PEA Concentrations at the Gas Pump

Davejam · Dec 7, 2023

So I had a chance to watch the video from BG.
You dose 2 drops of whatever additive to standard gasoline, then test. Or test straight gasoline.
Its a Nitrogen indicator test, and does not differentiate types of nitrogen. I'm not familiar with this, but will look further into it.
The other products tested in that video weren't expected to have PEA - Power Service and Howes. These are advertised as anti gelling agents primarily.

You're videos are interesting. I'm surprised Chevron Techron (gas additive) tested so well. My understanding in the US that it has been watered down to
Interesting about Shell V-Power in Europe not having any? Could it just be polyisobutane additive?
They refer to it as Nitro+ in US, so maybe its something different here.

urman · Dec 9, 2023

Davejam said:
So I had a chance to watch the video from BG.
You dose 2 drops of whatever additive to standard gasoline, then test. Or test straight gasoline.
Its a Nitrogen indicator test, and does not differentiate types of nitrogen. I'm not familiar with this, but will look further into it.
The other products tested in that video weren't expected to have PEA - Power Service and Howes. These are advertised as anti gelling agents primarily.

You're videos are interesting. I'm surprised Chevron Techron (gas additive) tested so well. My understanding in the US that it has been watered down to
Interesting about Shell V-Power in Europe not having any? Could it just be polyisobutane additive?
They refer to it as Nitro+ in US, so maybe its something different here.

I’ve tested normal gas, premium gas, normal gas with 2 drops of cleaners (the same concentration as in your typical tank with typical bottle of cleaner.

Regarding Techron, I’ve tested european version from Belgium. According to OLD MSDS European version contains 15-40% PEA, the US 30-60%. I’m able to purchase and test only European version. Anyway, the product in the US shouldn’t be less powerful than European.

V-Power gas also contains amins, normal Shell hasn’t. But Diesel both versions (normal and V-Power) contains amins in equal concentrations.

meadows · Dec 9, 2023

Uh, the amount of PEA in gasoline is measured in PPM.

urman · Dec 9, 2023

meadows said:
Uh, the amount of PEA in gasoline is measured in PPM.

It's clear. But you can compare RELATIVELY to each other

priler · Dec 10, 2023

michael007 said:
Didn't realize Red Line was in the ~20-40% range. Figured it was less like the others which is why I thought the 50% of blue restore might be harsh.

View attachment 173519

There's also this to consider:

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My mechanic used to buy 300v religiously as he thought it was 100% ester and would be perfect for cleaning/protection.

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Unless you're already knowledgable about the types of esters and their amounts in each formula, I think it's easy to get caught up in the marketing.

We're often seeing reformulations so it's also tough to rely on old testimonials. Are these reformulations for the better?

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Because of all this, I'm happy we have access to HPL and I'm glad to support them.

They're here answering our questions and their products are as advertised.

I agree with the first post you quoted, no problems there. The second post you quoted, however, i disagree with.

You can maybe, just maybe, make the argument that, given the performance qualities of Redline HP oils, including film strength, that the POE they are using is of a high molecular weight and that POE of a lower molecular weight would have slightly better solvency. However, they are still both POE and both have solvency as one of their qualities, so they will both clean. In fact, it couldn't be any other way as Redline HP oil uses lots of PAO.

I would have loved to hear that conversation and how questions, or series of questions were asked. I wonder what HPL would say if someone asked them "since you use esters, does your oil disrupt deposits that can come loose and cause problems"?

BITOG has already established many things long ago, including certain qualities of different base oils, it's not wise to say this oil bottle over here, of this brand, suddenly does "this".

As to the third post you quoted, it's your mechanic who has mislead himself. Neither Motul(300V) nor Redline(HP), have ever said their oils are 100% esters. In fact, it wouldn't work that well if it were. Redline actually tells you what their base oils are if you are willing to read and comprehend, they are very open about it. Their HP line are indeed, legally (and morally as well) "ester based". It's not their fault too many people out there don't understand English.

On the 4th post you quoted, only the last sentence has significance, the rest is just opinion or is meaningless.

I urge BITOG to remain faithful to the science that BITOG has already established. Don't be like the US government tripping all over itself.

michael007 · Dec 10, 2023

priler said:
I agree with the first post you quoted, no problems there. The second post you quoted, however, i disagree with.

You can maybe, just maybe, make the argument that, given the performance qualities of Redline HP oils, including film strength, that the POE they are using is of a high molecular weight and that POE of a lower molecular weight would have slightly better solvency. However, they are still both POE and both have solvency as one of their qualities, so they will both clean. In fact, it couldn't be any other way as Redline HP oil uses lots of PAO.

I would have loved to hear that conversation and how questions, or series of questions were asked. I wonder what HPL would say if someone asked them "since you use esters, does your oil disrupt deposits that can come loose and cause problems"?

BITOG has already established many things long ago, including certain qualities of different base oils, it's not wise to say this oil bottle over here, of this brand, suddenly does "this".

As to the third post you quoted, it's your mechanic who has mislead himself. Neither Motul(300V) nor Redline(HP), have ever said their oils are 100% esters. In fact, it wouldn't work that well if it were. Redline actually tells you what their base oils are if you are willing to read and comprehend, they are very open about it. Their HP line are indeed, legally (and morally as well) "ester based". It's not their fault too many people out there don't understand English.

