If you do the AutoRx thing, PulMax, I, for one, would be very interested to see another set of removed cam cover pictures posted of the results. Keep in mind that if a chemically loosened glop of this baked-on crud lodges in an oil return passage or clogs the oil pickup screen, your current dismay could rapidly escalate to something much worse. ("I love the smell of a protruding connecting rod in the morning. It smells like ... disaster." -Not Patton)
Pulled the Camry's valve cover gasket today (big pics inside)
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Welp, I just ordered 4 bottles of AutoRX (just enough for the Camry, the smoking Plymouth Voyager I posted about earlier, and my Volvo 240) and some cheap oil filters for both the Camry and the Van. Depending on how it works on those cars, I might try it out on my dad's 1986 Nissan Pulsar NX (105k miles) and my 1981 Datsun 210 1.5 (97k miles)
As soon as the stuff gets here, its time to do some AutoRXing
I'll probably pick up a couple cases of Chevron Supreme or whatever is cheap and get to work.
[ April 02, 2006, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: PulMax ]
As soon as the stuff gets here, its time to do some AutoRXing
[ April 02, 2006, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: PulMax ]
What a mess!! Why where the 'almost perfect' toyota engines prone to this sludge build up???
My opinion: The Toyota engineers just pushed the operating envelope of these engines a tad too far (e.g. head temps, oil flow), and apparently failed to realistically assess what would happen "out in the field" when real customers got their hands on the product. After some stubborn-ness, Toyota seems to have responded appropriately. They have adjusted warranty protection for most owners. As for the engines, the I-4 (5S-FE) was allowed to go extinct (superceded by a new I-4, the larger 2AZ), and the V-6 received design improvements aimed at eliminating the problem. That series, the xMZ-FE is living out its last production days in 3.3L form with the sludge rep a seeming thing of the past.
Of course, one should keep this in perspective. Probably any engine, regardless of reputation, can be made to sludge up if a neglectful owner works hard enough at it.
Once again, I'm going to jump into the middle of a toyota post with the news no-one except the owner really wants to hear....
It's a Toyota 4-cylinder. It doesn't really matter what you do or don't do to it - It will last to 300,000 miles without trying. The V-6's maybe a different story, but for the 4's, lack of maintenance will not kill them.
Don't worry about it!
It's a Toyota 4-cylinder. It doesn't really matter what you do or don't do to it - It will last to 300,000 miles without trying. The V-6's maybe a different story, but for the 4's, lack of maintenance will not kill them.
Don't worry about it!
Blokey:
Off the top of my head, I believe the engine improvements hit production during the 02 Model Year, and obviously remained in place until the 3.3L engine replaced the 3.0L in the Highlander. If you have a 3.3L engine (the 3MZ-FE), you are 100% post-sludge. If you have a 3.0L (1MZ-FE engine) then I think you're good to go, but I'm not positive about that. Again, even the "sludge prone" ones are not "spring loaded" to sludge up on you. Given the "right" kind of abuse, they'll just do so sooner than some other cars. As I've posted before, the service people's advice to me when I asked (I had an 01 V-6 HL) was use Mobil-1 for no more than 5k. I did that, and had no problems during my possession of that vehicle.
Off the top of my head, I believe the engine improvements hit production during the 02 Model Year, and obviously remained in place until the 3.3L engine replaced the 3.0L in the Highlander. If you have a 3.3L engine (the 3MZ-FE), you are 100% post-sludge. If you have a 3.0L (1MZ-FE engine) then I think you're good to go, but I'm not positive about that. Again, even the "sludge prone" ones are not "spring loaded" to sludge up on you. Given the "right" kind of abuse, they'll just do so sooner than some other cars. As I've posted before, the service people's advice to me when I asked (I had an 01 V-6 HL) was use Mobil-1 for no more than 5k. I did that, and had no problems during my possession of that vehicle.
Here are the guidelines Toyota is using to establish the engines that are prone to having the sludge (gel) condition:
Camry 4 cyl. Produced 8/96 - 7/01
Camry 6 cyl. Produced 8/96 - 8/02
Solara 4 cyl. Produced 6/98 - 5/01
Solara 6 cyl. Produced 6/98 - 8/02
Sienna 6 cyl. Produced 7/97 - 6/02
Avalon 6 cyl. Produced 7/96 - 6/02
Celica 4 cyl. Produced 8/96 - 4/99
Highlander 6 cyl. Produced 11/00 - 8/02
Source
Camry 4 cyl. Produced 8/96 - 7/01
Camry 6 cyl. Produced 8/96 - 8/02
Solara 4 cyl. Produced 6/98 - 5/01
Solara 6 cyl. Produced 6/98 - 8/02
Sienna 6 cyl. Produced 7/97 - 6/02
Avalon 6 cyl. Produced 7/96 - 6/02
Celica 4 cyl. Produced 8/96 - 4/99
Highlander 6 cyl. Produced 11/00 - 8/02
Source
vad and ekpolk,
Thanks for the great info!!!
