Which is a bit different than some supposed additive that makes the oil "better".
Oil Choice For New Honda 3.5L
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This is a whole lot of word salad to just say, "Mobil 1 and TGMO are different oils. They are both acceptable, regardless".
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Has this changed in the last 6-12 months? Because this is Hondas ultimate full synthetic oil:
And this is P66 oil:
Notice any differences or similarities?
Oh, also this too:
Carlostrece
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I don't know. See Post in thread 'Oil Choice For New Honda 3.5L' https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/oil-choice-for-new-honda-3-5l.398021/post-7314168
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Idemitsu made Honda oil in prior years. Then they went to P66.
Honda and P66 have a huge partnership now, including their racing section: http://phillips66lubricants.com/news/honda-racing-partnership/
https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/30480/phillips-66-honda
It seems unlikely that Honda would have huge partnerships with P66 and switch back to Idemitsu so based upon this info, I'd say the Idemitsu is old/outdated or Honda is making multiple partnerships that aren't public to deliver their oil to customers, maybe depending on geographic locations.
With the cold and short trips, I would recommend doing OCI at 5k not MM. Do one or two UOA after your normal intervals, use Oil Analyzers or others that do GC (not Blackstone) and make sure to request the GC for fuel dilution. I didn't request on one from Oil Analyzers so they didn't do it. Base your OCI's from there. The Lake Speed thing is good but that will give you results possibly 4 years from now depending on use.
I drove my wife's '19 Pilot a bit longer to get it hotter but no long trip. The oil test IMO was what the motor sees everyday, no special accommodations. Lots of short trips, sits outside 24/7/365, not as cold as OP. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/blackstone-vs-oil-analyzers-pp-euro-l-5w-30-5175-miles-19-pilot-67k-miles.392379/#post-7154514
M1 ESP has more certifications and an excellent choice. For me the VRP is in my Pilot with a big reason that the VCM is active and knowing history of ring issues caused by VCM in older Honda's. I'd rather prevent that issue and changing earlier is helpful IMO. UOA is great reference and I do them. The cost of UOA = DIY cost of oil change for me or basically like changing every 2500 miles with no UOA for same cost. One of my vehicles is on 3k/6 month from tested fuel dilution, one is now on 4k changes that had motor replaced due to oil burning, stuck rings, scored cylinders at ~7500mile maintenance minder changes at dealer prior.
The VRP 0W-20 is easy to get, will keep it clean, satisfy warranty documents, not expensive for early changes. If your UOA shows high wear metals due to short trips and fuel dilution, bump to higher grade like 5W-30 VRP. Keep all the information and if any ever issues you can show why you went higher viscosity.
Next oil change in the Pilot I'll probably do a UOA just to check on the VRP 5W-30 as this is my second OCI with it. Might be a bit off as it will be probably about 5500 miles with a 4-5 day, 1000 mile round trip to Virginia upcoming in 2 weeks.
I drove my wife's '19 Pilot a bit longer to get it hotter but no long trip. The oil test IMO was what the motor sees everyday, no special accommodations. Lots of short trips, sits outside 24/7/365, not as cold as OP. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/blackstone-vs-oil-analyzers-pp-euro-l-5w-30-5175-miles-19-pilot-67k-miles.392379/#post-7154514
M1 ESP has more certifications and an excellent choice. For me the VRP is in my Pilot with a big reason that the VCM is active and knowing history of ring issues caused by VCM in older Honda's. I'd rather prevent that issue and changing earlier is helpful IMO. UOA is great reference and I do them. The cost of UOA = DIY cost of oil change for me or basically like changing every 2500 miles with no UOA for same cost. One of my vehicles is on 3k/6 month from tested fuel dilution, one is now on 4k changes that had motor replaced due to oil burning, stuck rings, scored cylinders at ~7500mile maintenance minder changes at dealer prior.
The VRP 0W-20 is easy to get, will keep it clean, satisfy warranty documents, not expensive for early changes. If your UOA shows high wear metals due to short trips and fuel dilution, bump to higher grade like 5W-30 VRP. Keep all the information and if any ever issues you can show why you went higher viscosity.
Next oil change in the Pilot I'll probably do a UOA just to check on the VRP 5W-30 as this is my second OCI with it. Might be a bit off as it will be probably about 5500 miles with a 4-5 day, 1000 mile round trip to Virginia upcoming in 2 weeks.
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Carlostrece
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What you said seems plausible in regard to Honda Genuine motor oil. I wonder if Idemitu is still making Genuine Honda PSF, DW-1 ATF, gear oil, etc?
