PQIA tests five ATFs - one gets Advisory

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Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
My advice look for car maker approval for ANY fluid before you use it. It should say on the bottle that it meets the specific specification recommended by the car manufacturer.

Having a mfg spec approval is certainly beneficial but not required if you know enough about the application.

I don't think there are very many (any?) automatic transmissions that wouldn't be very well served by a typical, high-quality, multi-ATF fluid on the market. The Dex6, MercLV, ATF+4, ToyotaWS, HondaDW-1 (etc) specs are all very-very-similar and will handle most applications with ease. The differences are small and nit-picky from what I can find.

DCTs and CVTs have unique requirements, but the needs of almost all ATs are very similar. Keep the fluid clean, within temp, allow smooth clutch engagement, don't oxidize, and don't shear. A fluid that does this will allow your tranny to live many 100k. The filtration, cooling and flush/change intervals are much more important than the specific fluid.

ie. MaxLife Dex/Merc ATF (and the dozens of similar products) can be thrown in any ATF without worry. I'm very sure it would serve much better than the other four ATFs tested in this PQIA report.
 
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Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I wonder what ever happened to that Valvoline CSR telling a member here on the phone that they were going to get Maxlife ATF certified for Honda DW1 spec. ... It hasn't happened yet. Beware!

It's just marketing at this point and it's not going to change the fluid or how it behaves. Whether is 'has' the spec or not doesn't mean it won't work perfectly in that application. It does just find in every other one.

Do you know of some reason why it might not?
 
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That's a common misconception supported by the lack of valuable data in the provided data-sheets. Dex6 actually has a higher lifetime operating viscosity than Dex3. It's a much better and stronger fluid all around.



Raw Dexron VI has a 6.0 cSt viscosity and raw Dexron III has a viscosity of 7.5 cSt.

Dexron VI, while starting out at 6.0 cSt, has better viscosity retention (low shear) over the life of the fluid, while Dexron III may shear down to 4.5 cSt during the same period. A Dexron VI fluid like Redline D6 may start out at 6.3 and never shear to less than 5.9 cSt.

In addition, the Dexron VI additive package has a more stable friction modification component which means the clutch and pressure plate packs and band material will see a more consistent dynamic friction characteristic for a longer period of time.
 
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Ok I am taking my 03 Bonneville 4T65 to the trans shop tomorrow to have it rebuilt.It was shifting very erratic and had NO CODES.I Think it was the PCS but it was shuddering some as well In reverse and 1st when taking off.Anyway with 186,000 I am having it rebuilt for about the same price as a used trans.What fluid should I use in it when i get it back? DEXIII is spec.
 
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Originally Posted By: Whitewolf
Use a licenced DEXRON-VI fluid.
Originally Posted By: maybehabitformin
maxlife would fall under that correct? I want to use it but honestly I am scared.


I don't think that MaxLife ATF is licenced for Dex-VI, only "Suitable" or "Recomended". OR am I wrong?
 
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Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Originally Posted By: Whitewolf
Use a licenced DEXRON-VI fluid.
Originally Posted By: maybehabitformin
maxlife would fall under that correct? I want to use it but honestly I am scared.


I don't think that MaxLife ATF is licenced for Dex-VI, only "Suitable" or "Recomended". OR am I wrong?


It would appear that you are correct.
 
Originally Posted By: maybehabitformin
maxlife would fall under that correct? I want to use it but honestly I am scared.

For your application I would definitely recommend MaxLife. No need to be scared at all as it's one of the best main-line ATFs as can be seen from feedback and the PQIA tests (as well as many posted here). You could also use one of the numerous (reputable) Dexron VI fluids on the market depending on price/avail in your area. Do NOT use anything that lists Dexron III UNLESS it is also Dexron VI. Dexron III is an old spec and is only used by low-quality products now.

THESE STEPS ARE VERY IMPORTANT FOR LONG TRANNY LIFE
I would highly-recommend changing out the fluid after the break-in period, then once more fairly early on. After that you could use the 'severe service' in your manual as a guide or get the fluid tested at that point. You could use a cheaper fluid for the break-in period but MaxLife is not what I would call expensive.

I would also recommend a magnetic filter spliced into one of the cooling lines, hopefully those doing the rebuild already do this.
 
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The fluid was changed in the trans a couple hundred miles ago there was nothing in the pan then.I will blow out the lines and probably use WM DEX IV it looks. like I already have 2 gallons of maxlife though.I will likely change the fluid early on probably 5,000 miles and then refill and call it good as long as the fluid looks good.
 
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WM DEX IV it


Did you mean DexVI?

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like I already have 2 gallons of maxlife though


ML is probably a better quality fluid than WM DexVI.
 
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Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Valvoline has provided PQIA with a valid technical explanation as to why their MaxLife ATF would perform adequately in transmissions speced for Mercon (see PQIA Website). While it remains true that the product does not meet the Mercon viscosity specification as implied on the front label, based on Valvoline's explanation PQIA has decided that it does not need to advise consumers on this product and has updated its evaluation.

Tom NJ

Was there a threat of a lawsuit from Ashland ???




Absolutely not. The explanation was technically compelling.

Tom NJ

It's interesting that PQIA finds the Vavolene explanation "technically compelling" enough to withdraw the advisory, yet at the same time the explanation of the situation on their site states:

"With the propensity of products on the market, and the harsh reality that there are some suppliers that place products on the market that do not meet implied and/or even stated performance requirements, PQIA’s position is that we cannot condone the reference to a specification when the product does not adhere to all aspects of that specification."

A clear CYA situation and a message to consumers to use at your own risk (IMO). Which, I guess is no different than using a non API certified oil in a warrantied car. I'm not bashing ML whatsoever. But, it is an interesting predicament and bold move for Valvolene. They must really trust their product.
 
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
A clear CYA situation and a message to consumers to use at your own risk (IMO). Which, I guess is no different than using a non API certified oil in a warrantied car.

Exactly. You can exceed all the performance requirements while not meeting the spec. Paying extra for a certified oil doesn't make it better it just means you're paying for the spec.

I'm sure they could make a fluid that meets the ill-advised Mercon spec but that's not the right thing to do. This is why being certified can be a bad thing. Just because it's in the spec, doesn't mean it's valid.

I actually find the whole thing a bit amusing and frustrating at the same time.
 
Yes I meant DEX VI sorry about that was on my phone. WM DEX VI is made by Warren here I am pretty sure.I guess I will use the ML I already have the trans will have a warranty anyway lol.As long as you guys say its ok to use the ML?
 
Originally Posted By: maybehabitformin
As long as you guys say its ok to use the ML?

Absolutely, it's what I would use in that situation myself (unless I was feeling spendy).
 
Ok another question just bought a Grand Prix GT with 165,000 the fluid doesnt look bad but i am going to change it anyway what do i use? And FYI i dont believe that myth about changing a high mileage trans fluid and filter and it causing problems.I have never seen that happen in a trans had no issues.
 
I personally would change it with Maxlife if it were me.

On another note, I cannot see how the fluid being slightly thinner than the original spec Dex III or Mercon would be an issue. PQIA is flagging ML, yet, there is no longer any official licensed Mercon or Dex III fluids, hence the specs are outdated anyway. Kinda like an older model vehicle recommending SAE 90 gear oil for an axle, when now we universally have more modern 75W-90 and 80W-90 gear oils that actually perform better.

I mean, I can see them flagging ATF that is labeled Dex/Merc, yet really is a red type A fluid in it that meets no modern specs...like some of the ATF sold in convenience stores. That would be something to flag and make consumers aware of.
 
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