Actually a friend of mine has an '03 Highlander but she lives 800 miles away from me so I don't have an opportunity to inspect her valve covers
I'll ask her about her truck and offer advice.
Thanks for the great info!!!
Actually a friend of mine has an '03 Highlander but she lives 800 miles away from me so I don't have an opportunity to inspect her valve covers
I'll ask her about her truck and offer advice.
I've seen engines that were so sludged that when you take the intake off, all that you see is the impression of the bottom of the intake. I think that too many people have become use to sparkling innards. These pictures are just a nice little warning. The say "you might want to keep your OCI in line." My bet is that the engine is just fine. Just heed the warning and move on. This isn't anywhere near as bad as it gets. If it keeps running well for another 100K, why should we care if looks a little dirty.
GMorg & Addguy:
You two certainly do make good points. If the chemical cleaning approach fails to do anything, I suppose the only way to clean it up would be a very uneconomical tear down, followed by more aggressive cleaning (chemical, physical, or both). On the other hand, if the engine has many tens of thousands of good service left in it -- why bother? Of course, for some here, we've utterly failed if the metal even shows the first signs of varnish! But hey, what do you expect to find in a place like this???
You two certainly do make good points. If the chemical cleaning approach fails to do anything, I suppose the only way to clean it up would be a very uneconomical tear down, followed by more aggressive cleaning (chemical, physical, or both). On the other hand, if the engine has many tens of thousands of good service left in it -- why bother? Of course, for some here, we've utterly failed if the metal even shows the first signs of varnish! But hey, what do you expect to find in a place like this???
This thread reminds me of all of those guys that think that their wives need to be beauty queens. Well, fact is, they need to age well - especially if the guy doesn't...
If this has been stated, I apologize, but how does this vehicle run? A ten year old engine with 112K miles on it, I'm not too surprised.
Try seafoam or some ARX, I wouldn't worry too much about it especially if it runs well. I'd just go with a dino and 3-4k OCI's (probably closer to 3k, at least for a while).
marc
Try seafoam or some ARX, I wouldn't worry too much about it especially if it runs well. I'd just go with a dino and 3-4k OCI's (probably closer to 3k, at least for a while).
marc
""When I got there," she recalled in a telephone interview last week, "they told me I needed a new engine and that they wouldn't pay for it."
Kendall Toyota quoted the repair at $8,000.
Kendall Toyota quoted the repair at $8,000.
Vad,
Do you know of any examples of engine problems that were the result of this amount of build-up?
Do you know of any examples of engine problems that were the result of this amount of build-up?
Calling them problems is a stretch but a clean engine runs more efficiently and also allows oil to continue to come into contact with all engine seals, keeping them pliable.
Replace PCV valve and use something to clean it up. Auto-Rx,Lube Control,Nutrea 131 etc...... I would use dino oil dureing the cleaning because you will be changeing it often. After you get it clean I would use M1 in what ever viscosity you want to use.
While a HDEO will help to keep an engine clean and might also work great in addition to one of the cleaners I mentioned above it will not do anything by itself! Their is simply no oil that is going to clean that type of mess out by itself. Redline might but it would take a while and it would prematurely use up the oil and would not be cost effective in the long run.
Personely I would pickup a bottle of AUto-Rx and follow the directions. I would also order a bottle of lube control and follow the directions! I do not think either product by itself is going to do a great job on this engine. I would not mix the products that is not what I am saying. I am saying do Auto-RX to the letter then after you are done with it go to Lube Control!
While a HDEO will help to keep an engine clean and might also work great in addition to one of the cleaners I mentioned above it will not do anything by itself! Their is simply no oil that is going to clean that type of mess out by itself. Redline might but it would take a while and it would prematurely use up the oil and would not be cost effective in the long run.
Personely I would pickup a bottle of AUto-Rx and follow the directions. I would also order a bottle of lube control and follow the directions! I do not think either product by itself is going to do a great job on this engine. I would not mix the products that is not what I am saying. I am saying do Auto-RX to the letter then after you are done with it go to Lube Control!
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