Currently using my Grand Marquis as a daily driver. 96 with nearly 220,000 miles now. Have a misfire issue going on but think it is likely the coilpacks. If not probably going to car heaven
Older car daily drivers
- Thread starter doublebase
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Older cars in good shape can be used as dailys with little issues. The Civics from 80-90s for example are almost bulletproof in terms i reliability, as long as they are unmolested and without rust. Quite many cars from 80-90s and early 00s are fine to drive as daily. As for me, i own a 2003 Volvo S60, had it since 2009. Regulary maintained and serviced, works like a clock.
To sum it all up, older cars as daily are really no issue as long as the car are in good shape.
To sum it all up, older cars as daily are really no issue as long as the car are in good shape.
Sometimes boring is good. Some of these newer vehicles have expensive problems and IMO it's only going to get worse. Older cars are more straightforward and easier to maintain. Only downside is fuel economy and lack of some safety such as side airbags and all these sensors that tell you who's beside you etc.
Sounds about right and I’ve already replaced some of those items over 160k miles. I imagine the one original wheel bearing remaining is one of the rear ones?
Yep, right rear...
I feel like this has been said by endless amounts of people for many, many years. I'm sure when power windows began to be introduced, there was a huge uproar on the expensive repairs/problems and how technology will cause reliability issues. Then followed by every other technological enhancement added to vehicles.
Cars are more reliable than ever and can easily with absolute minimal maintenance see 100K+. I'm sure that was not the case 15-20 years ago. Easier to work on? Probably because you HAD to work on them. Today, you basically need to change the oil and filters and you are set to go.
You are right about 100K miles usually being a non issue. However look at some cars like the Fords with DCT transmissions. Other issues are having the need to get software updated which isn't a DIY option.
I think you're right about people complaining prematurely about some new technology, namely EFI/computers, but I'm actually not so sure that cars are more reliable now than ever. I'd argue there were more "generally known to be reliable" options 15-20 years ago than there are now...lots of vehicles from that era see well in excess of 100K miles and are still on the road. The wearing out at 100K miles is more of an early 1980s and before thing, and a lot of the million mile + vehicles out there are from the mid 90s to early 00s. The number and complexity of features has gone way up since, and powertrains are designed primarily around efficiency and emissions. I'm not saying all of this is necessarily bad, but I think reliability has taken a bit of a slide with some vehicles. Of course this varies model to model, but for example a new early 2000s Econoline could probably be expected to reach mega miles with lower repair expenses than a new 2020 Transit. Another example, the GMT800s at work have been FAR more reliable than the GMT900, which is getting replaced with a three year older F-150 because it's constantly in the shop now. Over 300K is just expected from the GMT800s, but the 900 is on its second engine and last leg at a little over 200K. I just hope the F-150 doesn't develop the infamous cam phaser problem.
A lot of newer vehicles do achieve high miles, often without major powertrain issues, but possibly at a fairly high cost to keep the vehicle in good shape overall. Replacing touchscreens at several hundred dollars or more is not uncommon. Replacing $1K headlamp assemblies is not uncommon. And when they do have powertrain issues, it's a whole lot of money. There's a 2010 Traverse in the shop at work getting a GM reman engine and a PS pump...their total bill is going to be around $7K, and this vehicle has 150K miles on it and is a decade old. We priced a used engine, but it was almost as much as the GM reman. I guess it's less than $50K on a new Traverse, but I wouldn't call that more reliable than ever. I'd trust a 2000 Blazer over any Traverse. The Blazer at least won't cost as much to fix, and I've actually seen multiple Blazers and even Trailblazers with over 300K miles. I have never seen a Traverse make it much past 200K, and they need a lot of attention to get there. Explorers are the same story...1990s models could do 300K+, often on the original engine. Reliability tanked from 2002 on, and they became very expensive to repair as well.
Like I said, it varies model to model, but I think the early OBDII era was actually a generally very good time for vehicle reliability and a lot of those vehicles aged very well.
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I think you can add a few other pricey issues to modern vehicles (last ten years) —
Direct injection, variable valve timing, valve coking, low tension rings and oil consumption (seems like every manufacturer has had recalls), CVT transmissions and their early problems (ask Nissan), high pressure fuel pump cost, high pressure fuel injector replacement, Electric power steering (my lord! Tell a customer the bill will be $6,000), the one million different ways manufacturers tried to satisfy CAFE regulations (and customers had to deal with those pricey failures). Oh, there was the “lifetime fluid” phase...and manufacturers underfilling their dipstickless transmissions.
I think there is usually an adjustment period in automotive history, where the industry tries to “catch up” to their own inventions and implementation of technology. I think we just went through those growing pains over the last 10 years. I think that was a tough stretch, but I also think we have kind of come out of it improved and ok. But tell that to the guy who bought the oil burner, or had to replace 6 high pressure injectors out of warranty (because injectors are NOT covered under power train).
So I think the “best” reliability is towards the end of the industries 10 year run. I think we’re hopefully starting to see that now...direct injection is much better now, CVT transmissions too. There was a time that port fuel injection was problematic and people wanted their carburetors back...now people are saying they want their port injection back, but that will change.
