Oil is Oil

  • Thread starter Thread starter Al
  • Start date Start date
As many have pointed out, while oil is oil, add packs can and will vary. I do 5K OCIs on my cars (and others) that I service. I use name brand, M1, QS, Valvoline and some Kirkland.

If you pulled the valve cover off our 220K TSX, it would be surgical clean. Now I understand I live in a mild climate and my cars are mostly garaged... The TSX has had mostly M1 5w30, Honda/XG7317/M1 110a filters. If I had run, say the orange can/st or whatever filter and Kirkland/Super tech or whatever oil, would this engine be in this condition?

FYI, I would drive our beloved TSX to NY right now and not even check the oil.
Regardless, I love this car and believe regular services are cheap insurance.
 
kschachn said:
Wow.

And here you claimed to understand oil.
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You of all people know that I definitely understand oil.
Foxtrot08 said:
That’s at best a vague question. You haven’t really defined parameters.

So in this world you really have to compare Product A vs Product B. Or A, B, C, D. In specific testing scenarios. What engine? What driving conditions?

You have to remove the aspects that are not quantifiable. And replace them with criteria’s that are quantifiable.

If you put Mobil Gear 600 220 into a Ford 3.5L ecoboost and compare it to Pennzoil Platinum in a Kia 3.3L… uh, well… yeah what exactly are you trying to prove?


Now if you’re talking about let’s do engine test stand data. Product A, B, C, D. These tests.

There will be differences.

Now translating those results to real life, depends on how the operator of that engine is going to follow through vs the engine test stand data.

To get an answer you’re looking for, you have to set parameters.

Often times you’re looking for the proper question to ask - not an answer.
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I did not intend to make this into a 50 block flow chart. Its real simple (my question): Will JoeBlow's engine be better served or worse served by picking one oil instead of another where both are SP/SM. I can't make it any planer or simpler
 
I mean if someone offered me ravenon ecs or amsoil ss versus stp I'd take the first 2. If oil is oil and they aren't different we wouldn't have this forum..
 
Al said:
You of all people know that I definitely understand oil.

I did not intend to make this into a 50 block flow chart. Its real simple (my question): Will JoeBlow's engine be better served or worse served by picking one oil instead of another where both are SP/SM. I can't make it any planer or simpler
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I assume, you meant SP/SN.

What OCI?


Assuming not going for extended drain intervals, no. It won’t make a B10 difference in that series of engines.

But a 1 of 1 example is a bad case.
 
ULTIMATE OIL: SuperTech 15W-40.
- Nice MOFT and HTHS
- Cheapest oil on Walmart shelves
- HDEO add pack
1000018491.jpg


Dear mods, I'm pretty sure the blipped S-word is "sauce"...
 
cptbarkey said:
yet water has lubricating properties
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not really, in the body yes, in a car no.
Al said:
I really believe two oils with the same specs and different brands will produce the same wear
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I would agree with you, to any reasonable degree. I think the issue is the test subject. Lets say that you have 2 engines, made on the same day, same production run, same everything, to a reasonable degree of accuracy......

Using same spec oils, under the same conditions, will one wear less than the other? I say maybe, but the oil will likely not be the factor from which changes one more than the other. Slight variations in the engine's machining, springs, bearings, metallurgy and so on will be a larger contributor than the oil.

I argue that if you got 100 engines, ran them for 1000 hours, with the same conditions, the engines would measure different on teardown.

Will an oil make an engine last longer? There are more variables than the oil to determine this.
Al said:
Excellent Point!!
Question: Can anyone point out, based on real world UOA testing (like those on BOTOG) an oil or oils that outperform or under perform with respect to wear metals (results) against other brands with the same approximate specifications (excluding things such as amount of moly, titanium, boron, addpacks, etc.
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I would say that things like viscosity could be measured with great accuaracy, flashpoint, NOACK, etc....but not wear metals, with any real certainty.
 
burbguy82 said:
I would say that things like viscosity could be measured with great accuaracy, flashpoint, NOACK, etc....but not wear metals, with any real certainty.
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Depends on the method of measuring wear metals. Places like the SWRI can do real time accurate wear rates on engine components using radioactive treated parts to distiguish wear rates.
 
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Nesterenko said:
Why would I ever need a surgically clean engine? A little varnish is normal. Cheap insurance, here we go. I say that engine would be close to as clean as it is now with 7.5 k mile intervals.
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It's not that you need it surgically clean but that the harmless contamination you see is the tip of the iceberg. The problem is 10x worse in more important areas that you can't see without a teardown, like oil control rings. Seems engines die prematurely because of only a handful of things: excessive oil consumption leading to unexpected low levels and seizing pistons, big end bearings getting spun and lunched, and LSPI.

In all these conditions the oil plays a part, and you will often find coked up oil control rings and/or compression rings
 
ZeeOSix said:
Depends on the method of measuring wear metals. Places like the SWRI can do real time accurate wear rates on engine components using radioactive treated parts to distiguish wear rates.
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right, but not a standard UOA, and that test would give wear rates, but could it distinguish why?
 
Nesterenko said:
Why would I ever need a surgically clean engine?
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I many cases, had you owned a Hyun-Kia product with Theta 2 engine, you would need a squeaky clean engine-top-side, if your engine fails and you haven't prior oil change receipts.

Member Al has been here forever. He reserves his right to run his 10k oils for the entire 10k.
Besides, the little birdie in my head says Al has enough money to fix any oil-related problems - regarding his decision to abuse his engine 10-fold.

We BITOGERs of long standings love you AL. Have enjoyed a large majority of your posts over the years. But please live your remaining retirement years changing your darn oil a little sooner than 10k. Reward yourself with a Costco Card and get two-packs of adequate Kirkland Syn at inexpensive cost. Great for your vehicle doing 5k OCIs and you can still leve your oil filter on for the entire 10k.

If you ever run into Elizabeth, tell her we-BITOGERs said hello and are thrilled she had your town named after her.
 
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Al said:
Can anyone here definitively state that one oil underperforms and one outperforms. Ater 23 years of reading BITOG I have yet to answer this question..
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Al, I'm with ya, I think.

If you're talking for your average daily driver vehicle, using what's available on the shelves at your local walmart, auto parts store, etc. Combine that with a reasonable OCI for your vehicle/conditions (manufacturer recommendations or sooner). Given that, I believe oil is oil.

I lost interest in the other 3-4 pages almost immediately.
 
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