Pennzoil Claims Formulation of Platinum Changed to Reflect New 15,000-mile Guarantee On Bottle

[Bill7]

Pennzoil website

Thanks for that info. I checked Pennzoil website, and you are correct.

https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/prod...C9wYXIvaWZyYW1lZGFwcC5zdGF0aWMvaW5kZXguaHRtbA

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Would anyone know if Pennzoil has plans to also update their Platinum High Mileage Full Synthetic to 15,000 mile OCI.

15k more? That's like asking these High Mileage Oils to add another 20% mileage from engine birth. If high mileage oils should originally be used @ (75k), then why not just stick some junkyards brochures to the high milege oil brand jug label. That way when the additional 15k is driven, then just drive the vehicle to the junkyard business located on the brochure.

Lets be reasonable here. High mileage oils are for vehicles near death. Owners should be making plans for their next future vehicle's arrival. Then save some money by planning a double party, celebrating one's garage death and the new incoming birth.

 

[Bill7]

15k more? That's like asking these High Mileage Oils to add another 20% mileage from engine birth. If high mileage oils should originally be used @ (75k), then why not just stick some junkyards brochures to the high milege oil brand jug label. That way when the additional 15k is driven, then just drive the vehicle to the junkyard business located on the brochure.

Lets be reasonable here. High mileage oils are for vehicles near death. Owners should be making plans for their next future vehicle's arrival. Then save some money by planning a double party, celebrating one's garage death and the new incoming birth.

I only use high mileage full synthetic oils. They treat the oil seals and have
higher amounts of phosphorous and zinc anti-wear additives, and calcium (detergent).

 

[Bill7]

15k more? That's like asking these High Mileage Oils to add another 20% mileage from engine birth. If high mileage oils should originally be used @ (75k), then why not just stick some junkyards brochures to the high milege oil brand jug label. That way when the additional 15k is driven, then just drive the vehicle to the junkyard business located on the brochure.

Lets be reasonable here. High mileage oils are for vehicles near death. Owners should be making plans for their next future vehicle's arrival. Then save some money by planning a double party, celebrating one's garage death and the new incoming birth.

With the cost of brand new minivan's costing $60,000+, I prefer to buy used ones in good condition with 90k to110k miles on them for about $5,000 from original owners who did frequent maintenance and did the timing belt recently, and then to drive them 20k miles a year (due to the long commutes myself and 3 other family members have) until they get to 250,000+ miles.

I find this more economical then the cost it would be to buy 4 new vehicles at today's prices.

These vehicles are good candidates for a high mileage oil, which treat the oil seals to help prevent oil leaks on my driveway.
Currently non of my 4 Honda Odysseys have any oil leaks as a result.
The high mileage oil also has extra phosphorous/zinc anti-wear additives, and also extra calcium (detergent).

I prefer Honda Odysseys as they have one of the lowest death's per million vehicle miles according to the Insurance Institute for highway safety in real world accidents which gets the statistics from law enforcement whenever there is a crash with fatalities.

 

[john_pifer]

With the cost of brand new minivan's costing $60,000+, I prefer to buy used ones in good condition with 90k to110k miles on them for about $5,000 from original owners who did frequent maintenance and did the timing belt recently, and then to drive them 20k miles a year (due to the long commutes myself and 3 other family members have) until they get to 250,000+ miles.

I find this more economical then the cost it would be to buy 4 new vehicles at today's prices.

These vehicles are good candidates for a high mileage oil, which treat the oil seals to help prevent oil leaks on my driveway.
Currently non of my 4 Honda Odysseys have any oil leaks as a result.
The high mileage oil also has extra phosphorous/zinc anti-wear additives, and also extra calcium (detergent).

I prefer Honda Odysseys as they have one of the lowest death's per million vehicle miles according to the Insurance Institute for highway safety in real world accidents which gets the statistics from law enforcement whenever there is a crash with fatalities.

Your price figures are a tinch off.

 

[pbm]

Your price figures are a tinch off.

I agree....people aren’t selling 90 to 110k mile well maintained minivans for $5000 anymore.