JHZR2
Staff member
Lately I’ve been daily driving a 437k mile vehicle. I’ve put over 500 miles on it in the last week.
I routinely daily drive 30-40 year old Mercedes diesels. I keep them well, and have modern vehicles for other uses and peace of mind. Only once has a classic car of mine stranded me, and it was due to a seized R4 compressor ripping a pulley off. (Knocking on wood now).
I routinely daily drive 30-40 year old Mercedes diesels. I keep them well, and have modern vehicles for other uses and peace of mind. Only once has a classic car of mine stranded me, and it was due to a seized R4 compressor ripping a pulley off. (Knocking on wood now).
My 2002 Mazda protege has 240k miles and I would trust it to drive me across country. I would need some extra oil because it burns quite a bit on the freeway, but the car has only once left me on the road when an alternator failed. I love the car, and currently plan to keep it until the body is unusable due to accidents or rust or whatever may happen. I have a spare motor and a donor car with a 5 speed transmission in the event either of those fail.
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Mazda Protege! My wife absolutely murdered her Mazda Protege.
Before we were married it was her first car, bought it brand new (1995). About 6 months later she put 12,000 miles on it, I asked her...geez, how many times have you changed the oil on this thing already? She answered...what’s that? When we got married two years later I had her trade it in. But I bet that thing would have been great if she had taken care of it from day one. The service manager at the dealer told me the Protege’s were the best cars they had.
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I love hearing this stuff! You bought it new back in 83 and kept it all these years, that’s pretty cool. 37 years! Jesus.
You're absolutely wrong there. 15-20 years ago was probably the sweet spot for reliability. Vehicles that can last 500k miles plus, not a lot of maintenance (no distributor, cap and rotor to service etc). My 1980s GM's will keep going forever but I have to do tune up stuff like cap and rotor and plugs every 30k, adjust the carb every now and then.
The last few years they are just trying to meet the requirements of the EPA, so very few vehicles now don't have a Turbo, direct injection, a CVT, a dual clutch transmission, or a 8-10 speed auto, any of which will increase the long term cost of ownership for a lot of people.
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Well said and I agree...15 years ago was probably that “sweet spot”. The pinnacle of technology refinement through years of trail and error and improvement. That’s the point I was trying to get across a few posts above.
Anyone that’s worked in the industry for a long tine will tell tales of...remember when GM did this or that...or when Audi used to have that _____ problem. Or when Chrysler thought they could (fill in the blank) and it was a total disaster? Well, techs right now talk about the past ten years (of the technology manufacturers implemented) and those stories aren’t “good”. We talk about...remember when direct injection first came out? Remember when Audi’s were burning through a quart of oil every 500 miles and we had to tell them it was “normal”, until Audi said, ok we need to replace the rings. Or Honda, or GM. Remember when that first Ford EcoBoost came out??!! Oh my god, those customers didn’t know what hit them after their timing chains failed, because the tensioner failed. Or we had to drill a hole in the inter cooler to let condensation out. Or when those poor folks bought those GMC Acadias, and five years later the front of the engine had to be torn apart out of warranty. Or the people that bought the four cylinder SUV that were losing a quart of oil through the PCV valve every week. The stories are endless.
All of this is just anecdotal without numbers to prove theories.
From 2010, cheapest cars to maintain
from 2019, cost to 100k
so prices are going up, but I don't know if inflation really accounts for this or not. I do agree with the premise that older cars are easier to DIY. Software updates are the ultimate achille's heal for DIY work. But I'm not so sure today's cars are really all that more expensive to maintain than cars 20 years ago, accounting for inflation.
From 2010, cheapest cars to maintain
from 2019, cost to 100k
so prices are going up, but I don't know if inflation really accounts for this or not. I do agree with the premise that older cars are easier to DIY. Software updates are the ultimate achille's heal for DIY work. But I'm not so sure today's cars are really all that more expensive to maintain than cars 20 years ago, accounting for inflation.
Are those dealer prices? I don't get how a Camry costs more in maintenance costs than an F150. Tires are priced differently, no? Otherwise it's just a set of brakes and 10 or so oil changes over 100k. Not sure how many of these vehicles have anything else on the schedule before 100k. Outside of tires they all should be ballpark same.
Maybe in my head I'm thinking what it'd cost me to do most of that work at home versus what it'd cost at a dealer.
Maybe in my head I'm thinking what it'd cost me to do most of that work at home versus what it'd cost at a dealer.
We have few older cars, our newest is wife's 2010 Volvo C30 D2 with 140k km. My 02 Terrano 2 is at 252k km, going strong. Dad have a 2013 Citroen Berlingo diesel with 250k and a 06 FIAT Stilo SW diesel with 200k km. All cars are maintend regularly and part the Nissan haven't got any rust. Nissan would need some welding in the future.
It's not really the maintenance that is more expensive (except tires), it's the repairs outside of normal maintenance. If anything, maintenance is cheaper because so much of it is "lifetime."
It really gets crazy when you get into collision repairs. Radar units and things like that (often housed in bumpers or behind grilles, so easily damaged in a wreck) are thousands of dollars. HID, LED, dilithium crystal, kryptonite, etc. headlamps can be over $1K easily. Inflation can't account for all of that.