Potential class action lawsuit against GM over intake manifold gasket problem.
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Hey, they're sailing the "unsinkable ship". . . Maybe they should just go ahead and change the name -- TM (Titanic Motors). Impossible -- it could never happen!
The employees, both management and labor, have effectively looted GM. I'm not sure if they just don't care because they think that GM will never be allowed to fold, and if they are, they won't be around to see it. Or if they really believe they deserve what they've taken and the customers should share that view.
Denial. It's not just a river in Egypt...
Honda did big boo boo on the V6 transmission. They have made some incremental changes, as the problem seems multifaceted.....
I gave up on GM in 1988.
I gave up on GM in 1988.
As far as lawsuits are concerned, class action or not, there isn't a lawyer alive who will even answer the phone unless a person is actually injured by a failure. [ekpolk, a little help?]
Honda is still awaiting a real first blood incident regarding their AT. Risk-benefit analysis is a proven strategy for large businesses with liability exposure. The bottom line determines everything. Always.
For those rare cases where companies have been successfully sued for cheating customers out of money, the award for the individual works out to a coupon for a free oil change.
[ April 17, 2006, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: Tosh ]
Honda is still awaiting a real first blood incident regarding their AT. Risk-benefit analysis is a proven strategy for large businesses with liability exposure. The bottom line determines everything. Always.
For those rare cases where companies have been successfully sued for cheating customers out of money, the award for the individual works out to a coupon for a free oil change.
[ April 17, 2006, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: Tosh ]
I gave up on imports in 1969 when I saw those rolling oxidation experiments (TOYota Coronas/TOYopets) rolling down (or broken down) the road.
Through talking with our GM district manager, we were able to get our dealer to fix it for only $200 bucks. We pretty much told them that they KNEW the intake manifold gasket was a KNOWN problem, and there is no reason we should pay $800 to get it fixed when it should have been recalled.
My dad's 3.4L is now sludged up beyond belief (orange sticky goo throughout the engine that will NOT come out) and the lifters sound terrible. I didn't really think it was a good v6 when it was new, but now its just a clunker.
(The sludge is not from owner abuse, I mean come on, I'm a BITOG'er!)
This has definitely changed my view of GM for the worst. I would rather buy a used civic from the late eighties than a brand new *GM CAR* with one of their V6's.
My dad's 3.4L is now sludged up beyond belief (orange sticky goo throughout the engine that will NOT come out) and the lifters sound terrible. I didn't really think it was a good v6 when it was new, but now its just a clunker.
(The sludge is not from owner abuse, I mean come on, I'm a BITOG'er!)
This has definitely changed my view of GM for the worst. I would rather buy a used civic from the late eighties than a brand new *GM CAR* with one of their V6's.
And you closed your eyes in 1970 and haven't opened them again since?
Everyone has their little stories, but our five year-old TOYota Sequoia, which has received only occasional washing and just basic maintenance works and looks far better than the two year-old Expedition down the street. The only true manufacturing defect on this vehicle (which I forgot about the last time I described the Tree) was a problem with the headlight aiming mechanism. They fixed it for free AFTER the wty had expired, no hassles.
In contrast, GM builds cars they KNOW have defective intakes, and counts on them failing post-wty so they can foist the cost on the buyer. And they wonder why people are buying Toyotas.
The blindness required to seriously compare a rusty Corona of the 1960s to the Toyota product of today is part of the fatal disease infecting GM (and the other domestics too).
Tosh:
There are lots of factors that have to line up before a class-action becomes viable. This is a subject that professors write books about, but generally, you're correct. One question, of course, is what do you mean by "injured"? There are certainly cases in which injuries are strictly economic, and others where they are a mixed bag. The positive benefit of the Class Action mechanism is that it allows a way to address "salami slice" injuries. If a thousand people have all been cheated to the tune of $100, it would be virtually impossible for them to all get relief individually. Unfortunately, sometimes, the device is used in cases of arguably questionable importance (the ones in which all the plaintiffs receive is a $10 coupon for their next purchase, and the law firms of course get a large fee...).
Frankly, I have not analyzed the dozens of factors that all bear upon whether or not a class action will "fly" with respect to the intakes. On the surface, it seems to fit the pattern -- many injured parties, small-to-medium individual damages (even those who lost whole engines would barely make it out of small-claims in most states). On the other hand, there are many more things that would need to be examined. The fact that the filing of a CA has not hit the news is suggestive that there MAY be problems.
Hmmmmmmmm -- I'll be re-opening my practice in a couple of months. . .
There are lots of factors that have to line up before a class-action becomes viable. This is a subject that professors write books about, but generally, you're correct. One question, of course, is what do you mean by "injured"? There are certainly cases in which injuries are strictly economic, and others where they are a mixed bag. The positive benefit of the Class Action mechanism is that it allows a way to address "salami slice" injuries. If a thousand people have all been cheated to the tune of $100, it would be virtually impossible for them to all get relief individually. Unfortunately, sometimes, the device is used in cases of arguably questionable importance (the ones in which all the plaintiffs receive is a $10 coupon for their next purchase, and the law firms of course get a large fee...).
