When I see some of the threads that do get locked, I can't believe this one has not.
How much better are engine oils that far exceed API ratings?
- Thread starter Al
- Start date
I understood the OP's question and I think you did as well. I would assume that Mobil1 EP, Castrol Gold Edge, PUP (and of course Amsoil, Redline, HPL ect...the boutique oils) would outperform store brand and lower tier synthetics.
Having said that...I do believe that most well designed engines will last hundreds of thousands of miles running ST Syn, Mobil Super Syn, Castrol full syn, and any other synthetic that meets the required SN, SP etc...rating and having OCs at proper intervals.
IMO, it's more about the engine being 'well designed' than how much the oil "exceeds API ratings". Even the best oils couldn't help the Chevrolet Vega engine last.
I agree...most responses to the OP's question should have been in the 'Humor' section.
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Without seeing all of the API specification testing and fleet test results along with comparisons to the competition, we really don't have a method to determine which oils are "best". Marketing claims cannot be relied upon as they often select specific test results where they look good, and the ol' butt dyno and other sensory observations are influenced by too many variables. Bench test comparisons without fired engines often do not correlate to real world results and can be misleading. Some oils do have a reputation for cleanliness based on a lack of sludge & varnish in the valve area, but that is just one factor in judging an oil. And "exceed" claims are meaningless - with dozens of specification test results every oil is bound to exceed the specification on some.
Of course the real question is what does "best" mean? This being BITOG we all want "the best", but best is different for every person/engine/environment. Fortunately any oil meeting the API specifications will perform satisfactorily in the vast majority of engines, which is why the tests and certification system were developed.
Of course the real question is what does "best" mean? This being BITOG we all want "the best", but best is different for every person/engine/environment. Fortunately any oil meeting the API specifications will perform satisfactorily in the vast majority of engines, which is why the tests and certification system were developed.
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Is the best oil the one that produces the least wear metal in the UOA?
Or is it the one that makes the engine last the longest for the minimum cost? That's a totally different thing after all. Seals leaking premature, compression and oil control rings sticking, soot build up on valves or in the combustion chamber are all things that don't immediately show on a UOA but cost money to fix or manage if not fixed. The better oils, in my opinion, prevent or delay those things from happening.
Low wear metals in a UOA are not a guarantee that the engine isn’t suffering some form of catastrophic failure. Chunks won’t be read by ICP.
true, but switching oils also won't remedie that. It's going to require spending to fix.
As Tom mentioned field/fleet testing is so important. You don't know anything until you test no matter how good the oil looks on paper. Some bench tests have poor correlation to engine testing and vice versa. Many things aren't often discovered until you run these formulations in engines, extensively.
Within the major brands there are tiers - average, better, best. As you climb the price ladder, you generally get better performance, which should be expected.
A long time ago an XOM engineer mentioned how he considered oil formulations like a balloon. Push too hard in one area, and you'll impact another area in some way. Point being it has to be well balanced and tested. The testing and certification process takes the guess work out of it.
Ideally you want an oil that can do many things at a high level. If you push too hard in one area, for example wear, how will that effect cleanliness etc. That's why formulations are extensively tested and validated.
So when you buy a top tier oil within a product line (use Castrol Edge as an example) you'll see it far exceeds the industry standard tests. They're giving you that information.
Also consider Amsoil needed a dew point controlled room to get their deposit chemistry down and Valvoline discovered R&P by accident through actual engine testing.
* As measured in the Sequence IIIH engine test vs. API SP test limit
**As measured in the Sequence IVA test vs. latest API test limit
***As measured in Kurt Orbahn test on 5W-30 grade
When you buy oils like HPL, Red Line and Amsoil SS, you're buying ultra-premium oils that are using higher treat rates and often higher quality components like better VII etc. The key with boutique brands is using one that has a good reputation like the 3 I just mentioned. You don't want some bobo brand that doesn't know what they're doing.
Within the major brands there are tiers - average, better, best. As you climb the price ladder, you generally get better performance, which should be expected.
A long time ago an XOM engineer mentioned how he considered oil formulations like a balloon. Push too hard in one area, and you'll impact another area in some way. Point being it has to be well balanced and tested. The testing and certification process takes the guess work out of it.
Ideally you want an oil that can do many things at a high level. If you push too hard in one area, for example wear, how will that effect cleanliness etc. That's why formulations are extensively tested and validated.
So when you buy a top tier oil within a product line (use Castrol Edge as an example) you'll see it far exceeds the industry standard tests. They're giving you that information.
Also consider Amsoil needed a dew point controlled room to get their deposit chemistry down and Valvoline discovered R&P by accident through actual engine testing.
- Highest level of high-temperature performance – 50x better than the industry standard*
- Highest level of wear protection – 6X better than the industry standard**
- 3x stronger against viscosity breakdown than the leading full-synthetic***
* As measured in the Sequence IIIH engine test vs. API SP test limit
**As measured in the Sequence IVA test vs. latest API test limit
***As measured in Kurt Orbahn test on 5W-30 grade
When you buy oils like HPL, Red Line and Amsoil SS, you're buying ultra-premium oils that are using higher treat rates and often higher quality components like better VII etc. The key with boutique brands is using one that has a good reputation like the 3 I just mentioned. You don't want some bobo brand that doesn't know what they're doing.
I only buy oil from my local Dollar Store. Their no- brand half qt's say they are the best oil out there, and I believe them. They couldn't say it if it wasn't true.,,,
I have since decided I will not use the Lucas. I will either go with Amsoil or LiquiMoly.
What is the Base Oil in LiquiMoly.
There was discussion here some time back but it did not answer the question.
What is the Base Oil in LiquiMoly.
There was discussion here some time back but it did not answer the question.
Patman
Staff member
Yea. It was just a curiosity Patman. Amsoil it is...thanks.
But would there be enough difference to make a difference is the unanswerable question. "Sometimes" or "maybe" are really the only 2 answers. Unless I'm wrong, and millions of cars running "less better oil" without harm are also wrong.
The OP didn't mention mixing 20w50 Lucas in his initial post and not until Post #8 after 5 silly responses.....I assumed he was being silly back at them.Asking what is the best oil then saying hes mixing in 50% lucas 20w50
made me think this was a troll question.
So maybe the whole thread should be moved there....
"Even the best oils couldn't help the Chevrolet Vega engine last." Ouch, that one hit home. Also, not related to the oil, the Vega rusted through quicker, and more completely than any other vehicle I've ever owned. But the wife got it in the settlement, I figured it was the least I could do.......
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