To add, metallurgy is pretty important for parts that are in boundry lubrication (ie, cams and followers, rings, etc), and plays a large role in wear control. We've seen instances were no matter how good the oil's AF/AW package, if the metallurgy is wrong/bad, wear will still occur. A better oil may slow it down some, but you can't fix bad metallurgy or design defects with oil.

”You talking to me”....says the Hyundai/Kia engineer.

 

[Malo83]

Who does 15/20 K oil changes, Not Me, 5K is my limit, those that do probably leave their filter on for 2 cycles.

 

[Patman]

Who does 15/20 K oil changes, Not Me, 5K is my limit, those that do probably leave their filter on for 2 cycles.

We have a few members here who do 15-20k changes but they are definitely in the extreme minority. Same way with the non BITOG do it yourselfers. But a lot of people still like the idea of using an oil that’s rated for long intervals even if they don’t plan on going that long. I just did that myself, on my previous OCI I went with the 20,000 mile formula of Supertech even knowing that I was going to do a 9-10k run. It’s likely that the oils rated for longer life will keep the engine cleaner.

 

[Bill7]

I think if we take his point tangentially, just saying "30 will protect better" glosses over a lot of nuance. Sure, if both oils are formulated the same that's likely true, but the additive package is the primary means of protection in boundary/mixed regimens, so if the grade bump isn't enough to move these areas out of those modes and into hydrodynamic, then it's certainly possible for a xW-20 with a more robust additive package to provide superior wear control to a Joe Blow average 5W-30.

Good post. You mentioned "the additive package is the primary means of protection in boundary/mixed regimens".

So the theory some people have mentioned is that Pennzoil Platinum High Mileage Full Synthetic 5W-30's very low phosphorous and zinc anti-wear additive levels (about 600 ppm) which is barely meeting the API SP spec, is fine because the GTL based oil doesn't need a higher level due to it's natural lubricity. But that is only a theory.

Another theory is that perhaps Sophus has management that is very environmentally sensitive and believes lower phosphorous will degrade catalytic converters less and be better for the earth (even though the lower phosphorous and zinc values could cause more engine wear).

To make this even harder to confirm is the vauge answers that their customer service provides.

Do either of those 2 theories above make sense, or could there be some other reason why the additive package is so anemic?

 

[oil pan 4]

Odd comment about HTHS. What next - cSt, pour point? And isn’t the supplier, well, Shell?

VOA of PP 30 weights is usually around 10.5cSt.
The pour point of 5w and 10w-30 weight PP is almost identical both nearly -30f.
I'm thinking they put the same stuff in the 10w-30 and 5w-30 bottles.

 

[OVERKILL]

Good post. You mentioned "the additive package is the primary means of protection in boundary/mixed regimens".

So the theory some people have mentioned is that Pennzoil Platinum High Mileage Full Synthetic 5W-30's very low phosphorous and zinc anti-wear additive levels (about 600 ppm) which is barely meeting the API SP spec, is fine because the GTL based oil doesn't need a higher level due to it's natural lubricity. But that is only a theory.

Another theory is that perhaps Sophus has management that is very environmentally sensitive and believes lower phosphorous will degrade catalytic converters less and be better for the earth (even though the lower phosphorous and zinc values could cause more engine wear).

To make this even harder to confirm is the vauge answers that their customer service provides.

Do either of those 2 theories above make sense, or could there be some other reason why the additive package is so anemic?

I assume they are using additional additives that either compliment the existing phosphorous, making it more effective, or are additive in terms of AW prevention, augmenting it and we simply aren't seeing this in your run-of-the-mill VOA.

 

[Bill7]

I assume they are using additional additives that either compliment the existing phosphorous, making it more effective, or are additive in terms of AW prevention, augmenting it and we simply aren't seeing this in your run-of-the-mill VOA.

I hope that is the case. I just wish it had higher anti-wear and detergent additive levels, and I wish it had the Dexos 1 Gen 3 approval.
Another concern is its 15k mile OCI warranty is very limited and restrictive. Wondering if they actually improved the oil or it's additive package for the 15k mile advertised OCI.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I hope that is the case. I just wish it had higher anti-wear and detergent additive levels, and I wish it had the Dexos 1 Gen 3 approval.
Another concern is its 15k mile OCI warranty is very limited and restrictive. Wondering if they actually improved the oil or it's additive package for the 15k mile advertised OCI.