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Very possible. P66 probably just gave them a nice discount for bulk supply vs Idemitsu so their partnership and cheap product = win
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VCM-3 does not appear to have the same issues as VCM-1 and -2. There are some anecdotal stories on Odyssey forum about issues but not nearly as widespread as prior years. That said, mine has been muzzled since week 1 of us owning it. =o]
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Carlostrece
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That seems plausible.
I bought some Idemitsu PSF 2 weeks ago. Last week I went to a health food store for vitamins. I noticed the local Honda dealership across the street. So I went to the Honda Dealership parts dept and asked if I could look at bottle of their Genuine Honda PSF.
I compared the bottle of Genuine Honda PSF to a bottle of Idemitsu PSF I had with me. Same bottle, diiferent label.
I also compared the safety data sheets for Genuine Honda PSF to Idemitsu PSF. They're not the same PSF. 100C cSt is 12.6 for Honda, 7.65 for Idemitsu. Both the Honda PSF & Idemitsu PSF have the Idemitsu name and logo in their safety data sheets.
So for PSF it's same bottle, different names on labels of bottles, different oils, but both made by Idemitsu according to their safety data sheets. Genuine Honda PSF has the proper viscosity for Hondas.
Similar situation with Honda DW-1 ATF and Idemitsu Type H Plus. Same base oil, same viscosity, different additives, both made by Idemitsu (unless that's changed). Regarding the difference in additives... Different doesn't mean better or worse. It just means a different approach was used. Some Honda owners report using Idemitsu Type H Plus ATF with better results than they got from Honda DW-1 ATF saying Idemitsu Type H Plus gives smoother shifts.
Regarding Genuine Honda motor oil, I don't know. It for sure was Idemitsu worldwide, but now might be Philipps 66, at least for Honda USA. I wonder if it's still Idemitsu making Genuine Honda motor oil for use in Asia and Europe?
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A cautionary tale:
I parked a company truck at a hotel in Hinton. AB one night a few years ago. Overnight the temperature dropped to minus 42C. The next morning the truck, a 2017 GMC with the 6L gasoline engine started, but there was no oil pressure with fast lube 5w30.
After the third time of starting it and letting it run for 15 seconds I got oil pressure.
Same ritual for a truck that was parked overnight at Hinton Pulp.
After work I went to Walmart and bought three jugs of 0W40 M1, went back to the mill after eating and changed the oil on both trucks.
The cold spell lasted a week with no more zero oil pressure cold starts.
A good rule of thumb is to go one winter grade lower than you think you’ll need.
FYI, Petro-Can pcmo’s meet API SQ with pour points for life in the 51st state.
TGMO 5W-30 is still conventional.
Exactly. Honda isn't using Honda oil. They are buying the cheapest bulk oil they can find that barely passes spec.
I don’t think many people realize that most of the world views oil as a fungible commodity. Which means they will always shop on price and choose the minimally sufficient product. Dealers are no exception. They’ll use whatever they can get cheaper through local distributors, as long as it meets the not-remotely-stringent Honda requirements.
Carlostrece
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Doesn't that describe ⅓ of BITOG members too?
We've heard it many times by many members saying they buy the cheapest oil available that meets certification requirements of the vehicle. You'll also hear them say that certification the only thing that matters. They really mean certification and price matter. I see their logic, but I have slightly higher standards.
However, if I was following that logic, I'd at least want to stay with the same brand & model of low cost oil to keep the additives consistent to avoid potential additive conflicts.
I do somewhat practice that logic myself. First I investigate which cheap oils I think are the best cheap oils. Good cheap oil is my goal. I compare datasheet specs (especially cSt) and compare regular prices (not sale prices) because I want a consistent low price. I also look for easy availability. Then I try to stay with my oil of choice.
That's what I try to do, but then persuasive people at BITOG tempt me to change to a different oil that's better quality for equal cost, or equal quality for lower cost. Then I'm too weak to resist the temptation to switch to a different oil.
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There used to a time when you were reasonably assured that dealerships would be using their manufacturers branded oil mostly - like TGMO at Toyota dealership, BMW Twin-power at BMW dealrships, but nowadays it's likely that it is mostly bulk oil (cheaper than the rest) that meets spec - though I am not sure how anyone can say for sure which oil comfortably passes specs vs one that barely passes spec.
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Dealerships don't have to use the OEM oil. His point is that dealer service department bulk tanks are often filled with the cheapest "meets the spec" oil that they can locally source.
They don't use OEM oil, just like you don't get TGMO at Toyota dealers. Like others have mentioned, you get cheap bulk oil. This is corroborated by many people who work at dealers in the service department. They are there to see how the bulk tanks get filled. For Toyota anyway, you can pay more and specifically request TGMO, but again, it's a special request and more expensive. Doing an HPL change yourself would be far cheaper.
And using a commonly available Walmart oil, would be far far far cheaper, than HPL
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