Recommendation for Subaru Outback

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Originally Posted By: oilnoob425
Originally Posted By: harrydog
Any suggestions? Any other tires that I should consider?


Yes, two proper sets of seasonal tires because with all-seasons you only fooling yourself.


As someone who knows what snow / ice is and drives in it all the time you should try some modern tires.

They have made SERIOUS improvements to all seasons. The triple treads are as good in ice and almost (within 5-10%) of my dedicated snows.

I was in such a bad snow storm that had 4x4 trucks stuck (took 6 hours to go 50 miles) and the "all seasons" NEVER slipped going up serious grades (the freeways were closed, frontage roads with blowing snow were you only way to get through).

I used to think like you do, but I've learned that they do make all seasons that actually work... In all seasons.

bill
 
Harrydog,
Just like you, I just did a tire search for my Altima and my wifes RX-300 AWD. I expect that any of the tires that you listed will be just fine as I too studied the ratings and reviews from thetirerack and discounttiredirect. Now, narrow down you choices to which ever tire meets most of you criteria(smooth/quiet, wet weather traction, dry handling, longevity etc). I checked all prices including treadepot.com(no tire reviews at tp.com). I ended up with Pirelli P4's for the Altima and GoodYear Assurance Comfort Treads for the Lexus.
No snow as of yet in my area but I expect both tires to do well. Im thinking that I should have gone with the Yoko Avid TRZ for the Altima after getting/seeing the P4's close up, mainly due to the P4's center sections sipes not being very deep. But, I didn't want to pay to ship them back and place another order. The sipes look no deeper than angeled slices with a utility knife. The sipes in the center section may only last 1 or 2 seasons before the center sipes are gone. I may have to sipe them myself when this happens. The rest of the tire(P4's)look to last a long time.
I really want All Season Tires for the winter because I've never needed more. Got both the P4's and the GYACT's for a good price. The Comfort Treads(not Tripple Treads like you listed), have sipes that travel all the way through the tread blocks and should last just about as long as the tires. Rated for around 80,000 miles, even if I only get 50,000 miles out of them, they will have sipes and blocks to the end.

The Pirelli's balanced first time and are quiet thus far although a bit harsh in the ride dept with good wet handling.

The GYACT had to be rebalanced on 2 of the 4 tires. The GYACT's are very fitting for my wifes AWD. Just what we're looking for. Could be a little better riding over sharp inpacts on the road. They're supposed to cushin the impact bumps better than other tires(by 20% says GY) but I don't really feel the difference nor does my wife. They are more stable on the freeway than the Ingegrity's that we replaced.
 
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
..........They have made SERIOUS improvements to all seasons. The triple treads are as good in ice and almost (within 5-10%) of my dedicated snows. ..............


Serious improvements have also been made to winter tires. The best winter tires will handily outperform the best all-season tires on ice and snow. Based on test results I have read over the last 3 years.
 
Originally Posted By: Jason Adcock
Originally Posted By: harrydog
I was in Costco yesterday but didn't think of looking at their tires. I'll check them out. I doubt they will be cheaper than Tire Rack but you never know.


I absolutely bet they will. I've looked at Tire Rack for the last three sets of tires I've bought, and I've never had the cost even break-even. In fact, I've often saved at least $100 buying locally. When you add the cost of shipping and installation, Tire Rack always prices itself out of consideration for me. I typically buy Michelins at Sam's Club, and Tire Rack can't come close.

My very last set of tires were Yokohama Avid TRZs. Although I bought them at cost through a friend, I also price-shopped. Merchant's Tire had them for $73.99 each, plus $10 each for installation, in my size (P195/65R15). Total cost = $336 plus local taxes like tire fees, etc. Tire Rack is $69.00 each. That's $276 for the tires, but I need to add $40.70 for the cheapest shipping method. I also need to add at least another $40 for installation. $276 + $80 = $356. I'm already higher than Merchant's Tire, and on top of that, I don't have a local face to talk to if I have an issue with a tire.

Of all the tires I've bought, or price-shopped for others, Tire Rack has always been more expensive, every time.



Try Treaddepot.com, same prices as TR with free shipping.
 
Here are some numbers to ponder, taken from Motor magazines testing of winter tires in 2006, in Norway. They tested braking on ice, from a speed of 31mph, and measured braking distance:

Dunlop 3D: 79.0m

Michelin X-Ice: 66.0m

Nokian Hakka5 (studded): 48.5m

The Dunlop requires an extra 100ft to stop on ice, compared to the studded Nokian!
The Michelin requires an extra 57ft to stop on ice, compared to the studded Nokian!


