Oil in hot temps

[JLTD]

Originally Posted by mtlineman
Moving to Yuma Az with temps in the 110 range. I have a 2012 4 cyl Camry and a 2019 Honda Odyssey van with a V6. Do I need to go any higher weight oils then the factory specs for them in this area ?


Originally Posted by JoelB
Nope. Engineers design cars to be driven all over the country.


True...however we do have a member that lives in the Middle East, where temps hit 130-140°F (~57°C)! AND he has an oil temp monitor on his vehicle. I couldn't find the thread, but he charted his oil temps in his usual traffic, and a 20 thinned to an unsafe level....so he uses no thinner than a 40 grade oil.

Also, Toyota does specify a thicker oil may be required for lots of highway, mountainous, towing, etc, all which raise the temperature of the oil.

So in OP's place, based on this information, I'd run at least a 30 in AZ.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Most modern engines operate at about 210 F regardless of the where the car is. 100 F is a nice day compared to the engine temp. If it overheats in a traffic jam it has cooling problems that no oil will solve. The oil itself needs high rpm to overheat. If oil temps are above 220 F you would be correct to chose a higher weight. Do what makes you feel good.

A perfectly working cooling system can fail as the outside temps increase (delta T) and cooling system (oil, coolant, engine case) efficiency decreases.

Remember, your temp gauge is measuring coolant temp and not internal engine temps. If the oil isn't cooled efficiently, it's temp rises and it's thermal stability, wear protection properties are affected. A higher viscosity (VI) will better resist thermal breakdown.

 

[ChrisD46]

Use what's on the oil cap with either M1 EP or Castrol Edge gold jug extended performance in the Summer to keep viscosity from dropping .

 

[Snagglefoot]

Originally Posted by JLTD
Originally Posted by mtlineman
Moving to Yuma Az with temps in the 110 range. I have a 2012 4 cyl Camry and a 2019 Honda Odyssey van with a V6. Do I need to go any higher weight oils then the factory specs for them in this area ?


Originally Posted by JoelB
Nope. Engineers design cars to be driven all over the country.


True...however we do have a member that lives in the Middle East, where temps hit 130-140°F (~57°C)! AND he has an oil temp monitor on his vehicle. I couldn't find the thread, but he charted his oil temps in his usual traffic, and a 20 thinned to an unsafe level....so he uses no thinner than a 40 grade oil.

Also, Toyota does specify a thicker oil may be required for lots of highway, mountainous, towing, etc, all which raise the temperature of the oil.

So in OP's place, based on this information, I'd run at least a 30 in AZ.


Temps hit 140 F? Not on this planet. At least not yet. However, if you have some data, let's see it.

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Originally Posted by JLTD
Originally Posted by mtlineman
Moving to Yuma Az with temps in the 110 range. I have a 2012 4 cyl Camry and a 2019 Honda Odyssey van with a V6. Do I need to go any higher weight oils then the factory specs for them in this area ?


Originally Posted by JoelB
Nope. Engineers design cars to be driven all over the country.


True...however we do have a member that lives in the Middle East, where temps hit 130-140°F (~57°C)! AND he has an oil temp monitor on his vehicle. I couldn't find the thread, but he charted his oil temps in his usual traffic, and a 20 thinned to an unsafe level....so he uses no thinner than a 40 grade oil.

Also, Toyota does specify a thicker oil may be required for lots of highway, mountainous, towing, etc, all which raise the temperature of the oil.

So in OP's place, based on this information, I'd run at least a 30 in AZ.


Temps hit 140 F? Not on this planet. At least not yet. However, if you have some data, let's see it.

Hottest AIR temperature recorded on Earth is 134F in 1913 in Death Valley. Ground temperatures can exceed that, but that isn't relevant to engine cooling.

 

[geeman789]

Almost every car maker specs thicker oil for hotter temps or severe use ... everywhere but North America. My Subaru manual says 5w30 is the preferred grade for adequate year round protection and optimal fuel economy, but then states ...

However, in hot weather, oil of higher viscosity is required to properly lubricate the engine.

And ...

If the vehicle is used in desert areas, in areas with very high temperatures, or is used for heavy-duty applications, use of oil with the following grade and viscosities is recommended.

SAE viscosity No.: 30, 40, 10W-50, 20W-40, 20W-50




Wonder why that is ... ? Because one size does not fit all ?

 

[nascarnation]

The US Army does their hot weather testing at the Yuma Proving Ground, so you'll be in good company.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by talest
Maybe going up in grade won't hurt anything, but on engines with VVT it will. There is a lot that goes into this before you out-engineer who made your car, it is not always CAFE I used to think that way, there's more to it. That is one of the most cited things.


There are plenty of cases where the same engine is used in different countries (there were threads with many examples), and they specify thicker oils, so there isn't any VVT issues, etc. It really is CAFE driven, otherwise the engine manufactures wouldn't be specifying thicker oils for the same engines in countries that don't care about CAFE.

I'd be going with xW-30 in AZ in any vehicle calling for xW-20. It's not going to hurt, and will give a bigger buffer of protection if oil temp rise during use in that climate.

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by geeman789
Almost every car maker specs thicker oil for hotter temps or severe use ... everywhere but North America. My Subaru manual says 5w30 is the preferred grade for adequate year round protection and optimal fuel economy, but then states ...

However, in hot weather, oil of higher viscosity is required to properly lubricate the engine.

And ...

If the vehicle is used in desert areas, in areas with very high temperatures, or is used for heavy-duty applications, use of oil with the following grade and viscosities is recommended.

SAE viscosity No.: 30, 40, 10W-50, 20W-40, 20W-50




Wonder why that is ... ? Because one size does not fit all ?


