Regular vs. Premium Unleaded Gasoline.

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: stchman
He said that he uses premium in all his cars as the engine will last longer. What a bunch of [censored].

I guess it depends which particular gas brand he's using. Shell, for example, includes more additives in their premium vs regular, so theoretically you could argue that premium helps keep his fuel system cleaner. Alas, it's usually cheaper just to buy a bottle of Techron once a year than to keep paying higher price for premium gas all year long, if your car doesn't require it.

 

[Ramblejam]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
The new Ford Focus ST Ecoboost is rated for regular, as is my 3.5L Ecoboost F150 and my 2009 F150 with 5.4L. All 3 vehicles experience a power boost on 93 octane. Dyno reports show the Focus gains 9HP, and both F150's gain about 10 foot pounds of torque and 20HP on 93.


I can understand the "Ecoboost" models, but a naturally aspirated 5.4? Do you have any information on that 10lb-ft/20hp gain?

Originally Posted By: hypervish
I get more power and better mpg on 93 octane in both my RX300 and ES300. However both car's are tuned for high octane fuel.

I can run lower octane in both and not have a problem, however mpg will suffer along with power.


Originally Posted By: y_p_w
My parents drive a 2001 Camry V6. The owner's manual says that 87 octane is fine, but that the engine will be capable of better performance (and mileage?) with 91 octane. I guess it's all in the way it's marketed.


Absolutely. You wouldn't think a 3.0L, 200HP V6 would thrive on higher octane fuel, but the 1MZ-FE certainly does.

 

[dareo]

The pumps are rated at a minimum octane rating of [octane] so for most engines just buy the cheap stuff like everyone else. The sell through is way higher on regular. Regular often has higher energy per gallon. Aging high octane gas can loose some octane rating. So very fresh regular could actually test higher than older premium.

It is all about the volume sold if you ask me. I got some of my best tanks when i still had my Sam's card and fueled up there. There was always a line to pump fuel at this sams.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: dareo
The pumps are rated at a minimum octane rating of [octane] so for most engines just buy the cheap stuff like everyone else. The sell through is way higher on regular. Regular often has higher energy per gallon. Aging high octane gas can loose some octane rating. So very fresh regular could actually test higher than older premium.

It is all about the volume sold if you ask me. I got some of my best tanks when i still had my Sam's card and fueled up there. There was always a line to pump fuel at this sams.

Depends on where you live. Around here, there are tons of cars that take premium, including MB, BMW, and other high performance and forced induction cars.

I was recently filling up my tank as a driver was setting up the delivery. I got a look at one of the regulators on the side of the rear trailer of double length rig. It had three regulators, and were labelled with their capacity and fuel type. It was REGULAR (2000 gallons) on the outsides and PREMIUM (800 gallons) in the middle. I didn't see anything with midgrade, so they might have used blending pumps to get 89. I didn't get a good look at the lead tank though.

 

[dareo]

Sure, in very high income areas you will have a lot of premium cars backed up by wealthy gas buyers. In regular areas of the US you have people who probably should be buying premium for their whatever and they just skip it and get regular.

Too bad we can't know exactly how old that fuel in the stations tank is, and its exact ethanol percentage.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: dareo
Sure, in very high income areas you will have a lot of premium cars backed up by wealthy gas buyers. In regular areas of the US you have people who probably should be buying premium for their whatever and they just skip it and get regular.

Too bad we can't know exactly how old that fuel in the stations tank is, and its exact ethanol percentage.

I used to drive a '95 Integra GS-R. Premium Unleaded sticker right on the back of the filler door. A lot of moderately priced cars actually require premium these days. They use it to wring higher performance out of small engines.

 

[Rhymingmechanic]

I always thought my 2001 5.3 Silverado felt more responsive on premium. Last summer, I got a Bluetooth adapter and Torque, and verified that there actually is more knock retard on 87 than 93 and even 89.

In my normal, around town driving, low-end response is a lot better with higher octane. After going back to 87, it felt like power fell off noticeably after shifts. Mileage was about the same, and the price spread keeps me using regular.

 

[artificialist]

My mother used 87 octane in her 1999 CRV and 2002 Solara 2.4 which called for 87 octane, but when you floored the gas, you could always hear a few loud pings around 4000 RPM.
She never tried 93 octane, and I never advised he to.

