PEA Concentrations at the Gas Pump

[Jay Freddy]

Both Chevron and Texaco gasoline contain PEA detergent straight from the pump, but has anyone ever measured the concentration level compared to adding a PEA fuel cleaner such as Techron or Redline?

How would you test a fuel to determine the concentration of PEA or other fuel detergent additives?

I used always use Top Tier fuels, but Techron PEA injector cleaner did a good job cleaning some partially clogged fuel injectors on a used motorcycle I bought, so now I try to run a tank of Chevron or Texaco gas through my fuel injected vehicles every couple of fill ups.

Not sure if it's actually helping anything, but it doesn't seem to hurt.

 

[Rand]

not sure its something you can measure reliably or easily.
however chevron says if you use the fuel system cleaner concentrate according to instructions the levels are about 10x.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

I'm gonna go on limb here and say that everyone skims - no exceptions.

 

[Davejam]

I'm gonna go on limb here and say that everyone skims - no exceptions.

There are minimum requirements to use a gas additive that has been approved by the EPA in all pump gas, assuming the company has had to provide application data to get that certification. That's not to say it has to contain PEA as there are other cheaper chemicals. Top Tier is said to be 3x that at minimum. Distributors are pretty strict, branded fuel is pretty strict.

If I had to guess i'd say Techron would have ~0.01oz/gal PEA at the pump.
Which means for a 1000gal tank delivery it has about 10oz jar added (or 20oz jar at 50%additive). That honestly seems a touch high, but probably decent ballpark...maybe its actually 0.008 versus non-top-tier might be 0.002.

This was based on them saying years ago adding the techron additive to your gas gave you 10x the dosage.
And the additive dose seems to be around 0.1oz/gal or higher.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

There are minimum requirements to use a gas additive that has been approved by the EPA in all pump gas, assuming the company has had to provide application data to get that certification. That's not to say it has to contain PEA as there are other cheaper chemicals. Top Tier is said to be 3x that at minimum. Distributors are pretty strict, branded fuel is pretty strict.

If I had to guess i'd say Techron would have ~0.01oz/gal PEA at the pump.
Which means for a 1000gal tank delivery it has about 10oz jar added (or 20oz jar at 50%additive). That honestly seems a touch high, but probably decent ballpark...maybe its actually 0.008 versus non-top-tier might be 0.002.

This was based on them saying years ago adding the techron additive to your gas gave you 10x the dosage.
And the additive dose seems to be around 0.1oz/gal or higher.

Due to where I live, I only buy gasoline from Shell and BP stations. It's very rare that I get to buy it from somewhere else. And when I'm on a road trip, I still purchase gasoline from one of the major branded stations. I should have been more specific: the smaller gas stations more than likely skim, one way or another.

 

[Cujet]

As a long time performance oriented driver of heavily boosted engines, operated with aftermarket electronic ECU's, it is easy to see the difference between stations and brands, "IF" differences exist. By knock events, timing pulls, and mixture enrichment.

It 'used' to be that local Florida Chevron stations provided the best knock resistance and their fuels were capable of supporting 30 or even 33 pounds of boost in smaller engines. That no longer seems to be the case. Lately, Shell fuels perform best for me. No fuels match yesterday's boost tolerance.

I am currently running about 20 pounds boost and that's the absolute limit, short of stepping up to E-85.

And as I've mentioned before, some crafty stations in NY provide regular fuel at the premium price. Which leads to a stunning loss of MPG and power. I've been able to weed out the bad ones and again, Shell comes out on top, consistently providing better fuel. Strange.

Possibly of note, dumping a bottle of Techron does not seem to make much difference in boost tolerance. Possibly due to the carrier, and not the percentage of PEA.

 

[Rand]

if I had to guess i'd say Techron would have ~0.01oz/gal PEA at the pump.
Which means for a 1000gal tank delivery it has about 10oz jar added (or 20oz jar at 50%additive). That honestly seems a touch high, but probably decent ballpark...maybe its actually 0.008 versus non-top-tier might be 0.002.

