Detergents, no solvents, every fill up

[Cujet]

At the end of the day, your car doesn't need Top Tier fuel nor any aftermarket fuel additives/cleaners. Don't overthink this.

His vehicle may not need it. But my Jaguar F-Type certainly does. The direct injectors tend to fail by sticking, due to varnish and carbon. The regular use of Techron or SI-1 solves the problem.

The thing is, the Jag's injectors are expensive, and very difficult and time consuming to change, often requiring a special, brutal, tool to extract them from the cylinder heads. So the SI-1 is worth every penny.

 

[y_p_w]

I believe some level of detergents etc. are required in all fuels sold in this country. This eases the urgency of your unicorn hunt.
Techron, mentioned above, is a darling on this board though its "solvent content" has never come up. I believe it has none.

Polyether amine is a crystalline solid. It simply can't be used as a fuel additive without a solvent carrier. I suppose the detergents could be dumped directly into gasoline as a solvent, but that wouldn't work with the bulk additive delivery systems at fuel depots that use pipes and meters.

Here's an SDS for Pro-Gard, which is the version that Chevron recommends for regular use. It's a little bit different than the older MSDSs, which I remember noted an address at the Chevron refinery in Richmond, California. I remember an old HS/college classmate who worked there as a mechanical engineer, although he probably worked in the refining section.

https://www.autowaresgroup.com/msds/Chevron//10055.pdf

It says on page 2 that it has 70-99% hydrotreated light distillates, which is clearly a solvent. Previous MSDS said that it was a "Stoddard solvent", which is is also a light distillate.

Here's Techron Concentrate:

https://cglapps.chevron.com/sdspds/SDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=427751&docFormat=PDF

That list is similar, although the trade secret ingredient looks higher.

 

[DGXR]

- I believe it was Techron (could be wrong, don't quote me on that) that said that the detergents in their fuel have 10 times less concentration than their additives in the bottle. So I wouldn't put too much hope into the detergents that come out of the pump nozzle. Yes, they're there, but it's such a micro-dose that I highly doubt it makes any positive difference in real world.

Top tier fuels are tested by literally weighing the intake valves when new and weighing them again after a certain amount of engine run time. The difference indicates exactly how much deposit buildup is on the used intake valve. The amount of buildup on the intake valve determines if that specific fuel brand qualifies as top tier, or not. So there is a real world difference provided by top tier fuels.

 

[nate379]

I doubt that the fuel terminal/depot/supplier would be complicit in providing gasoline that's below the EPA-mandated levels. If Caseys (or Speedway or Kroger or whoever) said only put in the bare minimum, that's fine or if Shell says put in 2x the req'd amount of additives, sure, they'll do that too.

I've used Caseys gas a handful of times (they don't have locations real close currently but in a matter of months, there will be 2 on my route to work) with no complaints. In fact, right now I have their Unleaded 88 in my G35. This car really doesn't like 87 octane and loves 93. 89 octane is a good compromise and it runs good with it. I can feel and hear if it's got 87 octane in it (my wife and daughter have done it). It's doing good with this 88 octane in it.

Weird. I run regular gas in my G35.

 

[Donald]

Techron following the label as to frequency. Buy it on sale.

I try to use it after every oil change. Mainly on long trips.

My pickup gets a diesel additive with every fill-up.

 

[Hall]

Weird. I run regular gas in my G35.

You absolutely can and it's 100% safe, straight from Nissan's owner manual. When I said mine doesn't like 87, I can only say that after running 89-93 octane in it and noticing changes. Normal driving, it's fine, but if I accelerate just hard enough, I can feel some sluggishness as well as hear a little pinging.

 

[y_p_w]

Kirkland gas is on the Top Tier List. Kirkland Signature™ Gasoline contains five times the EPA detergent requirement.
Its 5x minimum, not 5x top tier. And like i've said earlier it likely takes min 3x just to meet Top Tier requirement.

The claim is a little bit nebulous. They don't exactly say what that means. I would point out that at fuel terminal delivery, there must be at least the EPA minimum additive, and it's most likely whatever generic additive is available for the lowest cost. But then they add their proprietary additive upon delivery from their on-site tanks. They don't exactly say if they add 4x the EPA minimum of their proprietary additive of 5x at delivery.

"Minimum" is also a little bit uncertain what that means. It could mean the minimum amount of their proprietary additive needed to meet EPA basic requirements. Every additive will be effective at difference concentrations. 5x of the minimum additive for detergent package A might be as effective as 3x of the minimum additive for detergent package B. They may not "scale" the same in effectiveness.

And the important thing for the OP to understand is that using solvents is normal. There isn't a single gas station that is going to have only the detergents without being in a carrier solvent. Just look at any SDS for a bulk detergent additive, and it will contain some sort of solvent, although the description can vary.

