Potential class action lawsuit against GM over intake manifold gasket problem.

[brianl703]

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Giving this some thought, aren't we talking about two essentially different, though perhaps related problems? In the 60 degree engines, the gasket is insufficient, and when it fails it allows coolant into the oil. In the 231/3800 engines, a weakness in the composite intake itself can allow coolant to enter the engine's intake air flow.

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That seems correct to me, although perhaps a faulty composite intake manifold could cause problems that appear to be caused by the gasket.

As far as the second problem goes, if coolant entered the intake, it could damage the o2 sensors, the catalyst, and get into the oil anyway.

 

[brianl703]

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GE can manufacture turbines without these society-induced problems, why can't Auto companies?

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Maybe you forgot, or don't even remember, or never even knew about, the GE TV sets in the early-mid 80s that had the soldered "rivet" joints in the circuit board that, due to heat/cool thermal cycling, eventually broke causing an open circuit.

That was back when a 13" color TV set cost a little more than $69.95, too.

My mom owned one and that hunk of crap never worked right for more than a couple of months at a time. It was in and out of the shop multiple times to get the rivets resoldered.

There's your GE "Success Story".

 

[ems1]

What I've experienced with GM cars is a perfect example of why they are losing market share. I had a '98 Venture. It had both the piston slap problem and intake manifold leak. Piston slap repaired under warrantee at 25,000 miles. Intake manifold repaired at 68,000. Out of warrantee but GM paid 90% Van was never right after that repair. Coolant temperature fluctuated wildly and I could not get it corrected. I unloaded that dog for a Saturn Vue with the VTi/CVT. That was another GM engineering disaster. They terminated production after 3 years and left those who owned them with little residual value and a time bomb transmission. How many chances should I give them?

I know people have good luck with GM products but there are 100,000s with horror stories who will avoid them like the plague and they spread the word to millions. Then those that had good GM cars just wonder if they were lucky and have doubts about their next GM purchase. Example: My bad experiences have influenced my 3 daughters, my brother, his family, and my parents, etc. I don't hesitate to comdemn GM products because of how much they have cost me, time, money and grief.

 

[Clement]

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Originally posted by brianl703:

There's your GE "Success Story".

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You just don't get it.

I never said that GE was perfect. I used GE TURBINES as an example of a product designed and manufactured in the US that is apparently immune to the Society problem that is ruining US Automakers.

How can a problem with society have a selective effect on industry?

Maybe the problem is NOT society!

 

[brianl703]

I never said that GM was completely imperfect.

Just as GE can create a product that has no problems, so can GM.

Both companies have built crap, however.

 

[lght1]

Hi

The temp fluctuation was likely air in the cooling system not properly bled out.

As for being lucky with GM, I must have been lucky the last 4 cars and 800,000 miles.

 

[brianl703]

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I know of guys that use them. I don't. IMO it's just a bandaid for a larger problem (i.e. the gasket).

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I used the Bar's Leaks powder (same as the GM seal tabs except not in tablet form). It fixed a small coolant leak from the timing cover gasket on my 1988 Mustang GT for about a year.

Then it became a very big leak, very quickly. It was fine one second, the next the temp gauge was in the red and there was a green puddle under the car when I pulled over.

In retrospect, I should have replaced the timing cover gasket.

 

[dailydriver]

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Originally posted by ekpolk:
For my part, having been a Marine for 26 years (split roughly half-and-half active and reserve), I feel like I've earned the right to choose to drive what I want. My next choice could very well be a domestic. We'll see.

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You know, I used to get really p!$$ed off/upset when I'd seen Marines stickers on Avalons (can't even claim it was built here) and such. I thought, "these guys should know better and feel even more for their country than us lowly civilians". But now I think/feel like you do and quoted above. That being said, I don't think too many of the survivors of the Bataan Death March are/were rushing out to buy Nippon product. Some wounds are just way too deep to heal.

 

[Volvohead]

My LAST GM was a '96 S-10 4WD sport utility, bought brand new, garage kept, and VERY well treated.

Other than the decent seats and strong 4.3, the thing was less than impressive. I could live with the cheap plastic interior parts. But besides the "annual recall" (the last of which involved an ABS malfunction and caused an accident), the paint had runs, the fit and finish was sloppy, the dash and tail gate rattled and squeaked, the tire carrier rusted, I had to drop the steering column to replace burned out instrument panel lamps, the lightly-used CD head unit died, interior lights would spontaneously come on while driving (lovely at night). And at 50K, the RMS on the 4.3 started hemmoraging and it developed a rear axle drone. And it flat out stunk in the snow. At least the electronic transfer case didn't fail like on so many others.

At 52K I dumped it for a '00 Pathfinder. All that ever needed were oil changes and wiper blades. It still looked and ran like a fine watch at trade in.

For a moment recently I considered buying a new V Series Cadillac. But then I thought to myself, "do I really want that 'great GM feeling' again?"

 

[Matt_S]

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Originally posted by bmwtechguy:
Matt, I had that problem with the wife's 1994 3800 Lesabre and stopped that leak with one tube of Alumaseal. Do you have any experience with the "GM coolant tabs" that I heard of dealerships using when they change coolant or flush cooling system on one of these suspect engines? Are these any good?

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I know of guys that use them. I don't. IMO it's just a bandaid for a larger problem (i.e. the gasket). After I had my LIM gasket replaced under warranty (at about 30k miles) I've had no problems. The car has 106k on it now and has gone through a couple of cooling system cleanings and flushings without use of the tabs. I don't use any coolant.

 

[lght1]

Hi

The 660 engines suffer from primarily a gasket issue..

A plastic framed gasket which over time cannot take the heat. The result is that the impregnated silicon is blown out by coolant pressure..thus you have a leak.

The fix is the FelPro Problem Solver gasket used with new bolts and proper torquing sequence.

As for the 3800 SII engines, The problem is either a bad LIM gasket or a UIM failure.

The remedy at 60k, is to do the LIM gasket using the aluminum framed GM gasket ( GM PN 89017816 ) in conjunctionwith a Dorman UIM ( PN 615-180 ).

By reducing the EGR chimney diameter in the pre '99s, you add an air gap around the UIM port. This isnt really needed in the late prod '99s -2003s as they have the reduced EGR chimney already.

Since the Dorman is substantially improved, this is likely the last time this issue wil be heard from.

I used the L26's Aluminum UIM on mine, but I have a Dorman UIM laying around with 100,000 miles on it that still looks pristine in its EGR passageway.

Not rocket science...and you can enjoy this engine for another 150,000 plus miles.