Oil and noise

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Got ragged on back in the day for suggesting that when I ran my 4Runner (3VZE) on Mobil 1 0W40 it rattled like a tin pail full of bolts..."placebo" it was called.

Anyway, there's papers on the topic of engine accoustics and different oils, and the differences can be quite significant (remember, 3dB is doubling of sound pressure).

What do they attribute the reduction after a week to?

15 mins no problem, that'd be expected, and I could see it might change when fully warmed up, though I'd have thought perhaps in the other direction due to thermal thinning.

Not sure what "1 week" means. Presumably not a week of continuous operation, but whatever it means there seems to be some progressive change with some vehicles.

Could do with a more complete time-course from zero. Probably a bigger vehicle sample too given the variation, but there seems to be some suggestion of a mileage effect.

Inclusion of some trendy skinny oils would also be of interest.

 

[Olas]

M1 creates noise where there was silence.
Redline creates quiet&smooth in every application.

 

[Shannow]

Ducked, I introduced the paper here
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3839393/Re:_Engine_Noise_Level_after_o#Post3839393

have a look.

 

[FCD]

Has anybody proven that molybdenum makes engines quieter as some people say?

 

[FCD]

Originally Posted By: i_hate_autofraud

Yeah, thicker oil makes for a quieter engine but the cost is increased wear in the cyclinders
where oil rings can't spread and scrap back thicker oil as well as spec viscosity oil.

Thicker oil favors main bearings, camshaft bearings, hydraulic lifters, etc, and lower oil loss at crankshaft seals.

If you wanna do lots of miles, 250K +, stick with spec oil and put up with the noise! LOL

BTW yrs ago I ran a 318CI V8 with leaky rear crank seal that lost 1 quart of 10W30 oil EVERY day!

With 20W50, leaks dropped like a stone, used 20W50 even in the winter! Engine was clapped out already at 300K miles,
so no big deal with compromising cyclinder wear. LOL


What is that an M20 engine? old BMWs are not scared of 20W-50, all of europe ran on 20W-50 until the early 80s.

 

[Bud]

Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
It means the residual oil film is somewhat thicker and that quiets the moving parts.



unproven. Just your guess.


Pretty good guess I think.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Bud
Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
It means the residual oil film is somewhat thicker and that quiets the moving parts.



unproven. Just your guess.


Pretty good guess I think.


I think so too.

 

[4wd]

Again post numbers like I did ...

 

[tojo1968]

Originally Posted By: Camprunner
Since 2012 I have used many different oils in my 12 Nissan Pathfinder VQ40DE V6 and something interesting I have noticed is the difference in start up noise. The VQ40 V6 is not the quietest motor on start up you can usually make out some timing chain noise on start as the big chain rides on the chain guides. But I have noticed a significant difference in the oil that I use. Mobil 1 seems to make the most noise in any grade 5,10/30 or 0w40. Followed by Castrol full synthetic (black bottle) 5w30 then the 0w40 grade yet quieter still is Castrol GTX Magnatec 5w30. By far the quietest and smoothest oil I have used is also the cheapest I have run Formula Shell 10w40 I get no start up noise at all. What does it all mean? I have no idea! I am going to do a used oil analysis on the Shell 10w40 though just for kicks!

The truck in my signature has the same engine. I have experimented as well with different oils. Castrol Magnatec and Havoline Pro DS are the best I have found with quieting the start up rattle.

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Got ragged on back in the day for suggesting that when I ran my 4Runner (3VZE) on Mobil 1 0W40 it rattled like a tin pail full of bolts..."placebo" it was called.

Anyway, there's papers on the topic of engine accoustics and different oils, and the differences can be quite significant (remember, 3dB is doubling of sound pressure).

Some people will take your statement "3 DB is doubling of sound pressure" to mean twice as loud which it is not.

Just so everyone is clear, the human ear will detect a 3 DB increase in sound as only slightly louder.
You would need to increase sound to 10 DB or more for it to sound twice as loud.

As an example, lets say a music amplifier, you would have to double the amount of power,
Increasing 100 watts of output to 200 watts output would increase the sound level 3 DB and the human ear would hear that as slightly louder. Some may not even detect a change.


Many sources on the internet Here Is One

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
It means the residual oil film is somewhat thicker and that quiets the moving parts. Noise means impact. Quiet means parts sliding past each other.

Choice is yours, but I take quiet every time I can get it

I agree, Ill take quiet.
Maybe why I prefer conventional and semi oils, Its not about cost, its about the API rating and all oils with equal APIs chances are the engine will outlast the car. I dont care if its $10 a quart oil or $2 a quart oil of equal API. No one will ever convince me the $10 quart cost more then $2 to produce.

Anyway, back to the subject, I think the OP will find, as he has, simple cheap, conventional Shell oil will be nice and quiet, as well as $1.90 a quart Sams Club oil compared to full synthetic Mobil 1.

I suspect as well, the damping factors of conventional are superior to synthetic and also "residual" oil film.

Everyone talks about how great synthetic flows and others how great Magnatec is. But I feel good old conventional oil may be just as sticky as the company selling you Magnatec at 8 times the profit.

