Please help me find a good oil for my application

[bhvrdr]

Mercedes-Benz 229.52 approval has a stringent LSPI test. API SP license is not needed.

I believe VW 504 00 does as well.

Vw504 does not that I've been made aware as it was released in 2004. Same with vw508 that was released over 10 years later. Add to that the old 229.52 (same exact number) also does not. M1 has messed up in the past advertising meeting the 229.52 on oils that are not lspi mitigating. It's bizarre to say the least.

Really it's moot as you can buy 5w30 and 0w30 m1 oils that meet SP and be assured you are getting this benefit.

 

[kschachn]

Vw504 does not that I've been made aware as it was released in 2004. Same with vw508 that was released over 10 years later. Add to that the old 229.52 (same exact number) also does not. M1 has messed up in the past advertising meeting the 229.52 on oils that are not lspi mitigating. It's bizarre to say the least.

Really it's moot as you can buy 5w30 and 0w30 m1 oils that meet SP and be assured you are getting this benefit.

Mercedes-Benz 229.52 most certainly does have an LSPI test.

Understanding the Daimler MB 229.52 Specification

OEMs often go way beyond the ACEA baseline when publishing their own service-fill engine lubricant specifications. Here we discuss the Daimler MB 229.52 lower SAPS service-fill specification for high performance engines.

360.lubrizol.com

508 00 also has an LSPI test per Infineum P6088 package, but you may be correct about VW 504 00 as it uses the Infineum P6080A derivative. But that is not clear.

 

[bhvrdr]

Mercedes-Benz 229.52 most certainly does have an LSPI test.

Understanding the Daimler MB 229.52 Specification

OEMs often go way beyond the ACEA baseline when publishing their own service-fill engine lubricant specifications. Here we discuss the Daimler MB 229.52 lower SAPS service-fill specification for high performance engines.

360.lubrizol.com

508 00 also has an LSPI test but you may be correct about VW 504 00 as it uses the Infineum P6080A derivative. But that is not clear.

Again as I said mb 229.52 did not always have an lspi test. It did not and more than one oil company left the cert on their bottle after it changed.

See your own link...

"The MB 229.52 specification has evolved since its launch, with the Daimler LSPI test being added to the engine test requirements"

I've tested vw508 oils and have both here on my shelf and they are not lspi mitigating. Where do you see an lspi test for vw508?

 

[kschachn]

Again as I said mb 229.52 did not always have an lspi test. It did not and more than one oil company left the cert on their bottle after it changed.

See your own link...

"The MB 229.52 specification has evolved since its launch, with the Daimler LSPI test being added to the engine test requirements"

I've tested vw508 oils and have both here on my shelf and they are not lspi mitigating. Where do you see an lspi test for vw508?

View attachment 174329

Okay but it does now and therefore my statement about the ESP oil is correct.

 

[bhvrdr]

Okay but it does now and therefore my statement about the ESP oil is correct.

And then you can please re-read my statement which already states 229.52 has changed over the years and more than one company has left 229.52 on the bottle for non lspi mitigating oils.

And again I stated this is moot as you can already choose from oils that m1 and shell don't claim are not lspi mitigating (m1 claims esp is not lspi mitigating and shell claims their euro is not). But there are readily available ones that are without question lspi mitigating like pp 5w30, m1 0w30 afe etc

 

[kschachn]

I've tested vw508 oils and have both here on my shelf and they are not lspi mitigating. Where do you see an lspi test for vw508?

You've tested the oil for LSPI mitigation? How on earth does an individual do such a thing?

Because it's part of the Infineum P6088 additive package, there was a thread on it a while back:

Infineum and VW 508.00 (press release) August 2019

1. This is a global spec, not one dedicated to the US because of CAFE. 2. It does mention LSPI protection for those inquiring in the past. https://www.infineum.com/en/news/in...volkswagen-0w-20-fuel-economy-lubricant/ Quote Infineum delivers 2nd generation of Volkswagen 0W-20 fuel economy...

bobistheoilguy.com

Plus on the Infineum microsite.

 

[kschachn]

And then you can please re-read my statement which already states 229.52 has changed over the years and more than one company has left 229.52 on the bottle for non lspi mitigating oils.

And again I stated this is moot as you can already choose from oils that m1 and shell don't claim are not lspi mitigating (m1 claims esp is not lspi mitigating and shell claims their euro is not). But there are readily available ones that are without question lspi mitigating like pp 5w30, m1 0w30 afe etc

Sure.

 

[bhvrdr]

You've tested the oil for LSPI mitigation? How on earth does an individual do such a thing?

Because it's part of the Infineum P6088 additive package, there was a thread on it a while back:

Infineum and VW 508.00 (press release) August 2019

1. This is a global spec, not one dedicated to the US because of CAFE. 2. It does mention LSPI protection for those inquiring in the past. https://www.infineum.com/en/news/in...volkswagen-0w-20-fuel-economy-lubricant/ Quote Infineum delivers 2nd generation of Volkswagen 0W-20 fuel economy...

bobistheoilguy.com

Plus on the Infineum microsite.

First you never answered my question about where you learned vw508 was lspi mitigating. Can you please link me to where this is the case. Thank you


One again your own link refutes this....

"This includes going above and beyond the requirements of the specification [vw508] and adding additional features, notably, LSPI protection."

 

[kschachn]

First you never answered my question about where you learned vw508 was lspi mitigating. Can you please link me to where this is the case. Thank you


One again your own link refutes this....

"This includes going above and beyond the requirements of the specification [vw508] and adding additional features, notably, LSPI protection."

You need to learn a bit about additive packages and how LSPI is mitigated, and where blenders get their additive packages. I completely answered your question in my response.

