Amsoil Multi-Vehicle ATF? ATF+4? Debate settled?!

BouncinBrandon · Feb 21, 2025

Greetings, I've seen about two threads here talking about whether or not you should use Amsoil's Multi-Vehicle ATF in applications that call for ATF+4. I plan to get a friend a transmission fluid drain and fill this weekend, and want to use Amsoil's Multi-Vehicle ATF as it claims compatibility with ATF+4. So far I've used Amsoil ATF and CVT in applications that call for Toyota WS and various versions of CVTs with no issues, in fact, the results just seem better than the use of OEM fluid, which typically isn't even synthetic compared to Amsoil. The most debate I've seen online seems to revolve around ATF+4 applications, and I guess the question is why? Typically in these threads I'll see people claiming it's just better to be safe than sorry, as the products aren't certified etc, but not certified doesn't necessarily mean inferior, as Amsoil seems to care more about creating quality products vs paying for certifications. Also, the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act should theoretically protect you while using Amsoil if you're still under warranty, is this not correct? When it comes to actual use cases, the only posts I see are how Amsoil's Multi-Vehicle ATF has only improved performance in Chrysler/Dodge applications, while the other side who say to not use it are typically just fear mongering without actually having used the product themselves. I guess I don't understand the hate on a product that just seems to improve performance. While it's all anecdotal, I've only seen positive anecdotal testimonies when it comes to using Amsoil's Multi-Vehicle ATF in applications that call for ATF+4. I'm open to hearing negative anecdotal experience rather than fear mongering from those who haven't actually used the product.

ka9mnx · Feb 21, 2025

Contact Amsoil they will give you the correct answer. I use Mobil1 ATF in everything but the Dodge.

BouncinBrandon · Feb 21, 2025

ka9mnx said:
Contact Amsoil they will give you the correct answer. I use Mobil1 ATF in everything but the Dodge.

Well Amsoil recommends their Multi-Vehicle ATF for ATF+4 applications, and their Fuel-Efficient ATF for Toyota WS applications. This doesn't stop others from debating the ATF+4 compatibility though.

Glenda W. · Feb 21, 2025

Also if you follow Amsoil’s recommendation on which oil to use they have their own warranty.

Pablo · Feb 21, 2025

What car/transmission are we talking about?

Yes Amsoil ATF as recommended by Amsoil works very well in the correct application.

https://www.amsoil.com/p/amsoil-sig...c-automatic-transmission-fluid-atf/?zo=515729

https://www.amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/databulletins/g3110.pdf

BouncinBrandon · Feb 21, 2025

Pablo said:
What car/transmission are we talking about?

Yes Amsoil ATF as recommended by Amsoil works very well in the correct application.

https://www.amsoil.com/p/amsoil-sig...c-automatic-transmission-fluid-atf/?zo=515729

https://www.amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/databulletins/g3110.pdf

Ah the infamous Pablo I've seen in the other threads, nice to see you! The car in question is a 2014 Dodge Journey SE FWD 2.4L with the 41TES transmission. I've purchased about 6 quarts for the transmission fluid change, and since this transmission calls for the ATF+4 specification, I purchased Amsoil's Multi-Vehicle ATF for the job. I also purchased a 3rd party transmission pan with a drain plug, as well as the A-Premium brand gasket and filter. I plan to take the parts to a shop to have installed.

johnmyster · Feb 21, 2025

The specification for ATF+4 is most definitely full synthetic, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from. If you're buying ATF+4, it's full syn...O'Reilly brand, Valvoline, or Mopar bottle from the dealer. All full syn. @MolaKule will correct me if I'm wrong.

Thread 'Which ATF+4 Would You Choose?'

Oct 7, 2019

These are all on the FCA approved list and they are (more or less) the same price from various outlets (I am including tax and shipping as applicable), but price notwithstanding, which would you choose?

