new design is supposed to be great too.
 
I think you picked wrong type of winter tire. Michelin xice are the same type. I think you may be better served with performance winter tires. Krzys
 
What's the deepest snow you drive in? Is your tire size 235/47-17? Tires that may suit your needs: Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3 Hankook iCept Evo2 W320 Pirelli Sottozero
Originally Posted By: krzyss
I think you picked wrong type of winter tire. Michelin xice are the same type. I think you may be better served with performance winter tires. Krzys
approved The xice won't be any better in warm temps.
 
Originally Posted By: TinyVoices
The general Altima arctic is good in the rain and above freezing temps. I have the old design on the mr2 in the winter and they are very solid in rain. The new design is supposed to be great too.
I have the Altima Arctics on my Saab 92x (WRX clone), and they run great in wet and snow. Not so great on ice, but I don't see many ice storms in Michigan.
 
I had the altima artics on my nissan versa in NJ 5 years ago. Amazing winter tire and made my FWD economy car handle like a 4x4 on steroids in the snow. Excellent grip in dry/slush/snow as well as good tread life and good value for money. If i needed winter tires in KY, I would buy them in a heartbeat. They were so good that I recommended them to my brother who lives in Boston, hes been using them ever since.
 
Originally Posted By: Palut
I've got a set of Hakkapeliitta R2s on my 2015 WRX that I'm considering replacing with Michelin Xi3s. I'm looking for your thoughts on whether or not it would be worth it. The Hakkas are very impressive in the snow, but they feel downright scary in rain above 35°-40°. I've rarely felt less grip in a tire. While I'm frequently in mountain snow, in the Seattle area our winters are mostly 35°-45° and rainy, so I find myself really pussyfooting it around, wondering if I've actually increased the danger by buying these tires. I'm afraid that I bought the wrong tool for these particular conditions, but don't want to waste the cash on replacements if the competition won't be any better. I've only run them for two winters so far, and they're nowhere near worn out. How do you feel that Xi3s do on wet roads with temperatures above freezing? Do they perform well enough to be worth a switch?
Michelin as a tire is light years ahead of Nokian. I am talking about structure, longevity etc. That being said, Xi3 is also tire made for certain conditions. While R2 is probably best in deep snow and slush, I hear a lot of complaints about wet, flat spotting and premature wear (well this comes with super soft compound). Xi3 is made more for roads that are cleaned but as any cleaned roads in winter have tendency to freeze. So, unless you go thru foot of snow often. probably Xi3 will be better. They are better in snow then performance winter tires, but also better in dry and wet then winter tires like Blzizak or Altimax etc. I just put on my BMW Latitude Xi2 (had Blizzak DM-V2 past two winters) and improvement in dry and wet is ridiculous compare to Blizzak. Based on tread, I do not expect to be as good ind eep snow and slush as Blizzak, but again, we have more then 300 sunny days in Colorado, so dry performance is also important. I would say based on your needs XI3 will be good. Check also Continental Wintercontact SI! Continental makes best winter tires in Europe (we do not get those) so I bet they used a lot of know-how for SI model.
 
I disagree with edyvw. I am going into my 4th season on Hakka R2's and am at 6/32's remaining. The tread is extremely soft. Friend of mine ran XI 3s and tread life is similar over similar mileage (both run at same mfr pressures). The x ice's may hold slight edge on ice (although no tire is great on ice unless they are studded per my experience. To the OP, I would suggest looking at the WRG3 all weather tire based on your conditions. I think it would address your conditions better (snow and rain and temps that arent that cold). Or..a performance winter like the others mentionned would also be a good choice. I think the Nokian R2's fair below avg in wet and dry. They are to this day my fave winters ive ever had but wonder if something better now exists. I have debated all weathers but our weather can get nasty..35 inches of snow on our last storm last year, tons of black ice, blowing snow and -30 celsius at times. Performance winter or all weather wrg3 seem like a good fit for you.
 
