Pics 89,000 Mile LS1 Cylinder Bores

[Last_Z]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:
GM makes some very durable engines, the LS1 for example. However, everything else is usually plastic shiite. My wimpy economy Corolla S is built like a little tank.

Here is an example of repairs on my car vs. my wife's 2002 Focus.

Corolla- NONE @ 158,000 miles. All routine maint.

Focus- Rattles, windsheild wipers broke, door locks broke and the transmission has something wrong with it. 22,000 miles.

Toyota/Honda still have it all over the domestics in terms of refinement and durability. There really isnt a question about it. Don't confuse Toyota and Honda with the other Jap brands either, those are a different species.

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Well, my LS1 had all 8 pistons replaced for the slapping and/or ticking sound. After only a few thousand miles, the noise is slowly but surely coming back. The rotors warp all the time and there are a few things that could be "tighter" and/or better quality. The idle is NOT that smooth as it was mentioned above. In fact, my old '88 GTA TPI was smoother. My LS1 has a bit of a choppy idle....I assume it's the somewhat big cam.
I love its power and torque, it consumes no oil and gas mileage is great.

My wife's Corolla isn't the best car we've had either. The A/C is a bit temperamental.....it works on its own schedule, the A/C fan rattles (I think it's coming in contact with something) and the engine isn't very smooth either. Power is.....well, ok. Don't try to pass anyone on a 2 lane road! The suspension is very very rough.....hard, yet mushy. Someone commented it was due to the springs being too hard and the shocks being too soft. Overall, I like it, but it leaves a few things to be desired.

I should metion that both vehicles showed very good UOAs (including pre-overhaul in the Z28)

 

[JohnBrowning]

All I am saying is that what you take as critism is really disapointment. I know that we can do better. It is just like if your son brings home a C+ and you know he could have gotton an A+ if he had only applied him self. If you let him settle for a C+ what does he have to work for. Why should he ever push himself if you are not going to make it important for him to challenge him self and rise to the challenge!

I chose to hold my fellow country men and the worlds largest automotive super power to the highest standards not the lowest common denomanator. GM has the purchaseing power to offer the best product at the lowest price due to their economy of scale. They do not have to throw inferior products out the door and discount them to make the sale. I doubt that makeing weather seals that work, pistons that do not slap and interiors that do not sqeak right off the line would signifacantly add to the cost of the product.

I reliase that F Bodys were cheap there for a while! So maybe low expectations were the norm. Corvettes have never been cheap yet they suffer the same fate! I do not think that the areas that are hurting GM have much to do with price segment that the car falls into.

My Geo Metro 3 cylinder never had piston slap and I only paid $3000 for it used. I drove foot to the floor board every day. It also did not rattle unless I hit a really hard bump then the rear fold down seat latch would make a little noise but that was it.

Personely I think that putting out a product that slaps and burns a ton of oil should be an embaramant and reason enough to do mild redsign to fix it. I do not see any 8 year warrantys for piston slap or offers for a complete rebuild. They do offer to replace your pistons though. The piston slap and excessive oil consuption affects the the following engines: 3.1,3.4,4.8,5.3,6.1,N.Star4.0-4.6 engines,LS1 and LS6> I do not know the sizes of the Saturn engines that have these issues as well. That is almost the intire line up for GM!!

We have some people on this site that have even gone so far as to have all eight pistons and rings replaced under warranty. It appears that this solves the slap issue for a short time but then returns!

Again I chose to hold the worlds largest AUtomotive company to the Worlds highest standards!! As an AMerican I feel we should set the standard for engineering prowes not marketing prowes!

Last Z I will not argue anything you said about the Carolla! The question though becomes how many Carollas can you buy for the origanal retail price of an F Body? The difference is that a Carolla is supposed to be basic transportation on a beer buget. The F body is supposed to be a sports car. I am sure you have not had to replace any pistons in the Carolla and the rotors are probably the OEM rotors that came with the car. What has the total cost of ownership been for the two vechiles. Make sure you include the oppertunity cost that comes with a vechile down situation.

P.S. If I could afford to re-machine an LS1 and refitt all the oem pieces I would probably own a GTO. It would also help if I could fit three car seats in back!! THe wife does not care what I buy so long as all three kids can ride along in case of an emergency!!

[ May 15, 2004, 06:19 PM: Message edited by: JohnBrowning ]

 

[Last_Z]

JB,
I don't think you digested all the info I posted. Even before the overhaul, the UOA for my Z28 was, IMHO, excellent!

Here is a comparo of my wife's Corolla at 6k miles and my Z at 4k miles:

code:

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Z28 Corolla

ALUMINUM--------3-------3

CHROMIUM--------1-------1

IRON-----------12-------8

COPPER--------130-------2

LEAD------------4-------0

TIN-------------2-------1

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Yes there is a 2k mile difference between these runs, but the Z28 is more than twice as big as the 1.8L Corolla. AL is very low, suggesting the piston scuffing is not happenening and the piston slap isn't affecting anything.

As I said, both vehicles have plenty they can improve on.


BTW, the Corolla wasn't exactly cheap.....I think I paid almost $15k for it, and it doesn't have power windows/locks etc.
My Z was $26.5 and has power everything and hauls arse as well.
Different cars for different uses...so we are comparing bananas to watermelons!


EDIT: One last thing....the Corolla has never been to the dealer....but that's because my wife always has it and I never get a chance to fix stuff on it. As of right now, it needs a tire balance, the A/C needs to be looked at, as well as the A/C fan. I haven't paid much if any for repairs on the Z28.

[ May 15, 2004, 06:51 PM: Message edited by: Last_Z ]

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
As an American I feel we should set the standard for engineering prowes not marketing prowes!

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Couldn't agree more JohnBrowning. Heck, I'd feel a lot better if they were just on an equal footing.

By the way, nice diatribe. Kinda' had a nice patriotic flair to it too. I could feel myself sitting straighter at my desk, preparing for the "Tench Hut"

[ May 15, 2004, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: 427Z06 ]

 

[MB289]

Hi JB, as I said before, I disagree with some of your thoughts. However, I do agree with you that GM, and all American car co., can do better. But I think you miss the point on the F-bodies. Their made for low buck performance. Some corners are cut so the average person can afford to buy. I've owned a 68, 81, 89 and now a 99 F-body, so I new what I was getting and I'm happy. Truth be known I bought the 99 only because GM stopped making them and they are fun to drive.