Oil recommendation retro fit hydraulic roller 400 SBC 500+hp

UncleDave said:
Id say this is pretty close to what you should get.

I'm curious to see if you can stabilize your dyno runs at 3K or if you will have start at 3500

Grinding in advance is convenient. I run the same 236/242 and 110 LSA, but less lift .510.
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Is your cam roller or ft? yeah i dont really care about performance below 3,500 so I'm fine if that's where they have to start the dyno pulls. the rpms flash so quick up to that when I get on it due to the gears and converter so power down there isn't really a big deal to track.
 
RickSBC400 said:
Is your cam roller or ft? yeah i dont really care about performance below 3,500 so I'm fine if that's where they have to start the dyno pulls. the rpms flash so quick up to that when I get on it due to the gears and converter so power down there isn't really a big deal to track.
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Roller, Ive done both though.

In a car or a jet boat - I dont care much about idle quality or low end power either.
You can do all kinds of stuff that makes easy HP when you dont have to worry about this.

Boats with outdrives are much harder to build for.

Boats tend to revert water back into the engine with large lift, high duration cam profiles and wide LSA's - so what works great a car will kill a boat with water jacketed headers in 20 minutes.

In an outdrive boat I have to insure it idles no higher than 900RPM (preferable 750) or you'll kill the drive shifting it - and is all-in at 6K - as the driveline parts dont like to spin above that.
 
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UncleDave said:
Id say this is pretty close to what you should get.

I'm curious to see if you can stabilize your dyno runs at 3K or if you will have start at 3500

Grinding in advance is convenient. I run the same 236/242 and 110 LSA, but less lift .510.
Click to expand...
Mine is close to that, Hyd FT 234/240 116 LSA I C/L @ 112, E C/L @ 120, WP heads, 2.05/1.6 valves, 1.6/1.5 rockers, 360CID, 10.5 CR.
Laugh all you want at my 116 LSA, but at least my power brakes work in a 1973 35 crew cab.

15w40 works good enough
 
RickSBC400 said:
yeah the newer ring packs eliminate the concern that i had with 6" rods, but they weren't around at least that i was aware of, 18 years ago when I built it.

Your story is similar to my experience with a machinist i stopped using too, the dude's goal was to bring things back to stock basically. Sometimes you get what you pay for.
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The worst part in my case was that I would have paid the same for machine work and have gotten better parts if I had gone to the better engine shop for machining. At least I who to avoid and who to go to for the next project..

18 years ago was before the thinner ring packs for sure..
 
UncleDave said:
Roller, Ive done both though.

In a car or a jet boat - I dont care much about idle quality or low end power either.
You can do all kinds of stuff that makes easy HP when you dont have to worry about this.

Boats with outdrives are much harder to build for.

Boats tend to revert water back into the engine with large lift, high duration cam profiles and wide LSA's - so what works great a car will kill a boat with water jacketed headers in 20 minutes.

In an outdrive boat I have to insure it idles no higher than 900RPM (preferable 750) or you'll kill the drive shifting it - and is all-in at 6K - as the driveline parts dont like to spin above that.
Click to expand...

that's real interesting about boat motors, i have no boat experience so it is interesting to learn about the constraints you have to be aware of.
 
RickSBC400 said:
that's real interesting about boat motors, i have no boat experience so it is interesting to learn about the constraints you have to be aware of.
Click to expand...
Amusingly, there are a couple of us here with SBF's in our boats. We also have a Windsor in ours (351W), but it's the fuel injected GT40 Pro Boss version, so it has the GT40 tubular intake and GT40 heads with a marine cam.
 
OVERKILL said:
Amusingly, there are a couple of us here with SBF's in our boats. We also have a Windsor in ours (351W), but it's the fuel injected GT40 Pro Boss version, so it has the GT40 tubular intake and GT40 heads with a marine cam.
Click to expand...

Sweet.

Whose exhaust are you running and whats the drive system?
 
OVERKILL said:
IIRC, it's about 310 or 320HP, not earth shattering, lol. But it's in a 21' Ski boat that weighs like 3,000lbs, so it moves pretty well for what we use it for.
Click to expand...

Yeah thats about where the breathing stops through something like that - sounds about right.

Not familiar with PCM - is that an inboard or v-drive?
 
RickSBC400 said:
that's real interesting about boat motors, i have no boat experience so it is interesting to learn about the constraints you have to be aware of.
Click to expand...

Boats are all over the place.

I/O's (sterndrive, outdrive - trimmable drive shaped somewhat like a Z) are the most restrictive with sub 1K Idle and 6K peak. I/O water jacketed headers and high performance manifolds are heart stoppingly expensive. 3-5K for manifolds, 5-15K for big tube headers.

Jet boats you can build like car engines.

InBoards (engine in center of boat shaft out the bottom no gearbox) - are a lot like I/O's engine wise.

V-drives (engine in backward shaft going forward to a gearbox - then a shaft out the bottom on an angle) vary from ski boat stuff
to full on race stuff (think 5000HP top fuel hydros)
 
UncleDave said:
Yeah thats about where the breathing stops through something like that - sounds about right.

Not familiar with PCM - is that an inboard or v-drive?
Click to expand...
It's an inboard (I'm changing the impeller):
7B605DC9-3C00-4EE7-A250-9B32284EBBC1_1_105_c.jpeg
 
UncleDave said:
Yeah thats about where the breathing stops through something like that - sounds about right.

Not familiar with PCM - is that an inboard or v-drive?
Click to expand...

