REMOVED K&N AIR FILTERS

[ALS]

Anthony I have to agree. I love going to the dealer just to see how F-ing cheap Volvo owners are. Last time I was in I got to see a V70 Cross Country $38-40K that was sludged up with the PEP Boys Futura 4 for $99 tires. Most of the recomended services were missed on the car.
Owner was complaining that the dealer was out of line on the costs. What the Heck you bought a 40K dollar car and your complaining about a $300 service once a year. Needless to say this cheapskate voided what was left of his warranty on the engine.

 

[Scott_dup1]

Hey, I just wanted to drop my $.02...

As someone pointed out in this thread, if the filter is not the air flow/velocity bottleneck in the intake system, then the K&N will not help. On the home page, there is an article that discusses flow vs. filtration with various filters:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm

A good paper filter will ALWAYS have better filtration per square inch of media. While gauze will flow more air, it isn't THAT much more and I respect my car's engine more than a bit of air flow over stock.

The key to paper filters is square inches of media. I looked at many and finally decided on either Bosch or Mahle filters (would have stuck with Mahle, but they did not have the right size for my Infiniti G35). The Bosch and Mahle filters have more (and sometimes deeper) pleats than any stock. More pleats mean more square inches of media and therefore more airflow... WITHOUT compromising filtration.

The only time I can see filters (filters, not intake tubing) really making a difference is if you are using forced induction (or pushing factory supercharger/turbos SIGNIFICANTLY beyond OE boost). However, paper filters just don't look as cool because they lack the fun colors. I, personally, would rather buy a paper cone filter than gauze if I needed it for an application. I mean, hey, if they worked so well filtering, then they would be used everywhere, but they aren't.

As for the K&N's saving money? Dream on. With the average air filter running ~$10 and lasting ~20K miles, the ~$45 for a K&N air filter would take at least 100K miles before it would pay for itself. And that is not considering the cost in time and oil kits in maintaining the filter. THEN you will need to add in the difficult to measure cost of (IMO) reduced engine longevity.

Personally, I can think of better things to spend my money on than one of K&N's over priced filters...

Scott

 

[Ray H]

The noise that leads some to believe that the revised intake plumbing is less restrictive may be deceptive, too. Most (all?) stock intake systems have a Helmholtz resonator tuned 180 degrees to the normal intake pulsations. These resonators don't materially reduce flow - they just cancel noise.

 

[thunderchild]

I removed the K&N type filter from my 2000 Durango. I like the longevity instead of the slight boost in performance. I will keep the OEM paper on my now new 2003 Durango. I want my trucks to last as long as possible. This means clean engine internals.

 

[Horatio]

Just removed mine that I'd had on for 100,000kms last weekend and replaced it with a Wix from NAPA. So far no real noticeable difference in driving other than an extremely low idle problem for a couple of days afterwards. I wonder if the MAP sensor had to adjust or something? It is a little quieter now.

I'll post any change in mileage if there is one.

Greg

 

[Mooosman]

I work at an auto parts store that sells Fram/Pennzoil/and K&N air filters and oil filters. We stock mostly the Frams for the air filters, and I have to say, if I had a newer car, I would invest in a K&N for it for the simple reason of cost.

I don't care about the miniscule (if any) gain in horsepower or gas mileage. The main thing I like is that the filter is washable/reuseable. A lot of newer cars have EXPENSIVE paper element filters. The one for my Mom's 2000 4Runner is like $24.

The K&N is $50. I'll buy the K&N at the next filter change. Same goes for newer Ford/Chevy pickups, where the filters are $20+. I buy the filter for the washable element, not for any HP or mileage gains.

Nick,
Runs K&N...

 

[Durrr]

look at the piece of cloth that goes behind the filter to see how it filters, and then compare the flow. Looks like the Apex'i wins

 

[gerhardb]

The K&N filter does not filter out dust particles in the air was well as the factory filter in my Honda h22a4.

UOA shows a significantly higher amount of silicon in the oil when I use the K&N.

 

[jsharp]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mooosman:
I work at an auto parts store that sells Fram/Pennzoil/and K&N air filters and oil filters. We stock mostly the Frams for the air filters, and I have to say, if I had a newer car, I would invest in a K&N for it for the simple reason of cost.

I don't care about the miniscule (if any) gain in horsepower or gas mileage. The main thing I like is that the filter is washable/reuseable. A lot of newer cars have EXPENSIVE paper element filters. The one for my Mom's 2000 4Runner is like $24.

