PQIA tests five ATFs - one gets Advisory

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: bmwtechguy
On another note, I cannot see how the fluid being slightly thinner than the original spec Dex III or Mercon would be an issue.

That's the thing, it's NOT thinner, it's actually THICKER. If you compare the 20hr shear-test results then the true operating viscosity becomes more clear.

Just like HTHS is a more accurate measure of an engine oils viscosity, the post-shear rating of a hydraulic/gear oil is the one to watch.

 

[RPMster]

Originally Posted By: maybehabitformin
Ok another question just bought a Grand Prix GT with 165,000 the fluid doesnt look bad but i am going to change it anyway what do i use? And FYI i dont believe that myth about changing a high mileage trans fluid and filter and it causing problems.I have never seen that happen in a trans had no issues.


But there ARE a couple issues with the transmission in your Grand Prix. Issue #1: it has 165,000 miles. Issue #2: the service history is unknown. Fluid that's "not bad looking" doesn't mean anything if you've just bought the car.

Go with whatever fluid the car was filled with from the factory (or with a newer spec that the OEM says replaces the original spec), that way if the tranny dies shortly after the drop/fill or flush, we won't have any more ridiculous stories about how "Brand X" killed a perfectly good tranny. Thanks!

 

[Sayjac]

I've found this thread with all it's twists and turns and backtracking to be very interesting. PQIA has been caught between a rock and a hard a place here. While ML doesn't technically meet the old and dated or outdated Mercon viscosity spec, Ashland's explanation was compelling enough regarding the dated Mercon spec that the advisory was removed. Yet PQIA felt it important enough to issue yet another statement saying it was still concerned about a reference to a spec on a label, even an old one, not strictly meeting all aspects of that spec.

To me it's clear that ML exceeds the real world Mercon use spec, but MaxLife ATF clearly presented a strict spec slippery slope dilemma for PQIA. Again, very interesting.

 

[travlnman]

Admittedly did not read this entire thread, but ML also claims to meet Mercon LV specs, which my '10 F150 requires and I use it without issues so far (about 33,00 mi so far). I have no fear of ML, I just think this is slightly outta proportion, just my .02

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: RPMster
Go with whatever fluid the car was filled with from the factory (or with a newer spec that the OEM says replaces the original spec), that way if the tranny dies shortly after the drop/fill or flush, we won't have any more ridiculous stories about how "Brand X" killed a perfectly good tranny.

Good idea. I support this!

 

[chevrofreak]

We just got a fresh pallet of Maxlife ATF in from Valvoline last week and the labeling on the case is different. It now specifically says "full synthetic" "multi-vehicle" and "Mercon LV" very prominently. The dex/merc text is much smaller.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
We just got a fresh pallet of Maxlife ATF in from Valvoline last week and the labeling on the case is different.

Thanks for the heads up. Can you post a shot of the back-label?

 

[chevrofreak]

Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
We just got a fresh pallet of Maxlife ATF in from Valvoline last week and the labeling on the case is different.

Thanks for the heads up. Can you post a shot of the back-label?


If I get a chance on Monday I will try to get a picture. I didn't open any of the cases so I don't know if the bottle labels have also changed.

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
We just got a fresh pallet of Maxlife ATF in from Valvoline last week and the labeling on the case is different.

Thanks for the heads up. Can you post a shot of the back-label?


The product data sheet still says recommended for use in ALL Mercon applications, but the new back label only says Mercon LV.

 

[RF Overlord]

Not to start a different war here, but what's wrong with using the manufacturer-recommended fluid? I'm hearing so much angst from people about using one-size-fits-all fluids...instead of wringing your hands and worrying, just use whatever your car requires. It's what the transmission was designed for and generally doesn't cost THAT much more, even when purchased from a dealer.

Note to the fanboys: I'm not knocking ML, I just don't see why I should use it instead of straight Mercon V. My ex-wife's car has 170,000 miles on various manufacturers of Mercon V...Motorcraft, Castrol, and even Valvoline. I doubt I would have gotten "better" service from ML.

 

[Sayjac]

^^^ In the case of Honda now DW-1, price is a huge factor. Even at AAP's ~$23* a gallon, it's still much less expensive than the Honda stealership mark up. Yeah, one might be able to negotiate the stealer down to suggested retail price if lucky, it's still significantly more expensive. So for Dex/Merc applications like Honda and older Toyota, ML makes sense. Both my Hondas spec'd Z-1, with the change ML was a logical aftermarket choice, and it's been working fine. And, it's a good product so no angst here.

* Before someone posts ML is $15-16 at AZ, it's not available at any AZ stores shipped or otherwise anywhere in this region. Some very selective Walmart stores do carry ML for $17 a gallon though.

 

[antiqueshell]

DO NOT USE MaxLife ATF in any Honda product that is
speced for DW-1 use.

Supposedly Valvoline claimed that they were going to "update" their website to include DW-1 spec...but they never did so.

Also more importantly NOWHERE on the bottle itself does it mention that their ATF is suitable for DW-1 spec applications. If something goes wrong you are SOL.

The only aftermarket product in the US that is widely available to meet DW-1 is Castrol IMV ATF...Personally I would only think about using it in ANY Honda vehicle that specs Z-1 or DW-1 since the product is clearly labeled to meet BOTH the old and new Honda specs.

 

[Sayjac]

As DW-1 is a relatively new product, most of the Hondas that originally spec it would likely still be under warranty, in that case I wouldn't use anything but, no matter the stealer price. But, also true that DW-1 not listed on the current recommended application on the ML bottle or ML website.

I used Z-1 exclusively in an 01 Civic until Honda decided to change to Dw-1, now it's on to ML with no regrets in Honda I maintain spec'd for Z-1.

On the flip side of the coin of using ML in place of the spec, there's something to be said for having and storing(if need be) only one ATF that can be used in multiple applications. Especially if it's a quality product like ML and priced reasonably close to or better than the specific spec. But, that's JMO.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
DO NOT USE MaxLife ATF in any Honda product that is speced for DW-1 use.

No need to spread you fear here. MaxLife is a high-quality product like DW-1, WS, Merc LV/SP, DexVI, etc. If you know of a compatibility issue with Hondas please let us know.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
I'm not knocking ML, I just don't see why I should use it instead of straight Mercon V.

Mercon V is an older, lower-performance spec especially when compared to the newer forumlas and performance fluids like MaxLife (Toyota WS, Merc LV/SP, DexVI, etc). ML is also a pretty good deal and usually cheaper than all the OE offerings.

Here's my lastest 'poster child' for ATFs:

 

[chevrofreak]

Sorry, blurry phone pics

 

[Garak]

As much as I like Valvoline products, I'm not sure I'd be using it as a Matic J/Matic S replacement in my G. Is there any spec they don't claim? Oh yes, Type F isn't on there.

 

[Hokiefyd]

antiqueshell will appreciate that, despite the new labeling, Honda DW-1 is still not an approved application.

 

[Tempest]

They list SP-III but not ATF+4?

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
They list SP-III but not ATF+4?


Valvoline has a specific ATF+4 fluid; also, ATF+4 is a licensed fluid, likely requiring very specific fluid properties that only a specific ATF+4 formulation can achieve. I don't believe that the Hyundai fluids are licensed.