Oil recommendation retro fit hydraulic roller 400 SBC 500+hp

[RickSBC400]

Hello,

Long time lurker, first time poster. I am finishing upgrading my engine by adding a retro fit hydraulic roller camshaft and new cylinder heads. Previous camshaft was a solid flat tappet and I ran Valvoline VR1 20w50, i believe.

Now that I am going to run a hydraulic roller cam (with Johnson short travel lifters) I was wondering if I should run a different oil?

It's a small block chevy 400 cubes. 11:1 compression and sees 6,500 rpms. It is a street/strip car and year round driver anywhere from 15*F-90*f depending on the time of year and when the roads are dry enough, I like to take it out and drive it like it is meant to be.

Anyone have any recommendations on oil for me? I imagine the engine makes 500-550 corrected horsepower. Please let me know if you need any other information to help with your opinion.

Thanks,
Rick

 

[gman2304]

Vr1 synthetic 10w30 winter, Vr1 synthetic 20w50 summer.

 

[Ken302]

Sounds like a cool engine, tell us about the build.

 

[Scuder]

Does Johnson specify a grade? I know Morel specs 5W-30 or 10W-30 for some of their retrofit hydraulic rollers to operate properly.

 

[benjy]

depending on the looseness or not heavier oils protect more, my loose 50 some thou TT loves redlines 15-50 + has more vacuum on the gauge only 110 cu in but 300 hp with up to 25 lb BOOST!! only loss for heavier oils might be a little mpgs surely NOT a concern of yours!!

 

[skyactiv]

I'd probably use a Porsche A40 5W40 approved oil in it. Plenty of zinc. The oil will be marked Euro. Pennzoil makes a great one.
I assume the 400 build has longer aftermarket connecting rods, 6.00", rather than the short ones used in 400's. I know the cheap thing to do is use stock 5.7" connecting rods used in other SBC's, which takes a bit of grinding the engine block so they don't hit it, as do the 6.00 rods, too.
Any modern engine builder worth his salt won't or shouldn't go nuts with big clearances on something like the OP's build.

 

[UncleDave]

Hello,

Long time lurker, first time poster. I am finishing upgrading my engine by adding a retro fit hydraulic roller camshaft and new cylinder heads. Previous camshaft was a solid flat tappet and I ran Valvoline VR1 20w50, i believe.

Now that I am going to run a hydraulic roller cam (with Johnson short travel lifters) I was wondering if I should run a different oil?

It's a small block chevy 400 cubes. 11:1 compression and sees 6,500 rpms. It is a street/strip car and year round driver anywhere from 15*F-90*f depending on the time of year and when the roads are dry enough, I like to take it out and drive it like it is meant to be.

Anyone have any recommendations on oil for me? I imagine the engine makes 500-550 corrected horsepower. Please let me know if you need any other information to help with your opinion.

Thanks,
Rick

I put my 406's together with a bunch of moly rich assembly lube, a shot of (usually torco Zinc) and run 0W-40.

I break them in on the dyno on sweep mode, tune them - and then beat them until they explode or wear out.



Love to see your build, dyno and parts formula.

 

[RickSBC400]

Does Johnson specify a grade? I know Morel specs 5W-30 or 10W-30 for some of their retrofit hydraulic rollers to operate properly.

I tried calling Johnson and sent them an email and am awaiting a reply. They don't have anything listed on their site or in the FAQ for oil recommendations, unfort.

 

[RickSBC400]

Sounds like a cool engine, tell us about the build.

it's a world motown block
std bore and stroke 400 ci
5.7" rods (engine was put together about 16 or 17 years ago, that was a good rod ratio at the time so the oil ring didn't go thru the wrist pins, at least that's why I made the choice)
Mahle flat top pistons with valve reliefs
AFR 210 race ready heads with 65cc chambers so about 11:1 compression rato
cam motion hyd roller 236/242 111 LSA with +advance ground in .580/.580 lift
probably going with a strip dominator single plane intake (have both this and an rpm air gap)
holley sniper efi
1 3/4 headers to get rid of the exhaust.

That's about it for the engine side of things. I think this should make about 500-550hp. I'm going to chassis dyno it once I get it initially tuned. Old combo is same short block as above but with a solid ft cam and afr 195 74cc heads so bumping up compression with the smaller chambers.

 

[RickSBC400]

I'd probably use a Porsche A40 5W40 approved oil in it. Plenty of zinc. The oil will be marked Euro. Pennzoil makes a great one.
I assume the 400 build has longer aftermarket connecting rods, 6.00", rather than the short ones used in 400's. I know the cheap thing to do is use stock 5.7" connecting rods used in other SBC's, which takes a bit of grinding the engine block so they don't hit it, as do the 6.00 rods, too.
Any modern engine builder worth his salt won't or shouldn't go nuts with big clearances on something like the OP's build.