The Dunlop is a "performance winter", which is essentially an all-season tire with enhanced ice and snow performance. And it was blown away by the other two tires.
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Try Treaddepot.com, same prices as TR with free shipping.


Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, they don't sell Yokohamas.

Just to compare, for Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S, 195/65R15:

Treaddepot: $114 ea. plus $9 shipping each (they did not offer free shipping). Total is $492, and that's just to my door. Figure another $7.50 each for installation at Wal-Mart and I'm at $522.

Sam's Club: $107 ea. plus $9.50 each for installation. Total is $466 installed.

Why buy online? Even if Treaddepot DID offer me free shipping, I'm STILL ahead buying local.
 
Originally Posted By: Jason Adcock
Just to compare, for Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S, 195/65R15:

Treaddepot: $114 ea. plus $9 shipping each (they did not offer free shipping). Total is $492, and that's just to my door. Figure another $7.50 each for installation at Wal-Mart and I'm at $522.

Sam's Club: $107 ea. plus $9.50 each for installation. Total is $466 installed.

Why buy online? Even if Treaddepot DID offer me free shipping, I'm STILL ahead buying local.


This was my experience as well. The best deal (installed) on the LTX's on my Silverado was through Sam's.
 
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
..........They have made SERIOUS improvements to all seasons. The triple treads are as good in ice and almost (within 5-10%) of my dedicated snows. ..............


Serious improvements have also been made to winter tires. The best winter tires will handily outperform the best all-season tires on ice and snow. Based on test results I have read over the last 3 years.

But they will not perform as well in the dry and probably not as well in the wet and they will most likely wear out sooner as well.
If snow/ice performance were my main concern, I would buy winter tires. But I want a tire that will perform as well as possible in all conditions. I think the vast majority of tire buyers want the same thing. As a consequence there is probably more R&D money being spent on A/S tire development than anything else.
There is really no need to try to convince others that dedicated winter tires work better in snow and ice - we already knew that. The point is, all-season tires are improving to the point that they make very good sense for most people.
 
Another tire that someone suggested to me is the Cooper CS4 Touring. I've never even considered buying Cooper tires because I thought they weren't up to the quality standards of the well known brands. But the CS4 sounds like a very good tire. Supposedly they spent $200 million on the development of this tire and it underwent ten thousand hours of lab tests and five million miles of vehicle testing before being deemed ready for market.
Still, I doubt I'd buy them without hearing good feedback from users.
 
Originally Posted By: harrydog
With advances in tread compounds and designs you can get decent snow performance and excellent dry/wet performance in a single tire if you choose carefully. That's why I'm deliberating so much over my choice.


No you can't. With above said advances you can only choose either good winter or summer tire but not both. It is simply immposible to combine all of the properties to make a tire that is "decent" on snow and "excelent" on dry/wet performance. It just isn't. If you telling yourself that than you are indeed trying to fool yourself. Just results of clever advertising going against laws of physics and chemistry.

I understand you don't want hassles but, I'm just saying don't be overly optimistic about All Season tires cause in general scoop of things they all suck in different ways. I seen it many times when new A/S tire owners write exhilarated reviews on TireRack but later on dissapointment sets in and 20-30 thousand miles later they start whining about this and that. Dedicated season tires are on the whole different level, let alone their investment and usage pattern is actually making sense.
 
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
They have made SERIOUS improvements to all seasons. The triple treads are as good in ice and almost (within 5-10%) of my dedicated snows.

I was in such a bad snow storm that had 4x4 trucks stuck (took 6 hours to go 50 miles) and the "all seasons" NEVER slipped going up serious grades (the freeways were closed, frontage roads with blowing snow were you only way to get through).


My sister has brand new Triple Treads on her car. Guess who had to drive through one hellish Wisconsin snow storm last winter to push her out? Meeeeeeeeeee:)))))))) 'Nuff said.
 
Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
I'm with Bill on this one. All season tires are closing the gap every year.


You adorable:))))))
 
Originally Posted By: oilnoob425
Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
I'm with Bill on this one. All season tires are closing the gap every year.


You adorable:))))))


You are not!
39.gif
 
Originally Posted By: harrydog
But I want a tire that will perform as well as possible in all conditions.

The point is, all-season tires are improving to the point that they make very good sense for most people.


Correct word would be "as mediocre" as possible not "as well".

That's the point A/S CANNOT improve they can only tweak and shift their pattern and compaund priorities from one property to another and that's it. There are only that much you can do when you have to compromise A LOT OF THINGS in only one tire.

If you choose to fight common sense or belive adverising "miracles" go ahead, but they are NOT IMPROVING because they are unimprovable by their design, they can only change from one priority to another and that's it.
 
