Redline 5w40 BMW M2 S55

[Saintjah]

Basic run of UOAs, missing one there 18 and 26 k but it was also changed at 22k and again at 26. Results were all very similar. My main curiousity on the oil argument when it comes down to Redline and Motul 8100, is that mainly a cost based argument for street use?

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Thank you so much for posting. I have been considering Red Line 5W-40 for a while now for our 2017 Santa Fe, which allows (and likes) 5W-40 motor oil. However, I was concerned that it was a bit too thick, considering it's Red Line.

Before I comment further about your UOAs, I want to ask: are all the samples Red Line 5W-40?

 

[Saintjah]

Thank you so much for posting. I have been considering Red Line 5W-40 for a while now for our 2017 Santa Fe, which allows (and likes) 5W-40 motor oil. However, I was concerned that it was a bit too thick, considering it's Red Line.

Before I comment further about your UOAs, I want to ask: are all the samples Red Line 5W-40?

Yes, all changes since the factory fill have been Redline

 

[OVERKILL]

Basic run of UOAs, missing one there 18 and 26 k but it was also changed at 22k and again at 26. Results were all very similar. My main curiousity on the oil argument when it comes down to Redline and Motul 8100, is that mainly a cost based argument for street use?

Your 15,000 mile sample is of interest because it shows significantly more fuel + thickening, which we saw with another BMW engine in another thread. This is typically oxidation.

Would you be willing to consider using another lab that properly measures fuel?

 

[Saintjah]

Your 15,000 mile sample is of interest because it shows significantly more fuel + thickening, which we saw with another BMW engine in another thread. This is typically oxidation.

Would you be willing to consider using another lab that properly measures fuel?

That was the only sample that displayed extra fuel dilution. I attribute it to it being a very cold winter and very short trips. I was less than 2 miles from work, so I figure that is why it was higher.

 

[OVERKILL]

That was the only sample that displayed extra fuel dilution. I attribute it to it being a very cold winter and very short trips. I was less than 2 miles from work, so I figure that is why it was higher.

Problem is, Blackstone doesn't actually measure fuel dilution, they infer it from flashpoint, so it's almost always WAY off. If you check out Kevin's thread, he has two BMW UOA's on the same oil from two different labs. Blackstone showed no fuel, Polaris/OAI showed 3% fuel because they use GC and properly measure it.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Yes, all changes since the factory fill have been Redline

Do you by any chance still have any of the jugs? I'm curious about the stamped manufacturing code. I wanted to try and decode when it was manufactured.

The additive numbers seem to be a little bit all over the place.

Molybdenum should be around 500 ppm.

ZDDP fluctuates quite a bit between samples.

I am starting to wonder about the consistency of their blending process, quality control, and formulation changes that they keep quiet.

Red Line 5W-40 is supposed to be thicker than other 5W-40 oils, according to their website:

we saw with another BMW engine in another thread

Red Line 5W-X and 10W-X oils aren't supposed to behave like this, even with fuel dilution. At the low miles of each OCI, coupled with the heat that a twin-turbo makes, the Red Line 5W-40 should have been at around ~14 cSt @ 100C in each sample. Something tells me that they ... cheapened their formulation.

As a Red Line customer, this doesn't make me happy because from how things look here, this oil performs about the same as any other Euro 5W-40. Sure, it's good that it does, but not at $60 a gallon.

The Silicon levels look perfectly normal for Red Line.

That was the only sample that displayed extra fuel dilution. I attribute it to it being a very cold winter and very short trips. I was less than 2 miles from work, so I figure that is why it was higher.

All your samples have fuel dilution, some more, some less. The flash point of RL 5W-40 is pretty high when new.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

@Saintjah, I have briefly browsed the UOA section of the forum, and it seems that Red Line 0W-40 and 5W-40 have each a slightly different additive package, while Red Line 5W-20 and 5W-30 use one that's identical.

