OffShore Drilling = Oil Independence in 6 yrs?

[Duffman77]

Originally Posted By: Scott P
They aren't drilling on the leases they currently hold. [censored], all the quipemnt needed to drill already has a full scedule. If they won't do anything with what they currently have, what makes people think they'll do anything by giving them more leases?


Just like every other private business in the world, companies really are not interested in selling you their product, the oil companies do give a shake about selling oil, they only want to make money. They would sell dog turds if they could get a couple bucks for the pile.

The oil companies want more leases because they want oil that is cheaper to drill so they can make a larger margin on what they take out of the ground.

 

[Duffman77]

Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Does it really matter if other countries like us?

To H*ll with all your allies, next time dont ask for any help after someone flies an airplane into one of your buildings. Why dont you ask the Austrialian here how many times your country has aided his and how many times his country has aided yours in war.

Originally Posted By: Panzerman
France is a perfect example, they should love us for what we did for them, do they stand behind us at all? France is for France.


You seem to have all the answers, give us the history lesson.

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Got a problem with France, then chop up that stupid statue and send it back...start a petition right now to get it done.

+1

 

[javacontour]

I heard a guy on the radio today and what he said makes sense. I don't recall his name, but he former ran the TVA as well as LA county water. He was calling for more renewable resources which is good.

While I don't agree with how he looked at a lot of things, some of the things he said made sense.

Given corporate culture AND OPEC, I'm not sure domestic drilling would really make much of a difference. Here is why?

Oil is priced based on world-wide demand. So even if we could produce 100% of what we needed, OPEC can still adjust their production to achieve the prices they want. They may sell fewer barrels, and yes their notorious cheating may drive the price down a bit.

However, OPEC can twart most if not all of our efforts to drop the price of oil by increasing domestic production. Since, as has been accurately stated before, businesses are out to make a buck. So if they think they can make a bigger buck by putting the oil out on the world market, it's likely they would.

If they are forced to sell the oil domestically at a lower price, they'll likely not pump as much from the ground, as the incentive to use their resources is likely higher on the open market.

So domestic drilling may not have the impact we think it would, given how OPEC can play with their production to impact the world price of oil.

The only real way to control how much you pay is to reduce your demand to near zero.

I don't think it will happen overnight. But I do think getting off of petroleum is the way to go.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
I heard a guy on the radio today and what he said makes sense. I don't recall his name, but he former ran the TVA as well as LA county water. He was calling for more renewable resources which is good.

While I don't agree with how he looked at a lot of things, some of the things he said made sense.

Given corporate culture AND OPEC, I'm not sure domestic drilling would really make much of a difference. Here is why?

Oil is priced based on world-wide demand. So even if we could produce 100% of what we needed, OPEC can still adjust their production to achieve the prices they want. They may sell fewer barrels, and yes their notorious cheating may drive the price down a bit.

However, OPEC can twart most if not all of our efforts to drop the price of oil by increasing domestic production. Since, as has been accurately stated before, businesses are out to make a buck. So if they think they can make a bigger buck by putting the oil out on the world market, it's likely they would.

If they are forced to sell the oil domestically at a lower price, they'll likely not pump as much from the ground, as the incentive to use their resources is likely higher on the open market.

So domestic drilling may not have the impact we think it would, given how OPEC can play with their production to impact the world price of oil.

The only real way to control how much you pay is to reduce your demand to near zero.

I don't think it will happen overnight. But I do think getting off of petroleum is the way to go.


Tell me about it

Canada has enough oil currently to be self-sufficient. We are an oil exporting nation. Yet we pay even more than you do!!! This whole system is a farce.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Who cares if the oil companies get rich and the states get rich? These are American companiies. I dont believe in Conservation. Conservation means slowing the economy, means less people going places, less spending and less revenue in general. Iam so sick of hearing how much of the worlds oil supply the U.S uses, I wish we used 100% of it. I could care less how they get around in China. Everybody that has guity conscience about living high in the United States, is welcome to move to Mexico and live a very conservative lfe, you wont even have to make the choice to. Everybody worries about everyone else, what they drive,SUVs are evil now, what they eat, what they buy, I heard a commercial for Tobacco free Florida the other day, who is that, surely not smokers, so why are they trying to put the tobacco companies out of bussiness, all American companies, that they have no interest in, but the interest of others(I dont smoke or chew, but I respect your right to) and if you want to drive a SUV, I think you deserve that right. I think conservation does no one good, not car companies, not oil companies, not local bussinesses and not Americans, who have the jobs with car companies, oil companies etc.. When you spend someone else sells and they spend, see where Iam going here..


Panzerman. How old are you?? You've got all the "mash the pedal to the metal" of a geezer who isn't going to see the end of the party in his lifetime, but you've got the naivete of a very young man.

Has it ever occurred to you that existence within our universe just may disagree with your take on things? That is, you can't just "wish" the world as you want it?

I think that this is going to be hardest on someone like you. Reality is a very cruel teacher at times.