Frankly, I have not analyzed the dozens of factors that all bear upon whether or not a class action will "fly" with respect to the intakes. On the surface, it seems to fit the pattern -- many injured parties, small-to-medium individual damages (even those who lost whole engines would barely make it out of small-claims in most states). On the other hand, there are many more things that would need to be examined. The fact that the filing of a CA has not hit the news is suggestive that there MAY be problems.
Hmmmmmmmm -- I'll be re-opening my practice in a couple of months. . .
I dream of the day domestic cars can equal the performance, style, and quality of german and japanese imports. I really do want to buy another GM or Ford product some day.
as for what's going on at GM - anyone who has worked in a big, old, stodgy, bureaucratic, political organization knows exactly how defects get to the customer. fixing the problem would've meant exposing it in the first place - and someone would have to take the blame for the mistake, the ensuing product delays, and the costs to fix it. who's going to do that? risk their pension like that? better to just roll the dice and hope nobody ever figures it out. and make sure you cya. it's not about what's best for the customer or the company. it's about what's best for your own career and retirement.
as for what's going on at GM - anyone who has worked in a big, old, stodgy, bureaucratic, political organization knows exactly how defects get to the customer. fixing the problem would've meant exposing it in the first place - and someone would have to take the blame for the mistake, the ensuing product delays, and the costs to fix it. who's going to do that? risk their pension like that? better to just roll the dice and hope nobody ever figures it out. and make sure you cya. it's not about what's best for the customer or the company. it's about what's best for your own career and retirement.
I have 5 Montanas and 4 have had the intake gaskets replaced. The fifth doesn't have enough miles on it yet, but I know it will happen sooner or later.
The first one kinda made me mad because I bought the van new and was still making payments when the gaskets started leaking(past warranty of course). Now I buy used vans. 3 years old, just off lease for 1/3 the price of new. The intake problem suddenly becomes a bargaining chip in your favor when buying used. If I pay a low enough price for the van, a $800 repair becomes a non-issue. I'm seriously considering replacing the intake gaskets before putting the vehicle into service. I know they are going to fail so why not repair it before ANY coolant gets into the crankcase?
The first one kinda made me mad because I bought the van new and was still making payments when the gaskets started leaking(past warranty of course). Now I buy used vans. 3 years old, just off lease for 1/3 the price of new. The intake problem suddenly becomes a bargaining chip in your favor when buying used. If I pay a low enough price for the van, a $800 repair becomes a non-issue. I'm seriously considering replacing the intake gaskets before putting the vehicle into service. I know they are going to fail so why not repair it before ANY coolant gets into the crankcase?
Vasili wrote:
"The first car is a 1994 Buick LeSable,"
Mmmm, that would be 1994 Buick LeSabre. Have you no shame?
[ April 18, 2006, 05:59 AM: Message edited by: GoldenRod ]
"The first car is a 1994 Buick LeSable,"
Mmmm, that would be 1994 Buick LeSabre. Have you no shame?
[ April 18, 2006, 05:59 AM: Message edited by: GoldenRod ]
Yes, I've pondered that myself for some years now. If Jeffrey Skilling and Kenneth Lay walk, it may be more than a conjecture.
Kestas
Staff member
It was once reported that the sum total of salaries of the Chrysler Group Board members was 10% of all salaries given to Chrysler employees. This was discovered as the Board was trying to figure out how to cut 10% in workforce salaries. All they had to do was look in the mirror!
Kestas:
I hope you're not holding your breath. . .
I hope you're not holding your breath. . .
Hi
I'll likely get a Buick.
From those in the office that have Camrys (3), none of them look too sweet after 100k mi of pounding on these local roads.
For some reason, they just dont seem suited for these conditions. The white '01 has rust on the undersides of the front doors, while the cloth interior seems to have worn badly.
From what I have seen just from these cars, they just dont seem to look as good as my "H" car, several Impala's and the Bonneville.
BTW, all 3800's.
And yes, the 3800 is a 90 degree, but so what? The 60 degree 31 and 3400 v6s have a poor gasket design which may now be cured by improved haskets with aluminum frames, new bolts and torquing proceedures.
The 60 degree 04 3500 V6 seems to be holding up in the Malibu/G6 line.
The 3800 Series I gave way to the 3800 series II around 1995.
I'll likely get a Buick.
From those in the office that have Camrys (3), none of them look too sweet after 100k mi of pounding on these local roads.
For some reason, they just dont seem suited for these conditions. The white '01 has rust on the undersides of the front doors, while the cloth interior seems to have worn badly.
From what I have seen just from these cars, they just dont seem to look as good as my "H" car, several Impala's and the Bonneville.
BTW, all 3800's.
And yes, the 3800 is a 90 degree, but so what? The 60 degree 31 and 3400 v6s have a poor gasket design which may now be cured by improved haskets with aluminum frames, new bolts and torquing proceedures.
The 60 degree 04 3500 V6 seems to be holding up in the Malibu/G6 line.
The 3800 Series I gave way to the 3800 series II around 1995.
So which ones have the intake gasket problems?
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