PQIA tests five ATFs - one gets Advisory

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Originally Posted By: maybehabitformin
Would anyone use it in a trans spec'd for DEXIII? a problematic transmission already such as the 4T65E ?? What about the guy who lost his trans on a 50,000 mile vehicle when he did a filter and filled with the maxlife?? I have never been a fan of the multi purpose fluids and never use it in our shop.While we are on this subject any high performance fluid such as jegs B&M TCI etc says not for use for vehicles after 1999 is it because of thin viscosity does anyone know?


Yes I have and would. Using a fluid to overcome a design or mechanical defect is bad practice.
 
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
I'm sure MaxLife is a very good ATF, but for any car with an Auto trans I will stick to the OEM fluid.



As a former Astro owner that does not matter transmission problem's started occurring a week after it left the dealership's lot and continued until the Astro was no longer in our possession.
 
Originally Posted By: maybehabitformin
Thats just a little too convenient for me!! A transmission would likely run on vegtable oil as well.I am not taking any chances with my vehicles and maxlife.An astro van with a 4L60E or (65E whatever) should not have failed at 70,000 or 100,000 with never a fluid change even.


I can tell you are not going to logically debate your stance on this matter the transmission failed because it was junk. Junk transmissions are built everyday.
 
Originally Posted By: maybehabitformin
There is several trans failures after using maxlife on the net BTW.


Of course there are. Transmissions fail all the time, no matter what fluid is in them. Whether it be Maxlife, Super Tech, Mobil 1, Amsoil, and yes, even OEM fluid. Doesn't mean the fluid is to blame.

What I find interesting is that PQIA's sample contained zinc right out of the bottle, when the letter that Oil Changer got from Ashland clearly stated that Maxlife does not contain zinc.
 
Originally Posted By: maybehabitformin
so how would you feel if your 05 trans with 70,000 took a [censored] after using this all purpose fluid would you still be praising maxlife


User error.

I wouldn't have used a HM fluid, designed for above 75k, on a 70k transmission.

Oil changer talked about how he babied that transmission and what great shape it was in, so why use a HM transmission fluid?

I wouldn't have used a multi purpose fluid.

Oil Changer was 20k overdue for the change on a known weak transmission.

He did 4 drain and fills so could have done something wrong on the 4th.

The transmission is known to be weak and he never got a report on what was actually wrong.
 
Originally Posted By: maybehabitformin
So your astro transmission lost all forward gears also????


No it would not always engage overdrive it was like this for over 12 years. All it ever had was DEXIII fluid so you can not blame fluid for a bad transmission.
 
I agree transmissions fail all the time with any fluid the thing i read on the net was a failure with maxlife on a beloved honda.The next a dodge mini van with a low mileage trans, it went 80 miles after maxlife was installed.Could be a coincidence of course.As far as using the maxlife in oilchangers instance he probably bought it from the praise it gets here.On paper and for the money it did at one time look like the best option.As far as a 4L60E goes I have one in a 4WD no less and it has pulled god knows how many race cars, transported cars hundreds of times and the PO drove it in overdrive pulling heavy loads.It never had the trans serviced and lasted 150,000.I may be wrong and i am not wishing bad on anyone but I think we are going to see more maxlife issues.And Dave you not having overdrive and no forward gears is a huge difference.Its the difference of being able to drive it and not it doesnt even sound like you even fixed the transmission but passed it on to someone else.How many miles where on it anyway? A 4L60E a newer design at that does not fail at 70,000.His was a 05 mine is a 95 the older ones where problematic thats for sure but I never seen one go with less than 100,000.
 
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Originally Posted By: maybehabitformin
4L60E a newer design at that does not fail at 70,000.His was a 05 mine is a 95 the older ones where problematic thats for sure but I never seen one go with less than 100,000.


I've known owners who have had failures sooner than 70K. One was right after a fluid change. A quick search on the internet would yield several 4L6OE failures before 100k and yes, even 2005 units had problems. GM even issued a TSB about the weak sunshell. A fluid change will not prevent it nor will a fluid change cause it. You had one that lasted. Great. More power to you. Tell that to my friend that had one shell on the way back from the lake in his low mileage Tahoe. I am amazed that you can find stories on the internet about tranny failures after a ML change, but no 4L6OE failures?

Let me help you out there:


http://www.automotiveforums.com/t208603-sun_gear_shell_failure_gm_4l60e_automatic_transmission.html

http://chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/214280/

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f31/0...520/index3.html

http://www.twoguysgarage.com/forum/printthread.php?t=6504

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108054

http://www.carcomplaints.com/Chevrolet/T...ure_4L60E.shtml

http://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/topic/131769-2005-chevy-1500-4l60e-failure/

I could go on but what's the point. Here's a list of common failures for that beloved transmission:

http://www.gmtruckhq.com/?q=node/93

As far as ML being the wrong viscosity for the 4L60E,the transmission is still made and GM specs Dex VI for it, about the same viscosity as ML. If the tranny has been maintained by periodic fluid changes, changing with ML or any other quality ATF will not cause a failure. And "low mileage" does not necessarily equate to low wear and tear. Consider this, two identical vehicles that have 80k miles. One sees trips of not less than 50 mile one way commutes on the highway and the other is used exclusively in the city and never sees a speed over 40 MPH. Which one will put more wear and tear on the tranny?
 
Originally Posted By: danthaman1980
The viscosity spec for Dexron VI is lower than the viscosity spec for Dexron III.

That's a common misconception supported by the lack of valuable data in the provided data-sheets. Dex6 actually has a higher lifetime operating viscosity than Dex3. It's a much better and stronger fluid all around.