 

[glennc]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Canada has enough oil currently to be self-sufficient. We are an oil exporting nation. Yet we pay even more than you do!!! This whole system is a farce.

It's not a farce. It's a "market." What that means is that Canada is able to sell its oil worldwide at prevailing prices and to gain the benefit of the incoming dollars. If it were to keep its oil in-country, then yes, you might be able to buy gas cheaper for your car, but there would be a net overall cost because those incoming dollars would be lost and replaced by a much smaller benefit. In general, the idea of capitalism is that whoever is willing to pay the most is he who benefits the most from the purchase, and he who sells for the most benefits the most from the sale.

How those incoming net dollars are spent is another consideration, of course.

 

[glennc]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
Given corporate culture AND OPEC, I'm not sure domestic drilling would really make much of a difference. Here is why?

Oil is priced based on world-wide demand. So even if we could produce 100% of what we needed, OPEC can still adjust their production to achieve the prices they want. They may sell fewer barrels, and yes their notorious cheating may drive the price down a bit.

However, OPEC can twart most if not all of our efforts to drop the price of oil by increasing domestic production. Since, as has been accurately stated before, businesses are out to make a buck. So if they think they can make a bigger buck by putting the oil out on the world market, it's likely they would.

If they are forced to sell the oil domestically at a lower price, they'll likely not pump as much from the ground, as the incentive to use their resources is likely higher on the open market.

Couple of points on that. Your last paragraph would go well with my last post in this thread about Canadian oil production. If Canada's oil producers were forced to sell at a lower in-country price, they would naturally have less incentive to produce.

As to OPEC, they have long understood that maximizing the price of oil is not to their benefit, as high oil prices incent reductions in demand and production of alternatives. For a long time they said their target price was around $30/barrel or so; this goes back to when oil was selling for $10/barrel or in that ballpark. Since then the dollar has almost halved, so perhaps they'd like to get $60 from each current barrel, but even with a large margin for error one might expect that they themselves could find today's prices too high for their own maximum benefit.

Another thing is that if production is increased anywhere outside OPEC control, then the level of control exerted by OPEC is proportionately decreased, and that seems to me to be generally a desirable thing.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: glennc
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Canada has enough oil currently to be self-sufficient. We are an oil exporting nation. Yet we pay even more than you do!!! This whole system is a farce.

It's not a farce. It's a "market." What that means is that Canada is able to sell its oil worldwide at prevailing prices and to gain the benefit of the incoming dollars. If it were to keep its oil in-country, then yes, you might be able to buy gas cheaper for your car, but there would be a net overall cost because those incoming dollars would be lost and replaced by a much smaller benefit. In general, the idea of capitalism is that whoever is willing to pay the most is he who benefits the most from the purchase, and he who sells for the most benefits the most from the sale.

How those incoming net dollars are spent is another consideration, of course.


Sorry, the part that I meant was a farce was that we pay substantially more for fuel than those south of the border, yet given our "position", this should not be the case.

 

[Duffman77]

Its tax Overk1ll,
There going to take it from your pay or GST/PST or property tax to get their revenue. Taxing Fuel is just anouther stream to get the required revenue. Its a better stream IMO.

Bingo! Gasoline costs about the same in most developed countries. The difference in what you pay is primarily in the taxes.

 

[glennc]

Yes, I guess that's true. I said it's a "market." But with tax, it's a messed-with market. Maybe that makes a farce.

 

[Gary Allan]

There's a pretty comfortable and clean society to support north of the border. The influx of $$ supports that. Domestic and export economies can be very different.

It may have changed now, but Argentine beef was very expensive in Argentina since it was all targeted for export to the USA ..to get US$$$ (valued, at the time). The stuff was very cheap here in the USA.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Duffman77
Its tax Overk1ll,
There going to take it from your pay or GST/PST or property tax to get their revenue. Taxing Fuel is just anouther stream to get the required revenue. Its a better stream IMO.


Yes, I am aware of it being tax. we've got fabulous taxes! Like that "temporary" GST that has only recently been reduced.......

That's why there's that lovely little pie chart on the pumps showing that the "profit" is like 2% and tax makes up the vast majority

 

[Panzerman]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Who cares if the oil companies get rich and the states get rich? These are American companiies. I dont believe in Conservation. Conservation means slowing the economy, means less people going places, less spending and less revenue in general. Iam so sick of hearing how much of the worlds oil supply the U.S uses, I wish we used 100% of it. I could care less how they get around in China. Everybody that has guity conscience about living high in the United States, is welcome to move to Mexico and live a very conservative lfe, you wont even have to make the choice to. Everybody worries about everyone else, what they drive,SUVs are evil now, what they eat, what they buy, I heard a commercial for Tobacco free Florida the other day, who is that, surely not smokers, so why are they trying to put the tobacco companies out of bussiness, all American companies, that they have no interest in, but the interest of others(I dont smoke or chew, but I respect your right to) and if you want to drive a SUV, I think you deserve that right. I think conservation does no one good, not car companies, not oil companies, not local bussinesses and not Americans, who have the jobs with car companies, oil companies etc.. When you spend someone else sells and they spend, see where Iam going here..