I did go with 5.7" rods, but just so the oil ring wasn't in the wrist pin. If I had to do it again I would have gone 6" but that's the choice from back int he day. The cheap thing woulda been stick with the 5.565" factory length rods, ha. Nothing relatively cheap about the forged h beam rods I put in.

 

[RickSBC400]

I put my 406's together with a bunch of moly rich assembly lube, a shot of (usually torco Zinc) and run 0W-40.

I break them in on the dyno on sweep mode, tune them - and then beat them until they explode or wear out.



Love to see your build, dyno and parts formula.

I'm hopeful to get it on the chassis dyno later this spring and see if it comes close to my estimate of 500-550hp, so anything over 400 at the wheels (corrected for altitude) would make me a happy camper. Torque probably in teh 475-500 range, and mostly interested to see how that curve is, hopefully nice and flat and high .

 

[frankbee3]

That sounds like a robust engine. I am wondering if the newer ring packs (1mm, 1mm and 2mm oil rings) would allow for a 6 inch rod and not have to wrist pin into the oil ring groove?

I just rebuilt a 351 Ford Windsor with the dished hypereutectic pistons but went with the 5/64, 5/64 and 3/16 oil rings. I let the machine shop choose the parts, but they were not a performance shop. I ended up with the cheapest stock replacement parts. Afterwards, I found a machine shop that specializes in performance engines. It is a standard marine 240 horsepower engine for my Correct Craft Ski boat. I will know better for next time..

 

[RickSBC400]

That sounds like a robust engine. I am wondering if the newer ring packs (1mm, 1mm and 2mm oil rings) would allow for a 6 inch rod and not have to wrist pin into the oil ring groove?

I just rebuilt a 351 Ford Windsor with the dished hypereutectic pistons but went with the 5/64, 5/64 and 3/16 oil rings. I let the machine shop choose the parts, but they were not a performance shop. I ended up with the cheapest stock replacement parts. Afterwards, I found a machine shop that specializes in performance engines. It is a standard marine 240 horsepower engine for my Correct Craft Ski boat. I will know better for next time..

yeah the newer ring packs eliminate the concern that i had with 6" rods, but they weren't around at least that i was aware of, 18 years ago when I built it.

Your story is similar to my experience with a machinist i stopped using too, the dude's goal was to bring things back to stock basically. Sometimes you get what you pay for.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Wow Tight LSA on that cam for a S/S. Cam motion still grinds on Gen1 roller cores?

What car and tranny?

I'd run a good Superbike 4T and keep an eye on the hot OP.

In colder months an ACEA 5W40 porsche A40 approved lube.
such as FUCHS Titan supersyn or equivalent

- Ken

 

[kschachn]

In colder months an ACEA 5W40 porsche A40 approved lube.
such as FUCHS Titan supersyn or equivalent

In any month a 0W-40 from Walmart will work well. Relatively high ZDDP level, more than sufficient HT/HS, easy to obtain and inexpensive.

 

[RickSBC400]

Wow Tight LSA on that cam for a S/S. Cam motion still grinds on Gen1 roller cores?

What car and tranny?

I'd run a good Superbike 4T and keep an eye on the hot OP.

In colder months an ACEA 5W40 porsche A40 approved lube.
such as FUCHS Titan supersyn or equivalent

- Ken

funny to me my new cam LSA is pretty wide. my old solid ft had a 106lsa to help keep dynamic compression up since it was about 10:1 static compression ratio and i'm at high altitude.

it was a custom cam grind number, but yeah they had no problems grinding it up and taking my money

it's all in a 1969 camaro th 350 transmisssion 3k stall converter and 3.90 gears. suspension setup for the track so it runs efficiently with the power it made.

 

[RickSBC400]

In any month a 0W-40 from Walmart will work well. Relatively high ZDDP level, more than sufficient HT/HS, easy to obtain and inexpensive.

that is a bit vague, why do you state any oil will do?

 

[kschachn]

that is a bit vague, why do you state any oil will do?

All the 0W-40 oils at Walmart carry Porsche A40 approval as well as similar Mercedes-Benz approvals. Within that grade they are all appropriate for this application.

 

[RickSBC400]

All the 0W-40 oils at Walmart carry Porsche A40 approval as well as similar Mercedes-Benz approvals. Within that grade they are all appropriate for this application.

ok thank you. Any filter advice can i one stop shop and get a decent filter at wally world too?

 

[UncleDave]

I'm hopeful to get it on the chassis dyno later this spring and see if it comes close to my estimate of 500-550hp, so anything over 400 at the wheels (corrected for altitude) would make me a happy camper. Torque probably in teh 475-500 range, and mostly interested to see how that curve is, hopefully nice and flat and high .

Id say this is pretty close to what you should get.

I'm curious to see if you can stabilize your dyno runs at 3K or if you will have start at 3500

Grinding in advance is convenient. I run the same 236/242 and 110 LSA, but less lift .510.