Everything is about marketing, everyone gets sold on synthetic, at grossly higher profits for the oil companies, then as time goes on, the companies figure out how to get wear and noise down to the level of the better conventional oils on the market.

I do agree synthetics will flow better at start up and MAY be a good choice in the most extreme cold places up north and Canada.
Bottom line, they all carry the same API so go with what makes you feel best in your vehicle.

Noise bothers the OP and I think he is good with his Shell Conventional. )

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
Has anybody proven that molybdenum makes engines quieter as some people say?


I used to think this, but in back to back runs of oils containing moly and oils lacking it, I detect no difference in sound or engine smoothness.
For example, the 351W in my old E350 seems just as smooth and quiet on Durablend 10w30, which IIRC contains no moly as it did on the previous fill of Nextgen Maxlife in the same grade, a Maxlife SB formulation that does contain a useful amount of moly.
Also, the old GC 0w30 had no moly but was often remarked upon as quieting down many an engine, although its high HTHS probably played a role in this. I noted this myself when running this oil in a couple of Accords years back.
The most reliable method of quieting down an engine in my experience has always been to use a thicker grade.
One of the Accords I noted above had a run of Pennzoil Conventional 10w40 that I had left over from another application. I figured on a warm weather run of this stuff just to get rid of it. I was astounded at how much smoother and quieter the engine seemed. I've observed the same with my old BMW in which I've found Mobil 1 15W-50 to be much smoother and quieter than the 10W-40s I usually use in it.

 

[BrocLuno]

Anecdotal like my life long experiences. But once a person has seen/heard the results - not goinna be swayed by marketing.

M1 is a fine oil and well regarded by many. But it's been too noisy for me, every time I've tried it ... That is in three different cars.

Always went with something else that quited them down. Just makes me feel better to not listen to the racket as the old motor comes to life ...

And I own shares in XOM, so it's in my best interests to buy their products ...

 

[fdcg27]

A lot of folks here have written over the years that they've found M1 to be a noisy oil in their applications.
I've used a lot of the stuff over the years and have never found that to be so.
However, this has been mentioned in enough different threads by enough different members that I think there must be something to it.

 

[dorvin]

Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
Originally Posted By: i_hate_autofraud

Yeah, thicker oil makes for a quieter engine but the cost is increased wear in the cyclinders
where oil rings can't spread and scrap back thicker oil as well as spec viscosity oil.

Thicker oil favors main bearings, camshaft bearings, hydraulic lifters, etc, and lower oil loss at crankshaft seals.

If you wanna do lots of miles, 250K +, stick with spec oil and put up with the noise! LOL

BTW yrs ago I ran a 318CI V8 with leaky rear crank seal that lost 1 quart of 10W30 oil EVERY day!

With 20W50, leaks dropped like a stone, used 20W50 even in the winter! Engine was clapped out already at 300K miles,
so no big deal with compromising cyclinder wear. LOL


What is that an M20 engine? old BMWs are not scared of 20W-50, all of europe ran on 20W-50 until the early 80s.


I was thinking the 318 mentioned was an old Chrysler/Mopar engine, they made a 318 V8 for decades.

 

[4wd]

I have used it for decades - with no noise issues. However - many of my cars have gone from 0k to 100k (max 140k) whereas BrocL does not buy them until 100k ... if I did more of that - would use more HDEO as well - but having a couple TDI motors still in warranty - will do M1/PP in those for now ...

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: 4WD
I have used it for decades - with no noise issues. However - many of my cars have gone from 0k to 100k (max 140k) whereas BrocL does not buy them until 100k ... if I did more of that - would use more HDEO as well - but having a couple TDI motors still in warranty - will do Mobil 1/PP in those for now ...


Same here. All of my vehicles were purchased either new or with very low miles. In my 39 years of using various Mobil 1 oils in all types of engines, I have never had an engine that was noisy. For that matter, I have never had an engine that showed any sign of wear. Some with well over 300K(miles). Always at 10K OCIs.

 

[fdcg27]

Okay, but if the only oil you've used in nearly four decades has been M1 then you really have no standard of comparison.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Okay, but if the only oil you've used in nearly four decades has been M1 then you really have no standard of comparison.


The mechanic skills I have aren't up to Trav's, but I first started working on engines around 1958. I'm well versed in "peculiar engine noise 101". Seriously, I hear noisy engines often, but none of them are mine.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Okay, but if the only oil you've used in nearly four decades has been M1 then you really have no standard of comparison.


The mechanic skills I have aren't up to Trav's, but I first started working on engines around 1958. I'm well versed in "peculiar engine noise 101". Seriously, I hear noisy engines often, but none of them are mine.


I think that you've missed the point that I was trying to make.
I'll put it this way and then leave it alone:
Put a fill of Syntec 0w30 in either of your high mileage four cylinder engines and you'll be astounded at just how much smoother and quieter engine operation becomes.
Normal noise is hardly the same as noises signaling impending failure and even those with zero mechanical skills can usually detect the difference.
Some oils are simply better at masking normal mechanical noises than are others, but if you've only used one oil, you'd never know this.