Panzerman. How old are you?? You've got all the "mash the pedal to the metal" of a geezer who isn't going to see the end of the party in his lifetime, but you've got the naivete of a very young man.

Has it ever occurred to you that existence within our universe just may disagree with your take on things? That is, you can't just "wish" the world as you want it?

I think that this is going to be hardest on someone like you. Reality is a very cruel teacher at times.
Iam 38, full time employed in the construction field with a wife and two kids and my guess would be that you are a retired man assumebly from a union job with retirement and conserving is no big deal where as I "wish" to push full forward. Iam not worried about the Universe or the planet, because I have enough common sense to realize the planet and the universe are going to do whatever it pleases and we have about as much control as dinosaurs, who had no "carbon footprints" did them alot of good-huh.

 

[Gary Allan]

Well, I'm semi-retired, 52. I don't have a big pension to look forward to. It won't be worth anything when I can collect it. My last real job was a union job ..but only by accident. They would have liked to pay me more ..and I would have done it for less. I've built 3 empires and had them all topple before my eyes in a blink ..and really have no desire to go back into any squirrel cage to exist and go "not very far".

Now I can appreciate your ambition, but I think you're really misplacing a bit of effort here. Look around you. Just go and watch the lines of people carting out junk out of WM ..endlessly. Go inside and look at aisle after aisle of "stuff". That's what most of it is is "stuff". Two entities are given a purpose. Those who make "stuff" of no particular value ..and those who consume stuff of no particular value. All of this "stuff" is merely a medium of exchange of purposes.

What makes you think that this can only be achieved with the full throttle consumption and depletion of finite resources ...and if it can be done with alternatives (either by choice or by necessity), why would you oppose it?

Of course, we could just make cheap money available ..build a bunch of new houses ..that spurs consumption and growth ..then we when we run out of qualified buyers we go into creative financing to keep it going ..and that will keep the numb happy and consuming ...then we can ........oops ...we already tried that. Sorry.

Next scam, please.

 

[Panzerman]

I will agree on the Walmarts and "stuff", I try to avoid them myself, Ive caught myself buying "stuff" to only come home and shelf it with more "stuff". People are carried away with credit and need to pay off items before they buy more items, Iam not full tilt, spend,spend,spend. I do believe in exspansion and developement of business. Seems like their is a hatred for big bussiness, yet thats where the jobs lie. My latest example the state of Florida is buying out the Sugar cane growers so they can return the everglades, 1700 people out of work, so Aligators and snakes can have a natural habitat. This is what Iam aginst and I cant see it. What good are aligators? They should give people the right to kill everyone they see, they are not pretty, not nice, they are here for no other reason, that people dont want to be responsible for wiping them out, yet they should be because they are deadly and will never be anything but a danger.What makes more sense, reclaiming the everglades for humans to live on and creating a tax base or taking tax payers money and creating a habitat for aligators, that humans will never venture into and come out alive. Its this "stuff" that agrevates me. Maybe Iam stuck in the wrong time, because you realize, the railroads would not have connected the East and West because of the buffalo in todays world, it would have been to disruptive to their (buffalos)enviroment.

 

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
Take the oil from Iraq till the trillions $$$ cost of the Iraqi freedom is repaid to the U.S.tax payers and the care to the soldiers who have been injured/killed fighting to give the wonderful Iraqi people their freedom and a democratic government they did not have to fight for.

Yep, that's the plan, whether they want it or not!

 

[Panzerman]

Originally Posted By: Duffman77
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Does it really matter if other countries like us?

To H*ll with all your allies, next time dont ask for any help after someone flies an airplane into one of your buildings. Why dont you ask the Austrialian here how many times your country has aided his and how many times his country has aided yours in war.

Originally Posted By: Panzerman
France is a perfect example, they should love us for what we did for them, do they stand behind us at all? France is for France.


You seem to have all the answers, give us the history lesson.

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Got a problem with France, then chop up that stupid statue and send it back...start a petition right now to get it done.

+1
Ill give you a quick history lesson, twice the United States has defeated the German war machine and saved Europe. France would not even let us use thier air space to fly missions aginst Libia for this. I didnt know your forces were alot of help when they flew airplanes into our buildings, what did you send to Iraq, a 1000TH of what the U.S did. With the Exception, of the British, noone else has been alot of help or sent "significant" forces. If the soviets decided to invade Canada tomaarow, WHO do you think is going to stop them, the Canadian air force? WHO do you think keeps any of these countries in check around the world? The Austrailians? Its ironic, that the Japanese appreiceate the Americans more now then the countries they saved during world war two from the Axis. The statue of Liberty was a gift from another time, from another France, I doubt we would even get a card from them now.

 

[Steve S]

Gary I am so impressed with the truth of the post!!!

 

[Steve S]

That and the U.S taxpayers wealth is redistributed around the world by most all of our politicians and their wives.

 

[Steve S]

Shoot and shovel