There are so many factors for octane sensitivity that it makes for a very interesting discussion.

Sometimes the engine is programmed to never advance timing past a certain point, and never allow turbo boost past a certain point, even if extra fuel octane allows it. There are a huge variety of reasons for that, it would also lead to a long discussion.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: dareo
The pumps are rated at a minimum octane rating of [octane] so for most engines just buy the cheap stuff like everyone else. The sell through is way higher on regular. Regular often has higher energy per gallon. Aging high octane gas can loose some octane rating. So very fresh regular could actually test higher than older premium.

It is all about the volume sold if you ask me. I got some of my best tanks when i still had my Sam's card and fueled up there. There was always a line to pump fuel at this sams.

Depends on where you live. Around here, there are tons of cars that take premium, including MB, BMW, and other high performance and forced induction cars.

I was recently filling up my tank as a driver was setting up the delivery. I got a look at one of the regulators on the side of the rear trailer of double length rig. It had three regulators, and were labelled with their capacity and fuel type. It was REGULAR (2000 gallons) on the outsides and PREMIUM (800 gallons) in the middle. I didn't see anything with midgrade, so they might have used blending pumps to get 89. I didn't get a good look at the lead tank though.



Mid-grade is blended at the pumps. It states that on the pumps.
Here premium has no ethanol. Regular has 10% ethanol. The mid-grade pump says 5% ethanol so based on the info one has to conclude mid-grade is pump blended.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Mid-grade is blended at the pumps.

Yup. This allows the gas stations to only maintain two tanks instead of 3.

Quote:

Here premium has no ethanol. Regular has 10% ethanol.

Nice. It would have made a nice choice for OPE. Here even premium contains ethanol. Since ethanol acts as an octane booster, some brands of our premium actually have slightly more ethanol than regular.

Quote:

The mid-grade pump says 5% ethanol so based on the info one has to conclude mid-grade is pump blended.

Here, the three octane ratings are 87, 89, and 93. Is it the same in Canada? So, if you were to blend the 89 at the pump, you'd have to take 2/3 of 87 and 1/3 of 93. If regular had 10% ethanol and premium had none, then 89 would have had 6.7%.

 

[Garak]

Ours is usually 87, 89, and 91. Our Husky/Mohawk stations in this province do offer 93, but that's an ethanol blend.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Mid-grade is blended at the pumps.

Yup. This allows the gas stations to only maintain two tanks instead of 3.

Quote:

Here premium has no ethanol. Regular has 10% ethanol.

Nice. It would have made a nice choice for OPE. Here even premium contains ethanol. Since ethanol acts as an octane booster, some brands of our premium actually have slightly more ethanol than regular.

Quote:

The mid-grade pump says 5% ethanol so based on the info one has to conclude mid-grade is pump blended.

Here, the three octane ratings are 87, 89, and 93. Is it the same in Canada? So, if you were to blend the 89 at the pump, you'd have to take 2/3 of 87 and 1/3 of 93. If regular had 10% ethanol and premium had none, then 89 would have had 6.7%.

Originally Posted By: Garak
Ours is usually 87, 89, and 91. Our Husky/Mohawk stations in this province do offer 93, but that's an ethanol blend.


Hey Quattro Pete. Garak has it answered.
The highest octane we can buy at the pump is 91 ethanol free. Mohawk/husky stations have 93/94 octane premium. I'm not exactly sure if it's 94 however I am sure its 93 or higher.
I buy shell gas as a rule or co-op gas. My Harley is very picky when it comes to fuel because of the heads being milled. Co-op fuel and shell fuels don't ping on regular but every other fuel brand locally does ping in it.
Most premium brands won't ping however if the fuel has been sitting for awhile I'll have some sputter and knock so I don't even bother risking it anymore. I know those 2 brands always run fine in my bike so I stick with them.

 

[hattaresguy]

The gas companies are good at marketing, I still don't understand why their is a price difference other than because they can charge more.

 

[randomhero439]

Originally Posted By: SevenBizzos
Originally Posted By: randomhero439
Originally Posted By: SevenBizzos


On the flipside the V6 Accords have reduced HP (like 4 or 5) when they run high octane gas.