I am too tired now, and it's late, but I will do some more digging. @Saintjah, if you have any concerns about your results, please PM me, and I will let you know who to contact at Red Line to ask questions. They have a big community of BMW enthusiasts, so I'm sure they can answer any questions you may have. I assumed they used the same additive package across the line in their High-Performance lineup, except for their low(mid)-SAPS Euro oils. I may have been wrong. As I said, I will revisit this issue soon.

Here is a VOA I found for RL 5W-40: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/red-line-5w40.330734/

Looking over the numbers, I hope you realize why I'm looking a bit cross-eyed at your results. I'm not saying they're bad by any means, they're just a bit weird for Red Line, especially the additive fluctuations from UOA to UOA, given that there isn't a huge variation in mileage between samples.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Basic run of UOAs, missing one there 18 and 26 k but it was also changed at 22k and again at 26. Results were all very similar. My main curiousity on the oil argument when it comes down to Redline and Motul 8100, is that mainly a cost based argument for street use?

Are you tuned?

Redline Performance is great for racing and in the past UOA's would show that it was best to change at around 7k miles. Personally even if tuned I would run the 5w30 (HTHS 3.7) version in your S55 as it is what RL has historically recommended for BMW M engines in track condition. You're robbing yourself of power with the HTHS of 4.4 .

Motul 8100 as a line is fine. Should perform no better or worse than RL. From cost perspective it depends on your OCI. I don't know why you're changing your oil every 4k miles (Lack of driving so you're hitting the 1 year mark?) but by changing so early you're not realizing the performance advantage of these more expensive oils. Pennzoil 5w30 Euro L, Euro 5w40 as well as the same product in the Quaker State label would perform just as well on such a short OCI and be more cost effective.,

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Redline Performance is great for racing and in the past UOA's would show that it was best to change at around 7k miles.

It's a shame that getting your money's worth out of Red Line is hard. At least I hope it provides good wear protection.

Personally even if tuned I would run the 5w30 (HTHS 3.7) version in your S55 as it is what RL has historically recommended for BMW M engines in track condition. You're robbing yourself of power with the HTHS of 4.4 .

The Red Line 5W-30 is their best offering for engines requiring HTHS over 3.5, and 5W-20 for engines requiring ~3.0 or lower. Their 0W-X offerings aren't that great. If I decide to stick with Red Line in my Durango, I will probably switch to at least 5W-20. Of course, a Twin-Turbo BMW engine, the S55 nonetheless, is an entirely different ballgame. That's a sweet powerhouse!

Motul 8100 as a line is fine. Should perform no better or worse than RL.

I have a friend that tracks his cars. He owns a few sweet rides like a 911, a Maseratti, a couple of Minis, etc. He's a car guy, works on his engines, etc. I met him through a local engine builder. He doesn't think much of Red Line, he thinks that it's appropriate for street use, and that's about it. He's top pick is Motul. To each his own, I guess, but I tend to value people's opinions with real-world experience.

I'm like @buster and others who went back and forth with Red Line over the years. It seems to be one of those lubricants we can't exactly figure out due to a lack of data. I'm puzzled about these UOA results because of the drop in Moly and the variation of ZDDP from sample to sample. It's evident that there is fuel dilution involved, so I recommend that @Saintjah sends samples to Oil Analyzers for actual fuel dilution numbers. I'd be curious to know what @kschachn thinks of the oil's condition based on these UOAs.

 

[buster]

RL seems to do well in certain engines, BMW and Subarus come to mind. The bearing materials must be different because you rarely if ever see high Pb like other UOA's with RL.

RL's best attribute IMO is how shear stable it is. Viscosity will generally only go up. Very shear stable.

 

[OVERKILL]

RL seems to do well in certain engines, BMW and Subarus come to mind. The bearing materials must be different because you rarely if ever see high Pb like other UOA's with RL.

RL's best attribute IMO is how shear stable it is. Viscosity will generally only go up. Very shear stable.

Which makes this series interesting, because viscosity clearly went down.