Originally Posted By: oilnoob425
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
They have made SERIOUS improvements to all seasons. The triple treads are as good in ice and almost (within 5-10%) of my dedicated snows.

I was in such a bad snow storm that had 4x4 trucks stuck (took 6 hours to go 50 miles) and the "all seasons" NEVER slipped going up serious grades (the freeways were closed, frontage roads with blowing snow were you only way to get through).


My sister has brand new Triple Treads on her car. Guess who had to drive through one hellish Wisconsin snow storm last winter to push her out? Meeeeeeeeeee:)))))))) 'Nuff said.


I'm sure how someone drives and what skill they have does not matter either.

I'm just reporting that the Triple treads are very impressive. They work about as well as ANY unstudded tire I've used in any vehicle. 4x4, AWD, FWD, RWD.

Studs do work slightly better on ice I've found and stink on wet or dry.

I'm happy with them. Guess I'm lucky.
 
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
I'm sure how someone drives and what skill they have does not matter either.

I'm just reporting that the Triple treads are very impressive. They work about as well as ANY unstudded tire I've used in any vehicle. 4x4, AWD, FWD, RWD.

Studs do work slightly better on ice I've found and stink on wet or dry.

I'm happy with them. Guess I'm lucky.


You got wrong idea about my sister. She isn't some teenage girl who just got her license yesterday. She is older and more experienced driver than I am. She is a home health nurse and has to travel to her clients in any weather. Many of her clients live in poor neigborhoods where they don't have a lot of budget for snow plowing and they just leave the snow laying there without removing it, so on the top of bad snow storm, snow also accumulates, but that's not an excuse not to go there when weather is bad. And as it turned out Triple Treads weren't up for the challenge. And beloved here A/S Michelin Exaltos which she has on her other car weren't either, BTW.

Now you say Triple Treads are immpressive, but compared to what? And what "ANY unstudded tire" means? Unstudded winter or A/S tire?? And what brands and models were they? I guess looking at their pattern Triple Treads are good on ice, but comes snow or summer they just turn regular mediocre tire. Traction and safety are interchangable and extremly important in every season so I choose not to compromise. Quality tires are always on the top of my priorities list. I'd rather compromise on something much less important like that huge plasma TV, surround sound or something like that.

Now another question, what car did you drive in that bad snow storm that you mentioned in your earlier post?

P.S. Studded tires are illegal in WI.
 
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
I'm happy with them. Guess I'm lucky.


No, Bill, you're not lucky. Regardless of what some think, you and a lot of us know that all-season tires have come a long way from where they used to be. Of course they're still a compromise, but the delta between true winter tires and all-season tires has closed dramatically. There will still be folks who tell us we're wrong, though.

A buddy of mine lives in New Hampshire. He used to run winter tires, but quit doing so when the TripleTreds came out in the 2002-2003 time frame. He said the TripleTreds' grip and general snow traction was on-par with the winter tires he had, and didn't see the need for a dedicated set of winter tires. Another friend of mine lives in Wisconsin, and RAVES about the Cooper CS4. He said that they have VERY good winter traction in his opinion, and is better than the Michelin X-Ices that he used to use during the winter. He sold the X-Ices and now uses the Coopers year-round.

There will always be doubters. I know that's a new concept here at BITOG, but we'll muddle through.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: oilnoob425
Originally Posted By: harrydog
But I want a tire that will perform as well as possible in all conditions.

The point is, all-season tires are improving to the point that they make very good sense for most people.


Correct word would be "as mediocre" as possible not "as well".

That's the point A/S CANNOT improve they can only tweak and shift their pattern and compaund priorities from one property to another and that's it. There are only that much you can do when you have to compromise A LOT OF THINGS in only one tire.

If you choose to fight common sense or belive adverising "miracles" go ahead, but they are NOT IMPROVING because they are unimprovable by their design, they can only change from one priority to another and that's it.

A/S tires can not improve? That's simply a ridiculous statement. They're improving all the time. Some of the current A/S will outperform a dedicated winter tire from years ago. That's improvement. And it will continue to improve. Just like multi-weight oils have dramatically improved due to advances in base stocks, etc., advances in tire compounds are leading to improved performance in all conditions.
And I don't believe advertising. In fact, I don't even recall seeing much advertising for A/S tires. What I do believe are my own experiences. I've been driving for almost 40 years and I've lived in some places that get some severe winter weather. I know for a fact that the A/S tires available today are more than adequate for the vast majority of drivers out there. There may be a bit of a trade off, but it isn't nearly as much as you're trying to make us believe.
 
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