On the 4th post you quoted, only the last sentence has significance, the rest is just opinion or is meaningless.

I urge BITOG to remain faithful to the science that BITOG has already established. Don't be like the US government tripping all over itself.

Second post: When I think of an ester that can clean, I’m hoping it’ll behave similarly to Valvoline‘s blue restore or HPL (unless I’m misquoting, someone here wrote it should clean rings within a year). My car used to have bad oil consumption. At its worst, it was 2 quarts every 3000 miles. By the 3rd run of blue restore, I was only using a quart. Now I seemed to have gotten rid of the consumption completely after using a different kind of cleaner.

If red line behaves in a similar manner, like many here - I’m open to learn but I’ve never read of anyone showing off the cleaning capabilities like we do with HPL

3rd post was to show what a layman outside of BITOG thinks. It’s easy to be mislead thinking it’s 100% ester base oils when none of the other brands put the word ‘ester’ on the front label and 300v is priced at a premium.

Yes, you’re right red line mentions it but they’re more honest it’s a blend and I don’t think it’s on the front label so unless you’re an enthusiast, you’re missing out on the info.

priler said:
I urge BITOG to remain faithful to the science that BITOG has already established. Don't be like the US government tripping all over itself.

BITOG is a forum.. not a government nor anyone’s career. it’s not comparable and like some of the other stuff you wrote, it comes off as an attempt to derail. Ironic.

Sandstorm · Dec 10, 2023

meadows said:
Uh, the amount of PEA in gasoline is measured in PPM.

I have seen the aforementioned unit to be expressed as mg/mL

meadows · Dec 10, 2023

Correct, mg/ml.

Revving2Redline · Oct 10, 2024

Jay Freddy said:
RaceTrac and Murphy Express aren't Top Tier fuels. QT is a Top Tier fuel, and so is Valero.

It's my understanding that Kroger gets their fuel via a distribution agreement with Shell, but I have never seen a Top Tier logo on a Kroger pump.

I suspect that Kroger gas is not getting a Top Tier additive package, but I have never had problems with Kroger gas either... I will buy it when convenient or when the shopper's points add up to a sizable discount (up to $1 off per gallon).

The one thing that the Kroger Fuel will have going for it is it will have a lot of turnover so you will know for certain that it isn't going stale because they have a lot of customers. That would be one of those few times if you had a really small bottle that you had some fuel system cleaner in you could administer it during those times because I'm sure previous to that and the tank after that you would go back to a higher detergent fuel so it would all in theory balance out or at least I hope it would but don't hold me to it

Revving2Redline · Oct 10, 2024

BMWTurboDzl said:
The concentrations have been posted on BITOG before. The dosage very small and essentially intended to keep injectors clean rather than clean injectors. This is different from an off the shelf product which is designed to clean the fuel system.

Well put! Very similar to some oils that will keep an engine clean versus the one that will clean up issues that were there prior.

Revving2Redline · Oct 10, 2024

urman said:
Exactly gas, diesel, gas/diesel with different cleaners !
Deposit Control Additive in Fuel Test Kit
BG PN 995DCA
I’m testing all fuels from Slovakia/Austria/Poland very interesting results:
Shell normal diesel is the same as V-Power, so no need to pay more) BP Ultimate gas is really cool, but Diesel is not (minimum Pea), in V-Power 100 x3 PEA than in V-Power 95.

Wow I just learned something! That was an awesome post! I had no idea there was a way to see how much detergent parts per million and what it represented as far as fuel cleanliness. Now I wouldn't mind going and seeing Slovakia Austria and Poland especially with it becoming hockey season I'm sure there's lots of great hockey being played in Europe.

urman · Oct 11, 2024

Revving2Redline said:
Wow I just learned something! That was an awesome post! I had no idea there was a way to see how much detergent parts per million and what it represented as far as fuel cleanliness. Now I wouldn't mind going and seeing Slovakia Austria and Poland especially with it becoming hockey season I'm sure there's lots of great hockey being played in Europe.

Welcome!)

You can find all my tests here: https://youtube.com/@oiladditives?si=7H59H81DfAtCIK0G

FrequentlyCynical · Apr 13, 2025

Rand said:
Unless I'm misreading something (I did get up at 3am for work)
I think you are off by a factor of 10.
the 20oz techron concentrate is good for upto 20 gal.

Therefore the additive dose would be 1oz/gal (aprox)

Of course who knows how much of the techron concentrate is a carrier and not active ingredients..
so that would make it nearly impossible to know how much "industrial strength" is added to a tanker.

Almost two years later, a correction: The Techron bottles are 12 fl oz, not 20.

FrequentlyCynical · Apr 13, 2025

odie said:
GULF gasoline in PUERTO RICO is on the list at TOP TIER Gasoline , why not the U.S. ? + +

Uh...Puerto Rico IS part of the US.

Second, I've not seen a Gulf station here in many years, although I may have passed one or two and not remembered. Living in CA, CO, FL, TX and of course various road trips through other states. None in the NW or NE.