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Originally Posted By: krzyss
I think you picked wrong type of winter tire. Michelin xice are the same type. I think you may be better served with performance winter tires. Krzys
I agree. Get a performance winter. The R2 and Xi3 have very similar performance on wet pavement. From the 2016 winter tire testing at Test World (Finland):
Quote:
Wet Braking from 80 km/hr (meters) 31.2 Continental performance winter 34.5 Landsail studless 38.4 Continental 38.6 Pirelli 39.3 Gislaved 40.3 Goodyear studless 40.4 Michelin 41.0 Toyo 41.4 Hankook 41.6 Nokian 41.7 Kumho 42.3 Bridgestone 42.3 Goodyear 43.3 Pirelli studless 44.3 Bridgestone studless 44.3 Continental studless 44.4 Hankook studless 44.9 Sava studless 44.9 Yokohama studless 45.0 Michelin Xi3 studless 45.4 Nokian R2 studless 46.7 Nankang studless Wet Course Lap Time (seconds) 35.4 Continental performance winter 38.1 Pirelli 38.5 Landsail 39.0 Continental 39.5 Gislaved 39.5 Goodyear studless 39.7 Michelin 39.9 Continental studless 40.0 Nokian 40.0 Pirelli studless 40.1 Nokian R2 studless 40.3 Bridgestone 40.3 Goodyear 40.4 Hankook 40.4 Toyo 40.5 Kumho 40.9 Michelin Xi3 studless 40.9 Sava studless 41.2 Hankook studless 41.2 Nankang studless 41.4 Yokohama studless 41.7 Bridgestone studless Dry Braking from 80 km/hr (meters) 35.0 Continental performance winter 36.8 Landsail studless 38.3 Bridgestone studless 38.5 Michelin Xi3 studless 38.6 Nokian R2 studless 38.7 Continental studless 38.8 Toyo 38.9 Michelin 38.9 Yokohama studless 39.0 Goodyear studless 39.1 Pirelli studless 39.3 Hankook studless 39.4 Kumho 39.4 Nokian 39.7 Sava studless 40.2 Continental 40.2 Pirelli 40.5 Gislaved 40.5 Nankang studless 40.8 Bridgestone 41.5 Goodyear 41.6 Hankook
http://www.skstuds.ca/2016/10/14/the-eng...-test/#more-898
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
I disagree with edyvw. I am going into my 4th season on Hakka R2's and am at 6/32's remaining. The tread is extremely soft. Friend of mine ran XI 3s and tread life is similar over similar mileage (both run at same mfr pressures). The x ice's may hold slight edge on ice (although no tire is great on ice unless they are studded per my experience. To the OP, I would suggest looking at the WRG3 all weather tire based on your conditions. I think it would address your conditions better (snow and rain and temps that arent that cold). Or..a performance winter like the others mentionned would also be a good choice. I think the Nokian R2's fair below avg in wet and dry. They are to this day my fave winters ive ever had but wonder if something better now exists. I have debated all weathers but our weather can get nasty..35 inches of snow on our last storm last year, tons of black ice, blowing snow and -30 celsius at times. Performance winter or all weather wrg3 seem like a good fit for you.
Will see, I might pull of trigger on R2 during Thanksgiving sale for wife's car. Longevity is not priority for her, nor dry performance, but deep snow and slush is. However, I stand by comment that Nokian is not even close in overall quality to Michelin. I had Nokians WR D3 in Europe, and there are far better tires then that one. So, we will see about R2's.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
I disagree with edyvw. I am going into my 4th season on Hakka R2's and am at 6/32's remaining. The tread is extremely soft. Friend of mine ran XI 3s and tread life is similar over similar mileage (both run at same mfr pressures). The x ice's may hold slight edge on ice (although no tire is great on ice unless they are studded per my experience. To the OP, I would suggest looking at the WRG3 all weather tire based on your conditions. I think it would address your conditions better (snow and rain and temps that arent that cold). Or..a performance winter like the others mentionned would also be a good choice. I think the Nokian R2's fair below avg in wet and dry. They are to this day my fave winters ive ever had but wonder if something better now exists. I have debated all weathers but our weather can get nasty..35 inches of snow on our last storm last year, tons of black ice, blowing snow and -30 celsius at times. Performance winter or all weather wrg3 seem like a good fit for you.
Will see, I might pull of trigger on R2 during Thanksgiving sale for wife's car. Longevity is not priority for her, nor dry performance, but deep snow and slush is. However, I stand by comment that Nokian is not even close in overall quality to Michelin. I had Nokians WR D3 in Europe, and there are far better tires then that one. So, we will see about R2's.
The WRD3 is far better than what, the WRG3? What do you mean by overall quality? Alot of reviews give the slight edge to the R2's over the X ice 3's. Id say neck and neck with Michelin, so unsure how overall quality is different.
 
The XIce3 will be worse in pretty much every way, and will not be any better in the warm/damp. Sounds like you need a "performance" winter tire like the Michelin Pilot Alpin. But you are trading off real winter performance for better in the warm/dry/damp.
 