My V6 Accord runs better on 93 octane. There is even an article written about the engine stating that it makes +10bhp and +10tq on premium fuel instead of regular. The 3.0L is 10.0:1 compression btw.

USA Today discusses new Accord with Honda engineers

Quote:
The V-6 engine storms. It produces less leap at low speed than you get from the thick torque in the Nissan Altima but otherwise is glorious. It revs so fast to the redline that it'll beat your reflexes, leaving you scrambling to shift the manual transmission to the next higher gear in time.
Torque is the key to quick starts from dead stops. Accord's 240-hp V-6 is rated 212 pounds-feet of torque. Altima's 240-hp V-6 is rated 246 lbs.-ft.

The Accord V-6 ratings assume regular-grade fuel, and Honda will market it as a regular-fuel engine. But — pssst — it's good for another 10 hp and 10-plus lbs.-ft. on premium, acknowledges V-6 engineer Asaki.



Here's a little data from a source that actually tested the V6:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/regular-or-premium-test-results-page-2

I think we'll agree C&D has a little cred.
"The Accord took a tiny step backward in power (minus 2.6 percent) and performance (minus 1.5 percent) on premium fuel"






As expected. They tested the J30A1 in the 1998-2002 Accords. This engine was not equipped with a knock sensor. The J30A4/5 in the 2003-2007 Accords have higher compression and a knock sensor. Hence the computer can advance timing to accommodate the high octane fuel, unlike the J30A1.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
I'm not exactly sure if it's 94 however I am sure its 93 or higher.

Now that you mention it, I'm not sure, either. That shows you how much I go there since they neutered their CAA Dollar affiliation and got rid of mid-grade at regular price.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
The gas companies are good at marketing, I still don't understand why their is a price difference other than because they can charge more.


then you don't understand oil refining...

 

[Durango]

Allot of people feel the same way about running premium in cars that only needs regular. I however like to run mid-grade in my 2013 Camaro and for sure my 08' Impala SS requires premium.


Durango

 

[Benzadmiral]

The Buick PA is rated for regular. One time, early in my ownership of it, I filled up with 93 (ethanol-free, same as the regular I'd been using) to see what might happen. I drove my standard route to and from work, no traffic jams, etc.

My gas mileage went down. I switched back to regular and have stayed with it since.

 

[Peted]

Originally Posted By: stchman
I had a discussion with someone the other day and we got on the topic of 87 vs. 93 octane gas.

He said that he uses premium in all his cars as the engine will last longer. What a bunch of [censored].

I told that if the manual does not state to use premium, then its use is at best a waste of money.

He said that his cars "feel" better when they run premium. Sounds like the placebo effect has kicked in.

A few months ago I tried running a couple of tanks of 93 in my Silverado and guess what, no change in mileage or power feel. All I did was waste ~$7 a tank.

He did not want to believe me that octane is just a combustion inhibitor. Oh well.


Sad to say, but You're in the wrong. I have your twin truck and 93 definitely makes a difference. Smoother idle, slightly better mpg .5-1, over all a slightly better sounding/running engine, a small difference but a difference none the less. You most likely can't notice small fluctuations in the engine. Some are able to, some are not. Or because you are so set on your bias, it inhibits you to notice any difference at all..

Originally Posted By: mattwithcats
Gas companies got you coming and going, and they are laughing each way...

Higher octane fuel has fewer calories than lower octane, hence less energy per gallon...

In a car that does not require premium, putting premium in just wastes money and results in lower MPG....

I run 85 octane when I can get it...


Ok. Gas is not food.

Secondly, most posters in this thread have experiences that tend to state otherwise. That being, even if a vehicle recommends 87 in the manual, the vehicle will run better on 93.

 

[rjundi]

I am going to say this as blasphemy on my an oil forum.

I feel same way about using synthetic motor oil in my vehicle(07 Acura MDX and 05 Legacy Turbo wagon) that only requires dino oil. Waste of money and I "feel" no difference. I run my vehicles in the 200k-250k range and have had wonderful service simply using the spec'd dino oil with never an oil related failure. This includes a prior 1991 Subaru turbo Legacy.

Both vehicles I do run premium as I notice a power drop and definite 1-2MPG fuel economy loss using regular.