And every car is different... for a vehicle without an oil cooler absolutely. But whether it's 50F or 100+F, my 300 sits at 195F for the oil temp. Hottest I've ever seen was 205F, because I was driving it like a race car and using the manual mode to keep the RPM's up. Oil temp dropped within a few minutes back to normal when I stopped driving like that.

 

[geeman789]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by talest
Maybe going up in grade won't hurt anything, but on engines with VVT it will. There is a lot that goes into this before you out-engineer who made your car, it is not always CAFE I used to think that way, there's more to it. That is one of the most cited things.


There are plenty of cases where the same engine is used in different countries (there were threads with many examples), and they specify thicker oils, so there isn't any VVT issues, etc. It really is CAFE driven, otherwise the engine manufactures wouldn't be specifying thicker oils for the same engines in countries that don't care about CAFE.

I'd be going with xW-30 in AZ in any vehicle calling for xW-20. It's not going to hurt, and will give a bigger buffer of protection if oil temp rise during use in that climate.


People seem to forget that at even 40 * C ( 104 * F ), the oil is much much thicker than at operating temps. M1 AF 0w20 is more than 5 X thicker at 104 * F than it is at 212 * F ... ! And as the temperature drops, the oil gets thicker still.

And nothing bad happens to the engine ... !

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ Very true.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by talest
Maybe going up in grade won't hurt anything, but on engines with VVT it will. There is a lot that goes into this before you out-engineer who made your car, it is not always CAFE I used to think that way, there's more to it. That is one of the most cited things.


There are plenty of cases where the same engine is used in different countries (there were threads with many examples), and they specify thicker oils, so there isn't any VVT issues, etc. It really is CAFE driven, otherwise the engine manufactures wouldn't be specifying thicker oils for the same engines in countries that don't care about CAFE.

I'd be going with xW-30 in AZ in any vehicle calling for xW-20. It's not going to hurt, and will give a bigger buffer of protection if oil temp rise during use in that climate.

That is exactly what I would do/did, and I don't live in Arizona.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by talest
Maybe going up in grade won't hurt anything, but on engines with VVT it will. There is a lot that goes into this before you out-engineer who made your car, it is not always CAFE I used to think that way, there's more to it. That is one of the most cited things.


There are plenty of cases where the same engine is used in different countries (there were threads with many examples), and they specify thicker oils, so there isn't any VVT issues, etc. It really is CAFE driven, otherwise the engine manufactures wouldn't be specifying thicker oils for the same engines in countries that don't care about CAFE.

I'd be going with xW-30 in AZ in any vehicle calling for xW-20. It's not going to hurt, and will give a bigger buffer of protection if oil temp rise during use in that climate.

Low viscosity oils (0w8, 0w16, 0w20, 5w20) are 💯% driven by CAFE (i posted Q&A by Eneos R&D in re low vis oils). Engine builders for NA destined cars would much rather spec a 5w30 or in some regions a 10w30/40 if CAFE weren't an issue. Heck, there are areas in N. America where a straight SAE30 will suffice.

 

[69GTX]

The engine oil cap is not always "correct" either. My last 2 cars had caps that stated "5w-20." Yet, the engines were designed to run on 5w-30. That's that "CAFE" thing getting in the way again of good engineering practices. Bean Counters vs. the Engineers. I run only 5/10w-30 grades. I'll stick with the Engineers. And I wonder how many other vehicles have oil grades on the cap that are the result of a compromise and do not represent the best oil for engine longevity and/or valve train/timing chain life. I want the grade of oil that maximizes engine life....even if it's only an extra 3-15% advantage. 250K miles is better than 225K miles if you decide to sell at 230K miles.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by 69GTX
The engine oil cap is not always "correct" either. My last 2 cars had caps that stated "5w-20." Yet, the engines were designed to run on 5w-30. That's that "CAFE" thing getting in the way again of good engineering practices. Bean Counters vs. the Engineers. I run only 5/10w-30 grades. I'll stick with the Engineers. And I wonder how many other vehicles have oil grades on the cap that are the result of a compromise and do not represent the best oil for engine longevity and/or valve train/timing chain life. I want the grade of oil that maximizes engine life....even if it's only an extra 3-15% advantage. 250K miles is better than 225K miles if you decide to sell at 230K miles.

Mine.

I will swear it 'till the cows come home that my 3.8L V6 runs better on a 5w30 (even the occasional 10w30 when I've ran it in the summer) as opposed to the mfg "preferred" 5w20. Every now and then I'll pick up a 5w20 oil on the cheap and give it a go.. I always can't wait to dump it and put back in the 5/30. The engine just seems louder from within the cabin as opposed to when I have a 5w30 it is sooo quiet it's barely discernable.

 

[Loobit]

Use a good synthetic that is of your vehicle's needed viscosity. I keep 5w-20 going in the HEMI here in Arizona, even when driving up mountains. Oil pressure is still there within spec, and it runs smooth.

 

[CT8]

Newtons law of cooling ? Decades ago the semi I drove over the Grapevine hill always did good coolant and oil temps but during a hot spell the temps were close to overheating.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by mtlineman
Moving to Yuma Az with temps in the 110 range. I have a 2012 4 cyl Camry and a 2019 Honda Odyssey van with a V6. Do I need to go any higher weight oils then the factory specs for them in this area ?



No you can use the factory recommended grade with no worries.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by Astro14
Oil temperature isn't always correlated with outside air temp. It more closely correlates with coolant temperature, which can vary with outside air temperature, but engine and cooling system design impact the oil temperature more than simple environment.


+1



I agree the operating temp different between summer and winter around here is normally less than 10F.

 

[Rolla07]

OEM works fine. I use 0w20 in my 5w30 specd corolla, works fine in hot temps of 100f plus. Use whats recommended, u wont have any issues