The Techron bulk additive used for fuel delivered to Chevron stations comes with a solvent and that unavoidable. Here's the SDS (might be older) although I can't seem to isolate the file itself which is embedded in the webpage. But it's clearly mostly solvent. The trade secret is most likely the actual detergent components. And the solvents are basically just fuel. Just a tiny amount isn't going to interfere with the base fuel.

COMPONENTS CAS NUMBER AMOUNT​

Solvent naphtha (petroleum), light aromatic 64742-95-6 44 %wt/wt​

1,2,4-trimethylbenzene 95-63-6 14 %wt/wt
01154100-5007P Trade secret 6 %wt/wt
Xylene 1330-20-7 1 %wt/wt​

1,3,5-trimethylbenzene 108-67-8 0.3 %wt/wt​

 

[FowVay]

Here's what my intake manifold ports look like after 105,300 miles of nothing but Kroger 87 octane. It's not top tier, high octane, most expensive in town, or even had pretty pumps. But I am not going to complain. Plus, I get the occasional $1.00 off per gallon because I do my shopping there. Yes, of course it's a port injected engine but I still can't get over how clean this thing is.

And if you're wondering why I had this mechanical monstrosity disassembled to this level? It's how you change the spark plugs on this thing. I had 6 hours in a spark plug change on a Japanese 4 cylinder.

NOTE: I did NOT clean these things up. It actually came apart like this. I had to wipe the dust and dirt away from where the sealing gasket sat but otherwise that intake was that spotless. GO KROGER!!

 

[MolaKule]

COMPONENTS CAS NUMBER AMOUNT

Solvent naphtha (petroleum), light aromatic 64742-95-6 44 %wt/wt​

1,2,4-trimethylbenzene 95-63-6 14 %wt/wt​

01154100-5007P Trade secret 6 %wt/wt​

Xylene 1330-20-7 1 %wt/wt​

1,3,5-trimethylbenzene 108-67-8 0.3 %wt/wt​

The trade secret component is mix of PEA's which are carbon dispersants and combustion enhancers.

We must delineate between carbon solvents and carbon dispersants and combustion enhancers.

 

[y_p_w]

The trade secret component is mix of PEA's which are carbon dispersants and combustion enhancers.

We must delineate between carbon solvents and carbon dispersants and combustion enhancers.

Sure. However, I believe everything except the trade secret is a flammable liquid. I'm thinking they might also have some components as a "trade secret" that aren't PEA.

 

[MolaKule]

I believe everything except the trade secret is a flammable liquid.

I am sure they are.

I'm thinking they might also have some components as a "trade secret" that aren't PEA.

Not according to their patents.

 

[y_p_w]

Not according to their patents.

Why would all active detergents need to be patented? As someone who works in a technical field, most stuff we do isn't patented, or may use technologies covered by expired patents. Their "trade secret" could include detergents that aren't patented.

Besides that, it's my understanding that Chevron doesn't even manufacture PEA. Don't they just buy PEA in bulk from companies like BASF or Huntsman?

 

[Davejam]

The claim is a little bit nebulous. They don't exactly say what that means. I would point out that at fuel terminal delivery, there must be at least the EPA minimum additive, and it's most likely whatever generic additive is available for the lowest cost. But then they add their proprietary additive upon delivery from their on-site tanks. They don't exactly say if they add 4x the EPA minimum of their proprietary additive of 5x at delivery.

You're overthinking this. They are Top Tier, would be difficult to infer anything more without some specific testing.

Why would all active detergents need to be patented? As someone who works in a technical field, most stuff we do isn't patented, or may use technologies covered by expired patents. Their "trade secret" could include detergents that aren't patented.

Besides that, it's my understanding that Chevron doesn't even manufacture PEA. Don't they just buy PEA in bulk from companies like BASF or Huntsman?

Chevron has used that trade secret number for a long time, we can safely say that it is PEA.
Also, testing indicates that it is a nitrogen containing compound, which in the field basically means its some amine.
Chevron does manufacture PEA: https://www.oronite.com/products-technology/fuel-additives.html

 

[y_p_w]

You're overthinking this. They are Top Tier, would be difficult to infer anything more without some specific testing.


Chevron has used that trade secret number for a long time, we can safely say that it is PEA.
Also, testing indicates that it is a nitrogen containing compound, which in the field basically means its some amine.
Chevron does manufacture PEA: https://www.oronite.com/products-technology/fuel-additives.html

They don't manufacture PEA. They buy it from chemical companies and blend it. Their research (where their primary research center is just a few miles from my home) is in identifying additive components, but they don't make most chemicals that they blend. They get it from suppliers like Huntsman. I'd also be surprised if their "trade secret" doesn't include more than just PEA. But again, it's a trade secret.