Castrol Transmax ATF+4Â®
Mobil ATF+4Â®
Pennzoil Platinum ATF+4Â®
Ravenol ATF+4Â®
Valvoline ATF+4Â®

This is the list of licensed ATF+4 suppliers. Amsoil isn't on it. The spec is tight. You have to meet the spec and pay the royalty to be on the list. As much as Amsoil costs you figure they'd just pay to play. Instead they use it as a marketing ploy to say their product is superior to the spec, which is why they can't claim the spec aside from "we aspire to."

https://www.centerforqa.com/licensed-atf4-brands/

I'm not sure why the temptation to use amsoil when Valvoline (which makes the list) can be had for $25 a gallon, sometimes less. Amsoil claims compatibility/suitability for Dex III, Toyota T-IV, and Allison TES-389. That tells us it's in the right viscosity range for ATF+4, but ATF is more than viscosity alone. Friction modifiers. I would NOT be using a fluid targeted for those specs (moderate FM) as a substitute for a HIGHLY friction modified fluid like ATF+4. I WOULD put it in my ram's power steering or transfer case. I WOULD NOT put it in the transmission. I would use the correct stuff. (My power steering currently has Dex VI and the transfer case has valvoline import multi-vehicle. The transmission has ATF+4.)

Magnusson Moss isn't going to protect you when you use a product that doesn't meet the specification, even if the manufacturer claims it does.

For the anecdotal cases where you found someone to say Amsoil improved their transmission, would a fluid change using the proper fluid have produced the same "seat of the pants" improvement? IE, did the fresh fluid provide the perceived enhancement, or the type of fresh fluid? Which placebo effect did you want to credit?

"Hours" and TAN is the measuring stick for betterness?

burbguy82 · Feb 21, 2025

I would not use anything but ATF+4 in a tranny calling for it. No matter the brand. If Amsoil says it works it works, IMO. They are a brand that has no real retail foothold, and its business is based off of word of mouth. They mess that up, and they are toast.

D60 · Feb 21, 2025

I used the Cam2 in our '12 Ram. It was +4 but IIRC it was semi-syn. Even Cam2 said so at the time. It's been in there a LONG time now, but that was only a spill 'n fill so it's not like the entire transmission is the aftermarket stuff.

BouncinBrandon · Feb 21, 2025

johnmyster said:
The specification for ATF+4 is most definitely full synthetic, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from. If you're buying ATF+4, it's full syn...O'Reilly brand, Valvoline, or Mopar bottle from the dealer. All full syn. @MolaKule will correct me if I'm wrong.

Thread 'Which ATF+4 Would You Choose?'

Oct 7, 2019

These are all on the FCA approved list and they are (more or less) the same price from various outlets (I am including tax and shipping as applicable), but price notwithstanding, which would you choose?

Castrol Transmax ATF+4Â®
Mobil ATF+4Â®
Pennzoil Platinum ATF+4Â®
Ravenol ATF+4Â®
Valvoline ATF+4Â®

CarbonSteel

Replies: 17

Forum: ATF, Differential, Trans, Brakes, P/S

This is the list of licensed ATF+4 suppliers. Amsoil isn't on it. The spec is tight. You have to meet the spec and pay the royalty to be on the list. As much as Amsoil costs you figure they'd just pay to play. Instead they use it as a marketing ploy to say their product is superior to the spec, which is why they can't claim the spec aside from "we aspire to."

https://www.centerforqa.com/licensed-atf4-brands/

I'm not sure why the temptation to use amsoil when Valvoline (which makes the list) can be had for $25 a gallon, sometimes less. Amsoil claims compatibility/suitability for Dex III, Toyota T-IV, and Allison TES-389. That tells us it's in the right viscosity range for ATF+4, but ATF is more than viscosity alone. Friction modifiers. I would NOT be using a fluid targeted for those specs (moderate FM) as a substitute for a HIGHLY friction modified fluid like ATF+4. I WOULD put it in my ram's power steering or transfer case. I WOULD NOT put it in the transmission. I would use the correct stuff. (My power steering currently has Dex VI and the transfer case has valvoline import multi-vehicle. The transmission has ATF+4.)