... I see that Thom has responded to the PQIA about this already. Basically what I was saying, that Dex6, MaxLife and other modern ATFs are actually heavier than the weaksauce Dex3s of old. The old specs no longer apply and have long been superseded.


"When the 6.8 cSt minimum specification was originally established in the 1980s it had to take into account that ATFs were formulated with lower quality base oils and additives than are available today. A 6.8 cSt minimum was
needed to assure the viscosity remained sufficiently high while in use. In service, as simulated by the 20 hr KRL test, these oils shear down to between 4.8 and 5.2 cSt. Typical MERCON oils today continue to use the older technology. Conversely, MaxLife is formulated with synthetic base oils and the highest quality additives available today. Though it starts out at a lower viscosity it only shears down to 5.7 cSt in KRL. The greater viscosity stability, higher after shear viscosity, and superior chemistry of MaxLife means
superior performance in MERCON applications."
 
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Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Big deal, the viscosity at 100c is a little low... doesn't bother me one bit. Look at the additives it has versus the other ATF's! This fluid works and it works very well. No fear from me!

Yeah, for anyone that uses this for Type WS applications, it's probably a non-issue period because WS is a lower visc spec anyways. Been using this in my 07' Camry for the last 30k+ miles and it's been fine. 162K miles on car currently.
 
Originally Posted By: maybehabitformin
Would anyone use it in a trans spec'd for DEXIII? a problematic transmission already such as the 4T65E ?? What about the guy who lost his trans on a 50,000 mile vehicle when he did a filter and filled with the maxlife?? I have never been a fan of the multi purpose fluids and never use it in our shop.While we are on this subject any high performance fluid such as jegs B&M TCI etc says not for use for vehicles after 1999 is it because of thin viscosity does anyone know?


I used MaxLife in my old 4T65 for ~50k miles until I traded the car with great results. Shifting was consistent warm and cold.

MaxLife ATF is doing well in our Honda's 5-speed transmission. It's been in there for 30k miles, and hasn't changed shifting one bit. It's worlds better than the Z-1 that was factory fill.
 
Yeah I know and knew 4L60's have plenty of issues either way.Martinq the explanation does make sense to me now.I am still leary about these multi use fluids to be honest i would use it in a DEXIV app maybe. It does have a nice additive pack I am not denying that.My question earlier was If you look at any of the high performance fluids jegs,B&M,etc they all say for use in Pre-1999 vehicles only my question is why?
 
Originally Posted By: maybehabitformin
I am still leary about these multi use fluids to be honest i would use it in a DEXIV app maybe.

There is no reason to feel that way. The modern fluids are many times better than old formulas in every way. People have fear over things they do not understand. The solution is to learn not to imagine.

Originally Posted By: maybehabitformin
My question earlier was If you look at any of the high performance fluids jegs,B&M,etc they all say for use in Pre-1999 vehicles only my question is why?

They might be using a heavier base and somehow think that's only suitable for older transmissions. That, or the additives they're using are incompatible or don't hold up like those used in modern ATFs.

Post a link to one of these only-works-in-olda-cars fluids and I'll take a peek.
 
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Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: maybehabitformin


maybehabitformin said:
My question earlier was If you look at any of the high performance fluids jegs,B&M,etc they all say for use in Pre-1999 vehicles only my question is why?

They might be using a heavier base and somehow think that's only suitable for older transmissions. That, or the additives they're using are incompatible or don't hold up like those used in modern ATFs.

Post a link to one of these only-works-in-olda-cars fluids and I'll take a peek.


You gotta be REALLY careful about the so-called "high performance" fluids hawked by Summit, JEG's, and speed shops. Some of them are extremely good (Redline, for example, is sold by most of those places). But they also still sell what are basically Type F fluids, because the old-school "speed secret" to firm up shifts in a Mopar or GM tranny was to fill it with type F, which uses fewer friction modifiers.

Type F is an ANCIENT fluid though. Even Ford hasn't used it since the early 70s, Mercon replaced it. And is so similar to Dexron that the two have been able to be cross-spec'd by a single fluid ever since.

But old superstitions die hard, and fluids like B&M 'Trick Shift' were basically just type F way up into the 90s, if not up until now.

I have no idea why they would pick "1999" as the cutoff year. Torque convertor lockup clutches came into being around 1976 or 77, and those are highly unhappy with F-type fluids. Many performance transmission build-ups delete the TC lockup clutch, and in such cases you can get away with an F-type fluid... but here again, WHY?!? Just build the dang transmission for racing shifts with the appropriate clutch and band materials, but use a decent MODERN fluid that won't oxidize quickly. I guarantee you that competent competitive transmission builders can make a Torqueflite or Hydramatic shift as hard as you want, and do it on a modern synthetic fluid without resorting to the old Type F band-aid.
Click to expand...
 
Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: maybehabitformin
I am still leary about these multi use fluids to be honest i would use it in a DEXIV app maybe.



There is no reason to feel that way. The modern fluids are many times better than old formulas in every way. People have fear over things they do not understand. The solution is to learn not to imagine.





What you say MAY be true....until a vehicle owner uses one of them and it doesn't work with a
specific application, while it works OK with other applications.

What a automatic transmission fails due to improper fluid compatibility it is an EXPENSIVE experiment using other than OEM recommended fluids.


My advice look for car maker approval for ANY fluid before you use it. It should say on the bottle that it meets the specific specification recommended by the car manufacturer.
 
I wonder what ever happened to that Valvoline CSR telling a member here on the phone that they were going to get Maxlife ATF certified for Honda DW1 spec. That CSR claimed that Valvoline was going to
"update" their homepage for MaxLife ATF more than a month ago. It hasn't happened yet. Beware!
 
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