 

[UG_Passat]

Motul 8100 is the Michelin of oils. Both are french, and people will use them no matter what. Unlike Michelin though, there's nothing remarkable about Motul 8100 X-cess 5w40. You can buy oil at Wal-Mart that is superior to Motul 8100 X-cess (both original and Gen2)

Motul 8100 is a Group III oil, vs Redline's PAO/Ester base. The only notable thing about the X-cess Gen2 is LL01, which according to some people, you must use a BMW-spec oil or your engine will self destruct.

If you're stuck on Motul, and want it to be in the similar conversation as Redline High performance, they have 300V series, which the 5w40 is a Group III/V (Octadecene) base blend oil, with a similar additive package to redline HP

 

[travis8352]

Moly has been steadily decreasing over the past few years but they will still tell you it contains 600ppm moly if you ask them

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Motul 8100 is the Michelin of oils. Both are french, and people will use them no matter what. Unlike Michelin though, there's nothing remarkable about Motul 8100 X-cess 5w40. You can buy oil at Wal-Mart that is superior to Motul 8100 X-cess (both original and Gen2)

This is speculation on my part, but there are some pretty good indications that Infineum is Motul's additive supplier. Working with a company like Infineum opens many technological doors and possibilities so to speak, enabling Motul to make good products.

Which makes this series interesting, because viscosity clearly went down.

It's weird for sure. Look at the VOA versus the UOAs the OP posted. Even with fuel dilution, Red Line 5W-40 should have stayed close to its virgin viscosity, but it didn't. The 5W-40 might be their best blend. From what I've seen, their 0W-40 is even worse. I'm probably repeating myself, but looking at @TiGeo's UOAs, the run-of-the-mill 5W-40 he ran held up pretty well under what seem harsher conditions.

I would tell the OP to give Mobil 1 FS 5W-40 a try, even though it does not carry any BMW approvals. It's more than likely blended with a VW502 additive package.

@High Performance Lubricants is something I'd run in that fantastic S55 engine. @Saintjah contact HPL and see if they have any recommendations for you. Their lubricants are leaps and bounds beyond Motul's offerings.

Moly has been steadily decreasing over the past few years but they will still tell you it contains 600ppm moly if you ask them

The tech guys at Red Line are a tiny bit disconnected, but they usually run to their chemists when they can't answer a question. Ron Howell isn't the only one working there by the way.

 

[UG_Passat]

This is speculation on my part, but there are some pretty good indications that Infineum is Motul's additive supplier. Working with a company like Infineum opens many technological doors and possibilities so to speak, enabling Motul to make good products.

Look at the VOA's for 8100 X-cess 5w40. Nothing exotic about their VOA's, maybe some Boron for EP/AW, but that's about it.

Compared to Redline HP 5w40 (and it's not a Euro 5w40)

Redline 5w40 VOA

 

[Saintjah]

Are you tuned?

Redline Performance is great for racing and in the past UOA's would show that it was best to change at around 7k miles. Personally even if tuned I would run the 5w30 (HTHS 3.7) version in your S55 as it is what RL has historically recommended for BMW M engines in track condition. You're robbing yourself of power with the HTHS of 4.4 .

Motul 8100 as a line is fine. Should perform no better or worse than RL. From cost perspective it depends on your OCI. I don't know why you're changing your oil every 4k miles (Lack of driving so you're hitting the 1 year mark?) but by changing so early you're not realizing the performance advantage of these more expensive oils. Pennzoil 5w30 Euro L, Euro 5w40 as well as the same product in the Quaker State label would perform just as well on such a short OCI and be more cost effective.,

OEM tune and mostly a DD with spirited driving on the freeways. Many frequent short trips, im less than 2 miles from work.

 

[Saintjah]

Heres one of the missing reports, not sure why they keep saying its an M3.... Same car and same oil.

 

[Saintjah]

My primary goal is the best engine protection, cost and fuel economy are not important.

 

[bulwnkl]

The tech guys at Red Line are a tiny bit disconnected, but they usually run to their chemists when they can't answer a question. Ron Howell isn't the only one working there by the way.

Is that Roy's kid, or just a coincidental name?