The K&N is $50. I'll buy the K&N at the next filter change. Same goes for newer Ford/Chevy pickups, where the filters are $20+. I buy the filter for the washable element, not for any HP or mileage gains.

Nick,
Runs K&N...

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I did the same thing for the same reason with a couple of vehicles. Now that I can buy decent quality aftermarket paper filters for low bucks I've taken the K&N filters out of all my vehicles other than one old dirt bike. It was factory installed in that model.

If you need a good 4Runner filter for low $$, go to Autozone and get an STP. $7 and it looks to be very good quality.

...

[ May 18, 2004, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: jsharp ]

 

[kansaisubaru]

For the Japanese link, click on the various filters. It will tell you at the very top in English how well it filtered plus the added increase in hp. HP in Japanese measurement is "PS". http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/1/

 

[digitaldrifter91]

quote:

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Originally posted by kansaisubaru:
For the Japanese link, click on the various filters. It will tell you at the very top in English how well it filtered plus the added increase in hp. HP in Japanese measurement is "PS". http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/1/

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good link, i was concidering doing that to some cone filers i had.

apexi is a good filter, its a dry media paper filter but costs soooo much! ebay has em for 70+

i was going to buy that but imma experiment with this other filter.

question guys, what is the allowable dirt to get by a filter? no filter can filter 100%....compared to the pictures there? cant we sacrafice a little bit of dirt?

 

[digitaldrifter91]

http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/2/

there is another page on theirs in english, i found that

 

[2002 Maxima SE]

One thing that I don't think anyone has brought up is that the K&N filter is VERY POOR WHEN CLEAN. The filter gets better with age, so anyone who cleans there filter every 3k with an oil change is causing the damage...not the filter. K&N doesn't recommend cleaning the filter for 30k to 50k.

quote:

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The general rule of thumb is that the filter needs to be cleaned when the dirt build up gets as thick as the wire mesh. The usual interval is 30,000 - 50,000 miles depending on driving conditions. We recommend that you check your filter about once a year in normal usage.

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Personally, I have been running a K&N drop in for 30k miles, just did my UOA yesterday. I have not cleaned the filter since I bought it.

*Note: My usual oil change is every 5k but I changed early due to a long trip. I will be following there recommendations and trying a 6k change interval with follow up UOA. Stay tuned...

[ May 30, 2004, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: 2002 Maxima SE ]

 

[georgiablue]

quote:

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Originally posted by oilcan:
Last week I removed the K&N air filters from my 86 F250 4x4 460C.I.-- 02 Dakota 4x4 4.7. and I have noticed that the FORD runs abit better, and the DAKOTA got a few tenth better gas mileage. I

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define "runs better". based on the butt dyno? placebo effect? or is it idling better, etc?

also, a few tenths better gas mileage? i contend that it is difficult to say that is due to the air filter. i would think that gas mileage will vary more due to driving habits and conditions than your choice of air filter (unless you put something supremely restrictive in there). imo, impossible to say that "a few tenths" was due to the filter.

 

[kwikrnu]

I just changed out the stock/original airfilter on my '03 corolla with nearly 40K miles. I installed a K&N replacement filter. If the oil analysis is bad I'll switch back to paper. I did notice a big increase in power. Especially at 3000 plus rpms where the engine usually is on the freeway. Passing people is quicker. I'm not sure if it is because the old filter had so many miles and was performing poorly or if the K&N is really that much better. The K&N filter was only $35. I think the stock denso filter is around $20-$25.

 

[ALS]

Be careful with the Butt and Ear dyno for evaluating performance with the K&N. My Volvo sounded like it was the baddest thing on the road with the amount of induction noise coming from the air box. Car is just as fast with the factory paper filter but a lot quieter. I have a hill by me that from a dead stop at full throttle I can hit 55 mph by the top. The car hits 55 with the K&N as well as the factory paper filter on that hill at full throttle. I found no difference in gas mileage or any real changes in my Oil Analysis between the filters. Of course Volvo does have a pretty large air box and filter for a 2.3 liter motor. I just feel safer using the paper filter over the K&N. I swapped out the K&N after 5 cleanings/Years for a paper unit. The air filter test on this site sold me on using a paper filter over the K&N.

 

[RedWolf4000]

I find it very funny that when test results are posted with bad K&N results, tons of people have comments and "proof" of the K&N filter being a poor air filter.

Yet when great results are posted, like the one from Maxima, everyone continues to post as if he never showed the results, i 90% of the people in here are BIAS and base everything they know on what Dad used to do with his car.

Its proof when i see people telling others to change there synthetic every 3-5k.