It's not what you say, it's how you say it. I agree that straight up "gameplay" is verboten.
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I don't know what field you are in. But you are just out of school with knowledge but limited experience. You need that first job to gain experience on paper and to build your reputation. Unless its crazy low, I would get your foot in the door, build bridges and contacts and build your reputation. Not being harsh but I think your negotiation ability is low right out of school , unless you have a really niche skill that is not common at all.
I think if you do a good/great job, build your reputation, you could easily talk about pay at your 1st yearly review. Something like , I know the starting pay i took was low, but commensurate with my experience level. Have I performed to a level that might warrant my pay to be reviewed?
I think if you do a good/great job, build your reputation, you could easily talk about pay at your 1st yearly review. Something like , I know the starting pay i took was low, but commensurate with my experience level. Have I performed to a level that might warrant my pay to be reviewed?
How far off is the offer? If not too far off, just accept it.
Originally Posted By: spasm3
I don't know what field you are in. But you are just out of school with knowledge but limited experience. You need that first job to gain experience on paper and to build your reputation. Unless its crazy low, I would get your foot in the door, build bridges and contacts and build your reputation. Not being harsh but I think your negotiation ability is low right out of school , unless you have a really niche skill that is not common at all.
I think if you do a good/great job, build your reputation, you could easily talk about pay at your 1st yearly review. Something like , I know the starting pay i took was low, but commensurate with my experience level. Have I performed to a level that might warrant my pay to be reviewed?
Agreed.
Usually first jobs (out of college) are a take-it or leave-it situation when it comes to compensation.
I don't know what field you are in. But you are just out of school with knowledge but limited experience. You need that first job to gain experience on paper and to build your reputation. Unless its crazy low, I would get your foot in the door, build bridges and contacts and build your reputation. Not being harsh but I think your negotiation ability is low right out of school , unless you have a really niche skill that is not common at all.
I think if you do a good/great job, build your reputation, you could easily talk about pay at your 1st yearly review. Something like , I know the starting pay i took was low, but commensurate with my experience level. Have I performed to a level that might warrant my pay to be reviewed?
Agreed.
Usually first jobs (out of college) are a take-it or leave-it situation when it comes to compensation.
Hey everyone.
Thanks for all the advice! I appreciate the help and you've given me a lot to contemplate.
To answer a few of the questions that were asked:
- The job is in the DFW area.
- It is in the aviation industry (My degree is in Aerospace Administration and Operations).
- I was technically more than an intern (the company calls it a "Co-Op"), so I have been on-boarded into their system already and have completed all of their training.
Thanks again!
Thanks for all the advice! I appreciate the help and you've given me a lot to contemplate.
To answer a few of the questions that were asked:
- The job is in the DFW area.
- It is in the aviation industry (My degree is in Aerospace Administration and Operations).
- I was technically more than an intern (the company calls it a "Co-Op"), so I have been on-boarded into their system already and have completed all of their training.
Thanks again!
Don't listen to "old school" advice. The job market is so dramatically changed you are shooting your own foot. A lot of old timers are either retired or heading there shortly.
I've never accepted the first offer. You can negotiate within reason. There's always more money on the table than the first offer, that's HR 101.
Which is the real reason women get paid less. They're not arrogant enough to bargain like they're at a car dealers.
I've never accepted the first offer. You can negotiate within reason. There's always more money on the table than the first offer, that's HR 101.
Which is the real reason women get paid less. They're not arrogant enough to bargain like they're at a car dealers.
My wife is a hiring manager for a large corporation. She interviews hundreds/thousands of people a year. Of course, she comes home and tells me how her day went. Let me offer some advice based on what I have learned from her over the years.
1) Fresh out of college, no real work experience, you take what you can get.
1a) Some of these college kids, 22-24 years old, never had a job before, ask for RIDICULOUS salaries. Why do they think they are entitled to such a high salary? Honestly, they are entitled to a salary low in the pay range. They have NO work history. They haven't even scooped ice cream at a ice-cream shop!! And they are expecting 80K to 100K salary, right out of the gate, for a job that typically pays 50K? Kids these days.
2) If you dont have a current job, you need a job. You do not have much room for negotiating a salary. Maybe a bit, but not much.
3) Once you have valid work history, and know the difference between your butt and your elbow, you can start looking for a new job that pays more. Since you already have a job paying the bills, you can be more aggressive in your salary expectations and negotiations.
3a) The best way to increase your salary, is to get a new job. You can get stuck in a rut at your current employer, with smallish 3-5% annual raises.
1) Fresh out of college, no real work experience, you take what you can get.