Huntsman Product Portfolio

Browse Huntsman's extensive product portfolio for details on amines, adhesives, coatings, and composites that apply to a broad range of industries.

www.huntsman.com

Polyetheramine Market Global Size, Share | Growth, Report [2024-2030]

Global |124 Pages| Report on "Polyetheramine Market" analysis offers a comprehensive evaluation of key market segments categorized by product type, application, and geography. It is divided into the size and growth rate of each regional market.

www.linkedin.com

 

[Davejam]

They don't manufacture PEA. They buy it from chemical companies and blend it. Their research (where their primary research center is just a few miles from my home) is in identifying additive components, but they don't make most chemicals that they blend. They get it from suppliers like Huntsman. I'd also be surprised if their "trade secret" doesn't include more than just PEA. But again, it's a trade secret.

There are many companies that manufacture chemicals, Chevrons chemical division being one of them.
"Chevron Oronite is a world-class developer, manufacturer, and marketer of lubricant and fuel additives and chemicals designed to help enhance the performance of all types of transportation and industrial equipment."
I'm confused why you insist they don't manufacture it? Do you have a specific reference or inside information?

Regardless they list 2 trade secrets on current MSDS:
COMPONENTS CAS NUMBER AMOUNT
Distillates (petroleum), hydrotreated light 64742-47-8 75 - 85 %weight
01154100-5179P Trade secret 10 - 20 %weight
01154100-5323P Trade Secret 0.1 - < 1 %weight

The first listed trade secret is PEA. Its not as though multiple chemicals can be listed or hid behind the same trade secret.
They would have to be substantially similar in order to do so, in which case what does it matter?

 

[y_p_w]

There are many companies that manufacture chemicals, Chevrons chemical division being one of them.
"Chevron Oronite is a world-class developer, manufacturer, and marketer of lubricant and fuel additives and chemicals designed to help enhance the performance of all types of transportation and industrial equipment."
I'm confused why you insist they don't manufacture it? Do you have a specific reference or inside information?

Regardless they list 2 trade secrets on current MSDS:
COMPONENTS CAS NUMBER AMOUNT
Distillates (petroleum), hydrotreated light 64742-47-8 75 - 85 %weight
01154100-5179P Trade secret 10 - 20 %weight
01154100-5323P Trade Secret 0.1 - < 1 %weight

The first listed trade secret is PEA. Its not as though multiple chemicals can be listed or hid behind the same trade secret.
They would have to be substantially similar in order to do so, in which case what does it matter?

A trade secret is a proprietary and could just be a blend. As long is it's "generally safe" they don't need to disclose what it is.

As for Chevron, I don't know why it's so hard to understand that they don't manufacture polyether amine in-house. There are only a few companies in the world that make PEA, and Chevron isn't among them. Chevron buys PEA from chemical companies like Nabisco buys sugar from sugar companies. They probably have enough purchasing power to get custom formulations though. Chevron and Oronite manufacture complete additive packages, which is where they blend. Not everything they sell is manufactured through a vertically integrated supply chain.

There are some interesting business relationships, including one of the heirs of the Hunstman Corporation on the Chevron board of directors.

Jon M. Huntsman Jr.

Former Governor of Utah and U.S. Ambassador to Russia, China and Singapore

www.chevron.com

 

[Davejam]

A trade secret is a proprietary and could just be a blend. As long is it's "generally safe" they don't need to disclose what it is.

On an MSDS it has to correspond to 1 chemical or very similar chemicals with the same safety characteristics.
So, not in this context.
Most detergents wont fit in the other categories already listed, IE: Petroleum distillates.
They also list 2 trade secret chemicals, so if they could just list one to cover everything why wouldn't they do that? Because they cannot.

By and large Techron is PEA and it is doing most/all of the detergent work.
Why we would challenge that given what we know is beyond me. On who manufactures it, its really irrelevant so whatever.

 

[Mephy]

Use one of the best TCW3, Mystik ALL IN ONE 1 at a ratio of 1:500 to 1:600 every tank, It keeps the combustion chamber and valve very clean.

 

[MikeB@Texas]

At the end of the day, your car doesn't need Top Tier fuel nor any aftermarket fuel additives/cleaners. Don't overthink this.

Not true in all cases! The new direct injected, gasoline motors definitely need top-tier gasoline and definitely would not hurt to add Chevron Techron every 5000 miles or so

 

[Hall]

Not true in all cases! The new direct injected, gasoline motors definitely need top-tier gasoline and definitely would not hurt to add Chevron Techron every 5000 miles or so

Show me one automaker that requires the use of Top Tier fuel. Make sure you know the difference between "required" and "recommended" too.