Magnusson Moss isn't going to protect you when you use a product that doesn't meet the specification, even if the manufacturer claims it does.

For the anecdotal cases where you found someone to say Amsoil improved their transmission, would a fluid change using the proper fluid have produced the same "seat of the pants" improvement? IE, did the fresh fluid provide the perceived enhancement, or the type of fresh fluid? Which placebo effect did you want to credit?

View attachment 264573

"Hours" and TAN is the measuring stick for betterness?

You're quite literally the fear mongerer I didn't want to hear from lol. You're exactly the person I described who hasn't actually tested the product but instead fear mongers based on certs. As far as I'm aware, companies can call a Full Synthetic a Full Synthetic if it's only 25% synthetic, and even that 25% can just be group 3 base oil stock, which is just highly refined conventional oil. Brands such as Amsoil and Redline are the only brands I trust when it comes to being actually synthetic, so when you say the specification for ATF+4 is most definitely full synthetic, I'm not sure what that means when a full synthetic could very well just be highly refined conventional oil. Amsoil on the other hand is in fact 100% synthetic utilizing group 4 and 5 base oil stock. Being labeled full synthetic doesn't necessarily mean it's actually synthetic since companies can legally call highly refined conventional oils Full Synthetic.

slacktide_bitog · Feb 21, 2025

If it's under warranty, use any licensed ATF+4 since they're all the same. Anything on Chrysler's approved list is licensed. Even Walmart's store brand ATF+4 is licensed. So just get the cheapest licensed ATF+4 on sale. They are very strict with licensing requirements, requiring not only a specific base oil but it has to be from specific suppliers, along with a special Lubrizol additive.

When you're out of warranty, use Redline C+ which actually is made for those transmissions unlike other universal ATF products. Redline C+ uses the same additive as licensed ATF+4 but with a better base oil.

Also, if your transmission doesn't have a drain plug, get an aftermarket pan that has one.

johnmyster · Feb 21, 2025

BouncinBrandon said:
You're quite literally the fear mongerer I didn't want to hear from lol. You're exactly the person I described who hasn't actually tested the product but instead fear mongers based on certs.

I haven't tested dish soap in my transmission. It doesn't carry the manufacturer specified cert and it's not the manufacturer specified product. I'm pretty sure we should just use the product the manufacturer had in mind. I'm guessing you weren't around during the mopar transmissions of the 90s and why the correct fluid matters.

What you're looking for is evidence that you can use unlisted products in your transmission in the name of "better," and trying to justify that amsoil universal atf is exactly that...better.

My transmission never gets over 180 F anyway. What exact superiority do you assign to group 4/5 bases that a supposedly present and inferior 2 or 3 could not handle on a responsible drain and fill interval? ATF+4 is actually a really good fluid so I'm not sure what problem you're trying to solve.

Pablo · Feb 21, 2025

johnmyster said:
I haven't tested dish soap in my transmission. It doesn't carry the manufacturer specified cert and it's not the manufacturer specified product. I'm pretty sure we should just use the product the manufacturer had in mind.

What you're looking for is evidence that you can use unlisted products in your transmission in the name of "better," and trying to justify that amsoil universal atf is exactly that...better.

My transmission never gets over 180 F anyway. What exact superiority do you assign to group 4/5 bases that a supposedly present and inferior 2 or 3 could not handle on a responsible drain and fill interval? ATF+4 is actually a really good fluid so I'm not sure what problem you're trying to solve.

Your points are fair, but OTOH you are seeming to say with no proof Amsoil ATF will cause a problem. I'm saying it is better, better additives and better base oils with many hours of testing and 20+ years of use.

oldcodger · Feb 21, 2025

I just can not see the wisdom in using a non oem fluid in a vehicle which is under warranty. After the warranty is over use what you want it is your dollars.