1a) Some of these college kids, 22-24 years old, never had a job before, ask for RIDICULOUS salaries. Why do they think they are entitled to such a high salary? Honestly, they are entitled to a salary low in the pay range. They have NO work history. They haven't even scooped ice cream at a ice-cream shop!! And they are expecting 80K to 100K salary, right out of the gate, for a job that typically pays 50K? Kids these days.
2) If you dont have a current job, you need a job. You do not have much room for negotiating a salary. Maybe a bit, but not much.
3) Once you have valid work history, and know the difference between your butt and your elbow, you can start looking for a new job that pays more. Since you already have a job paying the bills, you can be more aggressive in your salary expectations and negotiations.
3a) The best way to increase your salary, is to get a new job. You can get stuck in a rut at your current employer, with smallish 3-5% annual raises.
If the money is anywhere near what you can tolerate, work for this company for a year before you start to demand er.... request more money. If you have a good work history and you have the skills they want, that will help your cause. The odds are you will jump around to a few different employers early in your career anyway.
The idea of getting higher pay before you actually have the job can be a tricky one and it probably varies with the skill you have.
My daughter could do it because she is a computer programmer (and a d*mn good one), and she's female, a rarity in the programming world.
If you have an occupation as a burger-flipper, you won't get very far.
The idea of getting higher pay before you actually have the job can be a tricky one and it probably varies with the skill you have.
My daughter could do it because she is a computer programmer (and a d*mn good one), and she's female, a rarity in the programming world.
If you have an occupation as a burger-flipper, you won't get very far.
Originally Posted By: Kruse
If the money is anywhere near what you can tolerate, work for this company for a year before you start todemand er.... request more money. If you have a good work history and you have the skills they want, that will help your cause.
If you have an occupation as a burger-flipper, you won't get very far.
The op is applying at a large corporation with 100K plus employees. They likely have very stringent pay standards. That type of salary negotiation would be normal/expected at a small company. At a huge corporation, not very likely.
If the money is anywhere near what you can tolerate, work for this company for a year before you start to
If you have an occupation as a burger-flipper, you won't get very far.
The op is applying at a large corporation with 100K plus employees. They likely have very stringent pay standards. That type of salary negotiation would be normal/expected at a small company. At a huge corporation, not very likely.
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
The op is applying at a large corporation with 100K plus employees. They likely have very stringent pay standards. That type of salary negotiation would be normal/expected at a small company. At a huge corporation, not very likely.
Isn't that exactly what I posted? I used to work for a company that had 35K employees. They had janitors as well as a CEO that made millions of dollars a year.
The op is applying at a large corporation with 100K plus employees. They likely have very stringent pay standards. That type of salary negotiation would be normal/expected at a small company. At a huge corporation, not very likely.
Isn't that exactly what I posted? I used to work for a company that had 35K employees. They had janitors as well as a CEO that made millions of dollars a year.
Congrats. First jobs are the toughest. That's why being a good, enthusiastic intern is important. My old company hired interns all the time and I'd tell them that.
You said you know the pay scales and the offer is within the scale. Being it's your first real position at the company, chances are good you're going to be starting near the bottom. As much as you feel you're worth more, you're probably not.
If you're good, you're good. I'd take the position and after a year see how things are going. So many things can happen. Better job pops up somewhere else or opportunity to advance internally.
I've always felt things take care of themselves if you let them.
You said you know the pay scales and the offer is within the scale. Being it's your first real position at the company, chances are good you're going to be starting near the bottom. As much as you feel you're worth more, you're probably not.
If you're good, you're good. I'd take the position and after a year see how things are going. So many things can happen. Better job pops up somewhere else or opportunity to advance internally.
I've always felt things take care of themselves if you let them.
Co Ops and Internships are an excellent way to get offered a great position after school is completed.
The key is to treat that Co Op and Internship as if it's a daily job interview.
Even if your boss doesn't see you on a daily basis..... your coworkers will give honest feedback and info when it's time to make a decision to hire.
The key is to treat that Co Op and Internship as if it's a daily job interview.
Even if your boss doesn't see you on a daily basis..... your coworkers will give honest feedback and info when it's time to make a decision to hire.
CONGRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATS!
Now, keep your head up, smile like you are Joker and learn as much as possible.
Start to fund:
-savings/rain day fund
-401k
-Roth
why:? time is one your side... rule of 72/compound interest
Also backup money allows you to go to work as a pleasure, not because you have to.
You will thank me in 40 years.
Oh, a big corporation is usually not that flexible in compensation.
I know 3 cases where the first job was the bridge to a much better/technically challenged/mind workout job after 3mts, 7 mts, 1 year...
Oh, and Congrats!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATS!
Now, keep your head up, smile like you are Joker and learn as much as possible.
Start to fund:
-savings/rain day fund
-401k
-Roth
why:? time is one your side... rule of 72/compound interest
Also backup money allows you to go to work as a pleasure, not because you have to.