I am a bit intrigued by this LSPI test you performed. How are you doing this again?

 

[bhvrdr]

You need to learn a bit about additive packages and how LSPI is mitigated, and where blenders get their additive packages. I completely answered your question in my response.

I am a bit intrigued by this LSPI test you performed. How are you doing this again?

Thank you for your opinion. Again can you link me to where it states vw508 has an lspi test in it. You linked me to where it says it doesn't.

 

[kschachn]

Thank you for your opinion. Again can you link me to where it states vw508 has an lspi test in it. You linked me to where it says it doesn't.

The VW 508 00 approved oil uses the Infineum P6088 additive package. So by default it has an LSPI test. But all right I see the issue here where you are asking if the approval itself has a test. That I do not know since as far as I know the requirements of the approval have not been published. But as you say, it's moot since we do know what additive package is being used. But I apologize for not understanding the exact question.

So what about that LSPI test you're doing? I really am interested in that.

 

[1stFoST]

And then you can please re-read my statement which already states 229.52 has changed over the years and more than one company has left 229.52 on the bottle for non lspi mitigating oils.

And again I stated this is moot as you can already choose from oils that m1 and shell don't claim are not lspi mitigating (m1 claims esp is not lspi mitigating and shell claims their euro is not). But there are readily available ones that are without question lspi mitigating like pp 5w30, m1 0w30 afe etc

On the Mobil 1 site they do actually advertise that the esp is LSPI mitigating. The new esp formula is also API SP rated. So you can rest assured that the mobil 1 esp is fine for use in LSPI prone cars.

 

[bhvrdr]

The VW 508 00 approved oil uses the Infineum P6088 additive package. So by default it has an LSPI test. But all right I see the issue here where you are asking if the approval itself has a test. That I do not know since as far as I know the requirements of the approval have not been published. But as you say, it's moot since we do know what additive package is being used.

So what about that LSPI test you're doing? I really am interested in that.

That's not what it says.

The p6066 package you linked includes tests NOT in the vw508 certification, they even name the lspi test as one of them not in the certification...


Volkswagen updated the VW 508 00 / 509 00 specifications in 2018 for wider global application, including China. ....Infineum P6088 has been developed for wider geographic coverage, meeting demanding fuel economy requirements while improving engine protection. This includes going above and beyond the requirements of the specification and adding additional features, notably, LSPI protection.

 

[bhvrdr]

On the Mobil 1 site they do actually advertise that the esp is LSPI mitigating. The new esp formula is also API SP rated. So you can rest assured that the mobil 1 esp is fine for use in LSPI prone cars.

Yes I mentioned this above.

Please see my post that shows what is a actually on shelves though. It is not the esp advertised as it relates to 0w30 as I stated and showed a picture of...

I warn about it because what m1 puts on shelves and what their website reflects are not always the same.


What is on shelves ...

 

[kschachn]

That's not what it says.

The p6066 package you linked includes tests NOT in the vw508 certification, they even name the lspi test as one of them not in the certification...


Volkswagen updated the VW 508 00 / 509 00 specifications in 2018 for wider global application, including China. ....Infineum P6088 has been developed for wider geographic coverage, meeting demanding fuel economy requirements while improving engine protection. This includes going above and beyond the requirements of the specification and adding additional features, notably, LSPI protection.

Yes the additive package requirement has a test.

And again how are you testing oil for LSPI mitigation yourself? I’m really interested in this. An answer would be great to hear.

 

[bhvrdr]

Yes the additive package requirement has a test.

And again how are you testing oil for LSPI mitigation yourself? I’m really interested in this. An answer would be great to hear.

I'm still waiting for you to link where vw508 has a lspi test requirement. Again the link you gave shows it did not. Can you link me to where it states vw508 does please?

 

[kschachn]

I'm still waiting for you to link where vw508 has a lspi test requirement. Again the link you gave shows it did not. Can you link me to where it states vw508 does please?

So just how did you test oils for LSPI mitigation?

 

[bhvrdr]

So just how did you test oils for LSPI mitigation?

You're not going to answer the question I had first for you are you?

Vw508 doesn't test for LSPI like you said it did right?

And mb 229.52 didn't always either right?

 

[kschachn]

You're not going to answer the question I had first for you are you?

Vw508 doesn't test for LSPI like you said it did right?

And mb 229.52 didn't always either right?

I already admitted I did not understand that you were asking specifically about the approval. My answer is based on the additive package that is used. You’re going on about something that isn’t a functional difference.

And at this point I think your statement that you tested for LSPI is a falsehood unless you worked for an additive provider. That is a sophisticated test and more so the analysis.

If you’re an industry insider just say so.

 

[bhvrdr]

I already admitted I did not understand that you were asking specifically about the approval. My answer is based on the additive package that is used. You’re going on about something that isn’t a functional difference.

And at this point I think your statement that you tested for LSPI is a falsehood unless you worked for an additive provider.

Moving in to the m1 0w20 espx2 and Castrol 0w20 lliv that you are now asking about.

Please read what I stated again.

"I've tested vw508 oils and have both here on my shelf and they are not lspi mitigating."


I do analysis on every oil I use. You appear to know quite a bit about additive packages since you stated to me that I need to read up on them .


But this will make it easier. Castrol 0w20lliv has over 1900 calcium and almost zero magnesium. This is the same for m1 esp X3, the Ravenol and the Motul vw508 oils.

Now if you can answer this question correctly we will know you know quite a bit about additive packages and lspi as well. You get bonus points if you don't mention zinc .

Do you know of any lspi mitigating oil that has zero magnesium and over 1800 calcium?

I am in the motorsports industry. I work with oil industry engineers regularly.