Pablo · Feb 21, 2025

oldcodger said:
I just can not see the wisdom in using a non oem fluid in a vehicle which is under warranty. After the warranty is over use what you want it is your dollars.

It’s a 2014

johnmyster · Feb 21, 2025

Pablo said:
Your points are fair, but OTOH you are seeming to say with no proof Amsoil ATF will cause a problem. I'm saying it is better, better additives and better base oils with many hours of testing and 20+ years of use.

I have not forecast a problem.

I did say this universal fluid claims compatibility with a wide range of ATFs, many of which we would not use as substitute for ATF+4. Fluids that Amsoil seems to reccommend for HAVE caused issues when substituted for ATF+4. (I would not put Dex III or Toyota T-IV in my 68rfe.) I am also saying we have no proof that establishes ATF+4 as problematic in the intended application.

BouncinBrandon · Feb 21, 2025

Pablo said:
It’s a 2014

I just confirmed his vehicle is out of warranty, so personally I don't see the issue with using Amsoil's Multi-Vehicle ATF, perhaps I'll try the Redline C+ after this round of Amsoil, but again, I've yet to see any horror stories of someone using the Amsoil Multi-Vehicle ATF in ATF+4 applications and it destroyed their tranny

johnmyster · Feb 21, 2025

BouncinBrandon said:
Brands such as Amsoil and Redline are the only brands I trust when it comes to being actually synthetic...

Amsoil on the other hand is in fact 100% synthetic utilizing group 4 and 5 base oil stock.

Funny. Amsoil won't talk about it.

I guess we could look at the SDS. Oh, <1% alpha-olefins. Perhaps there's more in "balance."

So we have Amsoil, a company that centers there marketing around telling us how much better the "real" slim shady (4/5) is than the "fake" one (3/3+). But then they won't commit to their "100% syns" being 100% grp 4/5. If their stuff was really 100% grp 4/5, I can guarantee they'd use it as a marketing point and be willing to discuss it. Let's face it. Everything is a blend.

I'm not saying they don't make good stuff. I'm saying you've bought the hype, and want to justify using a product that doesn't meet the spec in your mopar, which we know has caused problems in many a fragile mopar transmission.

Rats. Seems I've ruined any chance of future amsoil sponsorship. It was rude of me to make you doubt the fluid you've already purchased.

BouncinBrandon · Feb 21, 2025

johnmyster said:
Funny. Amsoil won't talk about it.

View attachment 264585

View attachment 264590

I guess we could look at the SDS. Oh, <1% alpha-olefins.

View attachment 264586

So we have Amsoil, a company that centers there marketing around telling us how much better the "real" slim shady (4/5) is than the "fake" one (3/3+). But then they won't commit to their "100% syns" being 100% grp 4/5. If their stuff was really 100% grp 4/5, I can guarantee they'd use it as a marketing point and be willing to discuss it.

I'm not saying they don't make good stuff. I'm saying you've bought the hype, and want to justify using a product that doesn't meet the spec in your mopar, which we know has caused problems in many a fragile mopar transmission.

Rats. Seems I've ruined any chance of future amsoil sponsorship.

So the question from here is where are the horror stories of using the Multi-Vehicle ATF in ATF+4 applications?

johnmyster · Feb 21, 2025

BouncinBrandon said:
So the question from here is where are the horror stories of using the Multi-Vehicle ATF in ATF+4 applications?

Where are the horror stories of using dish soap?

Where is your evidence that Amsoil >> ATF+4 in a 41TES?

Bottom line is you're willing to be your own n=1 test mule, when atf+4 (which we know is unique enough to inhibit cross compatibilty with other fluids) has not caused you a problem. Will the amsoil cause problems? Maybe not. But why go down this path aside from amsoil loyalty feel goods? I know, because you called amsoil and this was the fluid they recommended.

Good news is the 41TES is plentiful in junkyards and trans shops should be familiar with R&R.

Doesn't look like you'll stand by that 100% full synthetic (group 4/5) superiority claim anymore.