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I've lived in such countries. They may have less money in the bank but they don't worry about education or retirement. Or getting sick, or having a roof over their heads, or safety.
Record Surge in Past-Due Student Loans Adds to US Debt Burden
- Thread starter Dave Hess
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I’m lived in Europe all of much childhood and teenage years, what you’re describing can be found in US as well.
They may not be worried about education costs over there, but most are heavily impacted by super high energy costs and high taxes.
Simply put, they have different challenges and life is not as care free over there as you think. In fact from my experience, making a good living is easier in US than over there.
Yes, throughout history certain job fields have come and gone. Its funny when you think about it but with AI around the corner many jobs in the "trades" will be far more secure then desk jobs. College students should use critical thinking and take a safe route in field that need hands on human personnel. Health is a big field, one that take sacrifice but the field is huge. ANY hands on trade of course that isnt a desk job too. Many advanced trade jobs are under staffed, you can start low and the company will pay for you to advance yourself through education.
Or we are talking about the tons of other things the government restricts or regulates to “protect” the public. An 18 yrs old can take out $50,000 of unsecured debt with no plan for repayment putting themselves into debt slavery. But God forbid that same 18 yrs old wants some beer on the weekends or a handgun for self protection. Not responsible enough to make those decisions I guess.
Either do I have to worry or anyone I know. Heck because of this, it's exactly why I would not want to live anyplace else. My retirement secure, getting sick? I have spot on perfect health care with Medicare (GREAT SYSTEM that works well) nice retirement home in a resort community.
In another thread is my 6 months of cancer treatment (to be updated soon) The one a day drug pill alone was roughly $18,000 latest greatest drug. My cost in the hundreds, that's it. Radiation I havent total the numbers yet, cost to me almost nothing. 7 or 8 doctors I have seen this year, my cost maybe a $20 co-pay at first visit.
What else can I ask for? This is why I cant complain.
I am not unique at all. IN fact many in this forum are FAR, far more wealthy than my wife and I. (not that we are not secure)
I know some with dual citizenship, about to retire, will collect Social Security here and Medicare. Will have two homes, one here and one in Asia. When needing health care in a critical situation they will fly here, unless they are already here spending some time. Yet overseas they have good hospitals for them being they are wealthy but the draw of American health care is the standard for many.
Im sure there are other places but it wont be the UK or EU. I think places like Dubai etc. No hand outs there either.
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I worked with people from Canada that hated the system that people think is so great here. High taxes and it is first come first serve for any medical care. You will wait all day if your child has an ear infection because of all the homeless drug addicts waiting in line before you for example. They told me that many people had private medical insurance to avoid this. Apparently there are private doctors?
While I don't always believe that Doctors were untrustworthy (maybe up until the 1970s most were) but today I don't trust any of them...it's all about the last red cent they can squeeze out of a patient desperate to find a solution to their health issues.You know who's most likely to default on student loans? Doctors
Owen Lucas
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This is called "having lower standards".
Are you the fittest in every situation? When you go about your day, are you not dealing with huge corporations (ie a collective group of people with a common financial interest) who dwarf you financially speaking and could ruin you without protections within the laws. Do you want those protections in place or are you OK with possibly being a stronger entity’s next meal?
You, nor I, would survive a minute in the "survival of the fittest".
If it were really survival of the fittest we would have bankers, not the government, dishing out these loans. In which case we wouldn't have said problem. Of course, we wouldn't have enough nurses or doctors to care for any of us - which would be OK, as soon as were too old to be of value as a working serf they would be happy to let us die. Survival of the fittest and all.
Good point but taken out of context regarding your post about dysfunctional parenting.
People will survive or fail and if you’re going to blame parenting, not everyone can be saved. I have my own kids. I don’t need anymore.
I think you’re assumption, even though it’s unrelated to my previous post that if there weren’t government loans, we wouldn’t have enough doctors or nurses. I don’t agree, we don’t know what we would have and what type of financing would be available from bankers and colleges. In addition costs would be significantly lower.
Many students go overseas to medical universities without government loans and much much lower costs. They then come back to the United States. Take their medical exams and become doctors here.
Part of the reason we have many doctors from many nationalities in the United States. Many of them obtained their degree in their home countries.
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No - I responded to someone that said parents should keep their kids from taking these loans, and you took me out of context.
You brought up survival of the fittest, which I believe was hypocritical. I agree its not our job to raise others kids. But its hypocritical to say were OK with an 18 year old risking their life to protect our freedom overseas, or to take on a lifetime of debt servitude to be our doctor, but its not OK for them to buy a beer or a gun.
I said from square one on this thread that government has no business in student loans. My contention is its the governments fault, because they offer - even coerce kids via public schools to go take these loans, and then leave them with no way out.