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
I disagree with edyvw. I am going into my 4th season on Hakka R2's and am at 6/32's remaining. The tread is extremely soft. Friend of mine ran XI 3s and tread life is similar over similar mileage (both run at same mfr pressures). The x ice's may hold slight edge on ice (although no tire is great on ice unless they are studded per my experience. To the OP, I would suggest looking at the WRG3 all weather tire based on your conditions. I think it would address your conditions better (snow and rain and temps that arent that cold). Or..a performance winter like the others mentionned would also be a good choice. I think the Nokian R2's fair below avg in wet and dry. They are to this day my fave winters ive ever had but wonder if something better now exists. I have debated all weathers but our weather can get nasty..35 inches of snow on our last storm last year, tons of black ice, blowing snow and -30 celsius at times. Performance winter or all weather wrg3 seem like a good fit for you.
Will see, I might pull of trigger on R2 during Thanksgiving sale for wife's car. Longevity is not priority for her, nor dry performance, but deep snow and slush is. However, I stand by comment that Nokian is not even close in overall quality to Michelin. I had Nokians WR D3 in Europe, and there are far better tires then that one. So, we will see about R2's.
The WRD3 is far better than what, the WRG3? What do you mean by overall quality? Alot of reviews give the slight edge to the R2's over the X ice 3's. Id say neck and neck with Michelin, so unsure how overall quality is different.
Overall quality: weight of tire, strength of construction, flat spotting, longevity, balancing etc. Michelin is there IMO the best product. Bridgestone for example makes really good tires, it is often put in same category as Michelin, until you see that Bridgestone needs 5-6 additional lbs per tire to achieve similar results. As for D3, it is European tire. it is good, do not get me wrong, but not even close to Continental TS830 or 850, or Good Year Ultra Grip (European Ultra Grip).
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
The XIce3 will be worse in pretty much every way, and will not be any better in the warm/damp. Sounds like you need a "performance" winter tire like the Michelin Pilot Alpin. But you are trading off real winter performance for better in the warm/dry/damp.
Xi3 will be worse in deep snow and slush then R2, Continental SI, Blzizak, but none of those tires can hold a candle to Michelin in dry and especially in warm weather! I have now on BMW Xi2, and compare to Blizzak in warm weather it is night and day. I do not expect it will be on par with Blizzak in deep snow and slush, but dry, and especially warm weather? Michelin will blast out any snow tire. And I need actually hard core tires since I love to ski in inclement weather, but winter driving is not only driving thru 1ft of snow.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
I disagree with edyvw. I am going into my 4th season on Hakka R2's and am at 6/32's remaining. The tread is extremely soft. Friend of mine ran XI 3s and tread life is similar over similar mileage (both run at same mfr pressures). The x ice's may hold slight edge on ice (although no tire is great on ice unless they are studded per my experience. To the OP, I would suggest looking at the WRG3 all weather tire based on your conditions. I think it would address your conditions better (snow and rain and temps that arent that cold). Or..a performance winter like the others mentionned would also be a good choice. I think the Nokian R2's fair below avg in wet and dry. They are to this day my fave winters ive ever had but wonder if something better now exists. I have debated all weathers but our weather can get nasty..35 inches of snow on our last storm last year, tons of black ice, blowing snow and -30 celsius at times. Performance winter or all weather wrg3 seem like a good fit for you.
Will see, I might pull of trigger on R2 during Thanksgiving sale for wife's car. Longevity is not priority for her, nor dry performance, but deep snow and slush is. However, I stand by comment that Nokian is not even close in overall quality to Michelin. I had Nokians WR D3 in Europe, and there are far better tires then that one. So, we will see about R2's.
The WRD3 is far better than what, the WRG3? What do you mean by overall quality? Alot of reviews give the slight edge to the R2's over the X ice 3's. Id say neck and neck with Michelin, so unsure how overall quality is different.
The d3 and a3 make up the WRG3 line. The etc size is likely going to be the A3 pattern Edyvw complains about a winter tire hitting slush at 50 mph in another thread. Makes you wonder about his driving sensibilities in regards to his tire reviews
 
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
I disagree with edyvw. I am going into my 4th season on Hakka R2's and am at 6/32's remaining. The tread is extremely soft. Friend of mine ran XI 3s and tread life is similar over similar mileage (both run at same mfr pressures). The x ice's may hold slight edge on ice (although no tire is great on ice unless they are studded per my experience. To the OP, I would suggest looking at the WRG3 all weather tire based on your conditions. I think it would address your conditions better (snow and rain and temps that arent that cold). Or..a performance winter like the others mentionned would also be a good choice. I think the Nokian R2's fair below avg in wet and dry. They are to this day my fave winters ive ever had but wonder if something better now exists. I have debated all weathers but our weather can get nasty..35 inches of snow on our last storm last year, tons of black ice, blowing snow and -30 celsius at times. Performance winter or all weather wrg3 seem like a good fit for you.
Will see, I might pull of trigger on R2 during Thanksgiving sale for wife's car. Longevity is not priority for her, nor dry performance, but deep snow and slush is. However, I stand by comment that Nokian is not even close in overall quality to Michelin. I had Nokians WR D3 in Europe, and there are far better tires then that one. So, we will see about R2's.
The WRD3 is far better than what, the WRG3? What do you mean by overall quality? Alot of reviews give the slight edge to the R2's over the X ice 3's. Id say neck and neck with Michelin, so unsure how overall quality is different.
The d3 and a3 make up the WRG3 line. The etc size is likely going to be the A3 pattern Edyvw complains about a winter tire hitting slush at 50 mph in another thread. Makes you wonder about his driving sensibilities in regards to his tire reviews
Yes, because on clean roads when you have slush in between lanes you drive how fast?
 
Thank you all for your input, I guess I'd written performance winters off as not being very good. My mind has been changed. It looks like the Michelin Alpin's aren't available for my car, so I'm off to get some Pirelli Sottozero 3s.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Yes, because on clean roads when you have slush in between lanes you drive how fast?
When I see patches of snow or slush, I slow down to a reasonable speed.
 
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Yes, because on clean roads when you have slush in between lanes you drive how fast?
When I see patches of snow or slush, I slow down to a reasonable speed.
What is reasonable speed? Hogging traffic?
 
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