This was based on them saying years ago adding the techron additive to your gas gave you 10x the dosage.
And the additive dose seems to be around 0.1oz/gal or higher.

Unless I'm misreading something (I did get up at 3am for work)
I think you are off by a factor of 10.
the 20oz techron concentrate is good for upto 20 gal.

Therefore the additive dose would be 1oz/gal (aprox)

Of course who knows how much of the techron concentrate is a carrier and not active ingredients..
so that would make it nearly impossible to know how much "industrial strength" is added to a tanker.

 

[Greasymechtech]

Epa = minimal requirement and considered 1x
Toptier= whatever is needed to pass the test and depends on the brand... but usually 2x-3x of EPA

Shell VpowerNitro+ = 6x EPA ... latest version is down from previous marketing of 7x EPA

So, I am just filling up with ShellVpowerNitro+ a couple times a year.... rest of the time is MobilExxonMarathonBPTexacoChevron... no need to buy any more bottles... getting ol' and lazy

There is more to a fuel additive package than PEA.

 

[Jay Freddy]

There is more to a fuel additive package than PEA.

Indeed! But Techron PEA revitalized some sticky injectors for me, so I keep coming back to it.

I have found all the Top Tier fuels to be acceptable. But the Chevron/Texaco fuel is the only one with PEA at the pump that I know of.

Not sure if the tiny amounts used in fuel as a detergent justify going out of my way for it.

For the most part, all the Top Tier fuels are priced competitively here in Dallas.

 

[Blinker]

Not sure how the average motorist will be able to test for PEA without expensive equipment and a lab.

I will say this though. Just buy fuel from locations that deliver good results for your vehicle. In my area Dallas/FT Worth, best consistency is QT, RaceTrac, Murphy Express.

Exxon, Mobil, Shell, Chevron, Valero, etc. are good quality fuels, it’s just the station owners sometimes skimp out on facility maintenance. I don’t trust the local 7 Eleven franchisee to be diligent about cleaning out his underground storage tanks, or repairing leaks when they happen. But that’s just me.

 

[Jay Freddy]

Not sure how the average motorist will be able to test for PEA without expensive equipment and a lab.

I will say this though. Just buy fuel from locations that deliver good results for your vehicle. In my area Dallas/FT Worth, best consistency is QT, RaceTrac, Murphy Express.

Exxon, Mobil, Shell, Chevron, Valero, etc. are good quality fuels, it’s just the station owners sometimes skimp out on facility maintenance. I don’t trust the local 7 Eleven franchisee to be diligent about cleaning out his underground storage tanks, or repairing leaks when they happen. But that’s just me.

RaceTrac and Murphy Express aren't Top Tier fuels. QT is a Top Tier fuel, and so is Valero.

It's my understanding that Kroger gets their fuel via a distribution agreement with Shell, but I have never seen a Top Tier logo on a Kroger pump.

I suspect that Kroger gas is not getting a Top Tier additive package, but I have never had problems with Kroger gas either... I will buy it when convenient or when the shopper's points add up to a sizable discount (up to $1 off per gallon).

 

[Davejam]

Therefore the additive dose would be 1oz/gal (aprox)

That's additive dose, of which PEA is

There is more to a fuel additive package than PEA.

While I agree with this statement in general, PEA is still king.
And even at that PEA doesn't represent 1 chemical there are various types.

 

[drtyler]

Not sure how the average motorist will be able to test for PEA without expensive equipment and a lab.

I will say this though. Just buy fuel from locations that deliver good results for your vehicle. In my area Dallas/FT Worth, best consistency is QT, RaceTrac, Murphy Express.

Exxon, Mobil, Shell, Chevron, Valero, etc. are good quality fuels, it’s just the station owners sometimes skimp out on facility maintenance. I don’t trust the local 7 Eleven franchisee to be diligent about cleaning out his underground storage tanks, or repairing leaks when they happen. But that’s just me.