Yes, because med school is too expensive here, so a good portion of the smartest kids become bankers, not doctors, to all of our detriment.
Clearly we wont agree 100% on each other posts but no sense to continue from here because between us our conversations end up in an endless maze. For example how did an 18 year old risking their life get involved? Also doctors do not take on a lifetime of debt. Debt of all types is what an individual decides to take on. Heck, they can even be a teacher or an accountant taking on a lifetime of debt. Personal bad choices with borrowing money from all sources and an unclear goal when they start college. Wasted massive amount of borrowing from bad choices and fields they never go into.
I have a family member that will be finishing up her internship and move onto a $300,000 a year income as a doctor, even at her "young age" yet she paid for that income through hard work, working a massive amount of hours (even sleeping in the hospital like you see on TV shows. to tired to go home only to return to work) unlike many are willing to do. Her debt will not be a lifetime of debt servitude. Not even close and she will now be able to enjoy the fruits of her labor. IT drives me nuts when people discredit doctors salaries. Those who do, should become doctors then.
One thing we agree (which I did not know) government has no business being in the loan business but then again, why deny the vast majority of students who made good use of their loans? Back to survival of the fittest. There will always be those that fail, sad but tough luck. In the meantime like you said, society benefited by those who focused and used that money wisely. Moved on to doctors, attorneys and all professional fields.
Argument zig-zagging. Bit of an offshoot.
18 year old's cannot buy booze--but they can join the military (where they can risk their lives) and they can sign up for debt which will weigh them down for their rest of their lives (a similar life altering decision). Why is that they are mature enough to serve their county, with blood if necessary--but can't buy booze? oh they're too immature. And in the services, they would be operating under a chain of command with "good" oversight. Yet they can sign their lives away with debt that cannot be discharged, if they chose poorly.
It's a strange level of expectations of these mature/immature people.
Anyhow. Not quite 100% relevant here.
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When I was in college, the dropout rate for engineering was 50%. Most of those students went on to other degrees--no idea how fruitful those paths were. No idea what dropout rate is for doctors, attorneys, et al. Question being, how many rack up a year or two before washing out--yet have that debt all the same?
I guess some will fail and they will just have to carry that failure forward.
I agree. The whole booze thing also with a twist, drinking age in NY was 18 at the time of the Vietnam draft.
Anyway, society says they are mature enough to serve. Yet NOT mature enough to drink and yet again ARE mature enough to vote.
Go figure, I guess it's one of those things. The big difference from decades ago is today it is military voluntary and certainly can be maybe more useful than college.
One could look at the military as "college" you can CERTAINLY learn a field that pays handsomely in the private sector once you served or you can make a career out of it.
Some (one of which I know is now the CEO of a certain company. Unbelievable success story coming from nothing after leaving the military and a couple years of a struggle.
Much of the armed forces is technology, hands on technology, the other is engineering, not just "systems" but entire communities.
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Sometimes that's difficult to plan on. Sure some jobs like a trial lawyer, etc pay well but others don't pay as well or in some cases haven't been invented. My degree is in Journalism, which has areas that pay well but alot of news jobs now would rather hire college students for 20ish an hour than pay a full-time employee good money. Adele Arawakawa was a well-known Denver news anchor. I was able to interview her for a school assignment. She was pulling down over $250k a year to host the nightly news now they don't pay even close to that unless you're on the Today show or something.
I will say that there are alot of "degrees" that 20 years ago you didn't need. Hospitality management is one. There's nothing a book can tell you that you couldn't learn working at a hotel or resort.
Is such a degree "needed"? I mean, I don't know anything about the hotel business, but do they, when they need managers, look at resumes and are rejecting those who don't claim to have this degree and/or 10 years experience?
I guess they could be now, if there were enough people who got degrees over the last number of years.
The problem now is It seems like some industries are in cahoots with universities. To run a hotel you don't need a degree in "Hospitality management " . That's only recently become a degree that's offered. I had a boss that ran a hotel with a basic business degree I think. He started working nights then bought into the hotel as a 1/3rd owner. Two brothers were the majority owners. Alot of working in hospitality is customer service and knowing your clientele. There's no book that can teach you that.
My old neighbor had a hospitality degree. He ran the events department at a really fancy private golf club. Then he worked at one of Trump's clubs, then a couple other clubs. I don't know - I seem to think he wouldn't have gotten those opportunities without a degree.
Most engineering degrees don't have anything to do with the real world. I work with mechanical, electrical, industrial and computer and other types of engineers all now doing mostly the same thing. Engineering school just teaches you how to think like an engineer. Friend of mine had a civil engineering degree ended up being high up in drilling at a big oil company.
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