You will thank me in 40 years.
Oh, a big corporation is usually not that flexible in compensation.
I know 3 cases where the first job was the bridge to a much better/technically challenged/mind workout job after 3mts, 7 mts, 1 year...
Oh, and Congrats!
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Thank you everyone!
So to follow up, I spoke with the person who extended the offer this morning. I didn't get the increase that I had asked for, but we found middle ground and I was happy to accept the offer. Now on to the packing part... I'm not looking forward to that!
Thanks again!
So to follow up, I spoke with the person who extended the offer this morning. I didn't get the increase that I had asked for, but we found middle ground and I was happy to accept the offer. Now on to the packing part... I'm not looking forward to that!
Thanks again!
Originally Posted By: pandus13
Oh, a big corporation is usually not that flexible in compensation.
And a small company with limited resources would be?
Big companies and government agencies are usually stricter on their pay scales, yes, but they usually have a salary range within each position. For example an IT analyst 1 in my state makes anywhere from $38,000 to $70,000 depending on work experience, training, certifications, etc.
When I worked at the insurance company, adjusters usually had a pay range that the company followed. There is always room for negotiation, but within that range. Like stated before, if they offer you 40,000 and you ask for 60,000 you will be laughed at. If you ask for 45,000 that isn't outside the range of possibility. If the company had no idea who he was, he would have less bargaining power, but it sounds like his co-op experience could help him out. If he is polite and straight forward, the worst they could say is "this is all we can offer you" but it never hurts to ask.
Things are different this day in age, you have to make your own breaks. You can sit in a corner and work as hard as you can but nobody will speak up for you, you have to do it yourself.
Oh, a big corporation is usually not that flexible in compensation.
And a small company with limited resources would be?
Big companies and government agencies are usually stricter on their pay scales, yes, but they usually have a salary range within each position. For example an IT analyst 1 in my state makes anywhere from $38,000 to $70,000 depending on work experience, training, certifications, etc.
When I worked at the insurance company, adjusters usually had a pay range that the company followed. There is always room for negotiation, but within that range. Like stated before, if they offer you 40,000 and you ask for 60,000 you will be laughed at. If you ask for 45,000 that isn't outside the range of possibility. If the company had no idea who he was, he would have less bargaining power, but it sounds like his co-op experience could help him out. If he is polite and straight forward, the worst they could say is "this is all we can offer you" but it never hurts to ask.
Things are different this day in age, you have to make your own breaks. You can sit in a corner and work as hard as you can but nobody will speak up for you, you have to do it yourself.
Originally Posted By: JustN89
Thank you everyone!
So to follow up, I spoke with the person who extended the offer this morning. I didn't get the increase that I had asked for, but we found middle ground and I was happy to accept the offer. Now on to the packing part... I'm not looking forward to that!
Thanks again!
Congrats! I'm glad you found middle ground, this is what I expected would happen. Now work hard, prove yourself, and build an outstanding reputation.
Thank you everyone!
So to follow up, I spoke with the person who extended the offer this morning. I didn't get the increase that I had asked for, but we found middle ground and I was happy to accept the offer. Now on to the packing part... I'm not looking forward to that!
Thanks again!
Congrats! I'm glad you found middle ground, this is what I expected would happen. Now work hard, prove yourself, and build an outstanding reputation.
Congrats.
2 things I learned over the years:
1) You don't get what you deserved, you get what you negotiated.
2) You need to keep your interview skill as good as your work skill, throughout the entire career.
2 things I learned over the years:
1) You don't get what you deserved, you get what you negotiated.
2) You need to keep your interview skill as good as your work skill, throughout the entire career.
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Originally Posted By: bubbatime
3) Once you have valid work history, and know the difference between your butt and your elbow, you can start looking for a new job that pays more. Since you already have a job paying the bills, you can be more aggressive in your salary expectations and negotiations.
3a) The best way to increase your salary, is to get a new job. You can get stuck in a rut at your current employer, with smallish 3-5% annual raises.
Outstanding advice!
3) Once you have valid work history, and know the difference between your butt and your elbow, you can start looking for a new job that pays more. Since you already have a job paying the bills, you can be more aggressive in your salary expectations and negotiations.
3a) The best way to increase your salary, is to get a new job. You can get stuck in a rut at your current employer, with smallish 3-5% annual raises.
Outstanding advice!
If it's in line with other similar position's starting salary, then take it. If not, ask them why it's lower than other similar positions.
Nothing worse than someone fresh out of college with zero work experience asking for a higher salary than the industry standard just because they think they deserve more.
Nothing worse than someone fresh out of college with zero work experience asking for a higher salary than the industry standard just because they think they deserve more.
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