A $30 UOA won't tell you the version of an additive. IOW sometimes less is more.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Good post. You mentioned "the additive package is the primary means of protection in boundary/mixed regimens".

So the theory some people have mentioned is that Pennzoil Platinum High Mileage Full Synthetic 5W-30's very low phosphorous and zinc anti-wear additive levels (about 600 ppm) which is barely meeting the API SP spec, is fine because the GTL based oil doesn't need a higher level due to it's natural lubricity. But that is only a theory.

I don't think any base oil with zero additives in it is going to out do another in terms of AW/AF in mixed and boundry lubrication except what you'd get from the viscosity MOFT difference factor effect on friction and wear.

 

[Bill7]

I don't think any base oil with zero additives in it is going to out do another in terms of AW/AF in mixed and boundry lubrication except what you'd get from the viscosity MOFT difference factor effect on friction and wear.

So what you are saying is:

Given two 5W-30 oils, one GTL and one regular group III, both with no additives at all, the engine wear would be identical,

and if additive packages were added to each oil above, the oil with the more anti-wear additives would have the lower engine wear, right?

 

[ZeeOSix]

So what you are saying is:

Given two 5W-30 oils, one GTL and one regular group III, both with no additives at all, the engine wear would be identical,

and if additive packages were added to each oil above, the oil with the more anti-wear additives would have the lower engine wear, right?

Yes, generally speaking both mixed and boundary lubrication relies on the AF/AW additives. Boundary lubrication relies a lot on AF/AW additives, and mixed lubrication relies on both AF/AW additives and viscosity. Full hydrodynamic lubrication relies only on viscosity which gives the resulting oil film thickness to keep parts separated so they don't rub and wear. AF/AW additives give a protective sacrificial triofilm layer on parts to help mitigate rubbing wear. That's what is called "film strength". The film thickness is the MOFT between parts which is dependent on the oil viscosity. You need both good film thickness and good film strength to have the best wear protection.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/30835/lubricant-film-strength

 

[Bill7]

Yes, generally speaking both mixed and boundary lubrication relies on the AF/AW additives. Boundary lubrication relies a lot on AF/AW additives, and mixed lubrication relies on both AF/AW additives and viscosity. Full hydrodynamic lubrication relies only on viscosity which gives the resulting oil film thickness to keep parts separated so they don't rub and wear. AF/AW additives give a protective sacrificial triofilm layer on parts to help mitigate rubbing wear. That's what is called "film strength". The film thickness is the MOFT between parts which is dependent on the oil viscosity. You need both good film thickness and good film strength to have the best wear protection.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/30835/lubricant-film-strength

Thanks. That analysis was really helpful. I'm thinking that additive packages are a very important part of an engine oil choice.
Oils that have higher ppm of anti-wear (phosphorous and zinc) and Calcium (detergent) are likely better than oils with 600ppm of anti-wear additives.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

So what you are saying is:

Given two 5W-30 oils, one GTL and one regular group III, both with no additives at all, the engine wear would be identical,

and if additive packages were added to each oil above, the oil with the more anti-wear additives would have the lower engine wear, right?

There are enough dissimilarities between GTL and crude Gr3 that it would not be the case. GTL performs more like PAO.

 

[Bill7]

There are enough dissimilarities between GTL and crude Gr3 that it would not be the case. GTL performs more like PAO.

That is likely true in terms of GTL oils tolerating extremely high heat in engines, and also extreme cold weather engine startups with enough flow of oil, but my question was more about engine wear, and whether a GTL oil with very low (600 ppm phosphorous/zinc levels) would be inferior at preventing engine wear than a regular group III synthetic with 800 ppm of phosphorous and zinc.

 

[facility1]

That is likely true in terms of GTL oils tolerating extremely high heat in engines, and also extreme cold weather engine startups with enough flow of oil, but my question was more about engine wear, and whether a GTL oil with very low (600 ppm phosphorous/zinc levels) would be inferior at preventing engine wear than a regular group III synthetic with 800 ppm of phosphorous and zinc.

this is the same question i have as Pennzoil ultra platinum oils over say Valvoline EP,,espicially in terms of wear vs extreme cold flow.?