Pleasure Craft Marine - they made V-drives too.

Popular in Competion Ski Boats and Wake Board Boats. Nautiques used them well after everyone else went indmar/Chevy. IIRC PCM secured an exclusive deal with Ford for marine windsors, If i recall correctly you could get a 240 (Could have been 260) horse carbed, a 290 Horse Carbed (which was a GT40 less FI) and the GT40. The GT40 was 310 or 320, I seem to recall they finagled the numbers when Indmar released the "Apex" which was basically a RamJet Crate Motor (remember those. ) Pleasure Craft was affiliated/a division of someone else SeaMax(x) maybe. They were like a bright Turquoise (the affiliated company,) but 95% sure it was not Crusader.

Not sure who's in that market now, but back when i was into it Mercury had the Scorpion and Super Scorpion 377. I almost bough a Malibu because you could get a Super Scorpion (it was like an 8000.00 option). IIRC a Malibu or Sanger with a super scorpion would do 55ish MPH which was cooking - that was "Barefoot" boat territory. For a while Natique had a bare foot Nautique with a BBC and Master Craft has a Prostar 190 Barefoot that was a 200HP out board. Was very difficult to get a Sanger on the east coast at that time or i would have probably gotten a Sanger.

I put 1.7 roller rockers a 90mm TB and a real GT40 intake upper on mine (mine came with what we would call a "Cobra" upper) and had it to 49.5 on GPS a gain of about 2 or a little more MPH over stock, props were harder to get because PCM was a reduction gear and spun the prop backwards from an Indmar unless the indmar was a "Pro Slot" and most were not. IRRC max sustained cruise RPM was rated at 4800 on the GT40...

Oh Crud - i'm off topic, apologies.

Last oil change i took Overkills advice and put M1 0/40 in the Roller 445, but it hasn't moved in close to a year, it was fine for the few miles i ran it
 
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DuckRyder said:
Pleasure Craft Marine - they made V-drives too.

Popular in Competion Ski Boats and Wake Board Boats. Nautiques used them well after everyone else went indmar/Chevy. IIRC PCM secured an exclusive deal with Ford for marine windsors, If i recall correctly you could get a 240 (Could have been 260) horse carbed, a 290 Horse Carbed (which was a GT40 less FI) and the GT40. The GT40 was 310 or 320, I seem to recall they finagled the numbers when Indmar released the "Apex" which was basically a RamJet Crate Motor (remember those. ) Pleasure Craft was affiliated/a division of someone else SeaMax maybe. They were like a bright Turquoise (the affiliated company,) but 95% sure it was not Crusader.

Not sure who's in that market now, but back when i was in it Mercury was in it with the Scorpion and Super Scorpion 377. I almost bough a Malibu because you could get a Super Scorpion (it was like an 8000.00 option. IIRC a Malibu or Sanger with a super scorpion would do 55ish MPH which was cooking they was "Barefoot" boat territory. For a while Natique has a bare foot nautique with a BBC and Master Craft has a Prostar 190 Barefoot that was a 200HP out board. Was very difficult to get a Sanger on the east coast at that time or i would have probably gotten a Sanger.

I put 1.7 roller rockers a 90mm TB and a real GT40 intake upper on mine and had it to 49.5 on GPS a gain of about 2 or a little more MPH over stock, props were harder to get because PCM was a reduction gear and spun the prop backwards from an Indmar unless the indmar was a "Pro Slot" and most were not. IRRC max sustained cruise RPM was rated at 4800 on the GT40...

Oh Crud - i'm off topic, apologies.

Last oil change i took Overkills advice and put M1 0/40 in the Roller 445, but it hasn't moved in close to a year, it was fine for the few miles i ran it
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Now that's a lot of history! LOL!

I know Merc and OMC both had marine Windsors too, we owned a mid 70's Glastron with a Mercruiser 888, which was a 188HP 2BBL 302 and we currently own a 1995 FourWinns with an OMC/Volvo Penta 302, IIRC, it's also a 2BBL, think it's in the ballpark of 225HP? The fuelie 351W is definitely the easiest to winterize and always starts and idles properly, lol.

Ours is in a '95 Supra Comp TS6M, you listed most of the other Competition Ski Boats (there was also Ski-Ray and a few others I think?). Friends of ours had an early 90's Supra (squared off windshield) and their friends had an early 90's Mastercraft of the same size. Our neighbours on Rosseau had both a Nautique and a Supra, both 21', Supra had an SBC in it, think the Nautique had an SBF? Was always amazed at the abuse those boats could take.
 
LOL, Yup, i have never actually seen a Ski Ray. Back then the Supra (and Moomba) Dealer for GA operated out of his garage at least that's the idea I got. There was also Tige' and "American Skier" I believe - i'm sure ive missed a few. This would probably have been the late 90's I think Fords were almost the default marine engine until this deal with PCM which coincided with the end of windsors and advent of the Mod Motor. At least that is how i remember it.

The Super Scorpion if no one has figured it out was a 377 Cube SBC that made 377HP - I believe they claimed it was built in the Mercury Racing Shop.

I'll have to see if i can dig up a picture of the old Masters Edition.

I also think that almost all of the PCMs were 5.8/351, it may be that the 240 horse was a 302 or a detuned 5.8 used in the Ski Tiqe" (SP) which was a 17 footer. I'm kinda fuzzy on the Carbed versions though i'm pretty solid on the 290, but there was zero chance is was getting anything other than a GT40 in a Nautique.
 
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