Cleaning the underground storage tanks? Do any stations do this?

As for leaks, nobody wants a leak. State environmental folks end up getting involved, and it can get real expensive as groundwater monitoring will likely be needed and oftentimes soil replacement. The longer a leak goes on, the worse the outcome. Rest assured the offending tank would be at least be emptied if there were a known leak. They are hard to identify though.

 

[Blinker]

Cleaning the underground storage tanks? Do any stations do this?

As for leaks, nobody wants a leak. State environmental folks end up getting involved, and it can get real expensive as groundwater monitoring will likely be needed and oftentimes soil replacement. The longer a leak goes on, the worse the outcome. Rest assured the offending tank would be at least be emptied if there were a known leak. They are hard to identify though.

Yes, tank cleaning is a thing. Also yes, leaks are common. Google underground storage tank leakage and you’ll find that a lot of leaks go undetected or unreported.

 

[drtyler]

Yes, tank cleaning is a thing. Also yes, leaks are common. Google underground storage tank leakage and you’ll find that a lot of leaks go undetected or unreported.

Are you in the industry or repeating google search results?

Not seen a lot of cleaning of gasoline tanks. Diesel yes.

I don’t feel there is malicious intent with regards to not reporting leaks if it is a gas station. Most leaks are minor and no way to know it exists, as the fuel levels will synch with the gallons sold every day. But the minor leak adds up over time polluting the soil and possibly water table.

There is really no incentive to not find a leak and deal with it if one knows there is a leak. Far worse results by waiting.

 

[benjy]

no chevron or texaco in my NE pa area + Shell is getting scarce as well. been running sheetz gas from newly opened station in buckhorn PA, about .50 less a gallon with many choices $$$$$. time will tell but all seems fine after about 10 fills!!

 

[Nesterenko]

Due to where I live, I only buy gasoline from Shell and BP stations. It's very rare that I get to buy it from somewhere else. And when I'm on a road trip, I still purchase gasoline from one of the major branded stations. I should have been more specific: the smaller gas stations more than likely skim, one way or another.

Yeah, Top Tier big brand stations that do a lot of volume is just about your safest bet. Probably too busy and too much bother for them to play around.

 

[Revving2Redline]

I like TT fuel but I still would use a high performance pea fuel system additive maybe a couple times per year. Especially if they have a ethanol protectant, FM,Upper Cylinder Lubricant that you can't get from a solvent like Berryman. Remember the better bottle of Redline Si-1 treats 100 gallons so if you use roughly 5.33 ounces to 15 gallons that is a pretty stout treat rate of slightly over double and will do a nice job. MSRP of around 15-17$/3 makes it a five spot and you could use it every 3 or 4 months.

 

[michael007]

I like TT fuel but I still would use a high performance pea fuel system additive maybe a couple times per year. Especially if they have a ethanol protectant, FM,Upper Cylinder Lubricant that you can't get from a solvent like Berryman. Remember the better bottle of Redline Si-1 treats 100 gallons so if you use roughly 5.33 ounces to 15 gallons that is a pretty stout treat rate of slightly over double and will do a nice job. MSRP of around 15-17$/3 makes it a five spot and you could use it every 3 or 4 months.

I know most here look down on upper cylinder lubricants. It could be my imagination but the HR-V seems to run better when SI-1 or Amsoil UCL is in the tank.

Would love to use it on a regular basis instead of just a couple of times a year.

According to Afton, it does have an effect:

A vendor in China who sells a ton of it had this to say - which might be one of the reasons the experience is subjective:

 

[Blueshound]

Every station here is required to have a Veeder Root or similar system that tracks every ounce coming or going from the tanks. It identifies "leaks" or "skimming" more or less immediately. Maybe different in less regulated areas than MA and CT?