Hi,
I am looking to buy another used Honda Civic.
Are they're advantages to buying a "pre OBD" vs OBD1 vs OBD2A vs OBD2B civic? Is there an OBD setup that i should avoid?
Are the OBD1 OR OBD2A OR OBD2B civics more difficult to get past inspection? more difficult to fix? do any of them cause problems?
Am i overanalyzing this? being overly concerned?
I am NOT interested in building a race car.
Civics that are 91 and prior appeal to me as they are pre OBD and sound simplier. Another 91 civic sounds good as the one i owned was easy to fix -- pre OBD. But i want to make an informed decision. And want to take advantage of the best buying option that i find.
In my home state of Pennsylvania my 91 civic had lots of wiggle room when trying to get by emissions. Meanwhile i know that my mechanic had loads of trouble with newer OBD2 models (an engine light that went off 3 moths ago would create problems when trying to pass inspection).
Thanks very much for reading and for providing lots of great money saving advice -- both today and in the past. Excellent forum.
I want to say that i'm making you guys work really hard for your money but then i'm getting all of this for free, aren't i.
OBD considerations when buying a car
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I'd be more worried about the rust since I assume PA is in the rust belt. I would not be too worried about the OBDII and emissions. Sometimes a part does need to be replaced, but then again don't you like to breath clean air?
thanks Donald
I'm usually a good citizen, i think. but i need confess that extra smoke was something i became irresponsible with when need to get to work.
so when i buy another car i ought get on that doesn't have so much blow by.
Depends on the state. Many states don't do anything with OBD1 vehicles since they can't plug in to monitor anything. Others use a sniffer which could be "worse" than having OBD2 and being plugged in since OBD2 will usually pass if you don't have a CEL on.
As far as vehicles, it wouldn't even enter my radar whether it was OBD1 or OBD2. The OBD1 vehicles likely have a lot less electronics and electrical pieces wired together though and when you're talking about an older vehicle that's not a bad thing, in my opinion.
here's the PA law, sorry it's so muddy:
http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/067/chapter177/chap177toc.html
It looks like all they do is monkey with your EVAP purge valves and stuff for Phila region... but other stuff for Pittsburgh. Looks like a mess, LOL.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Another trouble with Honda of those era is the jungle of vacuum hoses under the hood. Even when new, they were finicky. Imagine the nightmare you will have one they become brittle and have unknown leaks.
- Vikas
I had 2 OBD1 Civics, a '90 wagon and an '89 hatch-both were among the most dependable cars I've ever owned. I'd be surfing CL in the bigger Southern cities and Autotrader & cars.com-you'll find one if you look hard enough.
Hi CChase,
no, not a bad thing. my thought is the simpler, the better. i'm not an electrician (nor am i mechanic for that matter)
thanks for replying
skate
Originally Posted By: cchase
...The OBD1 vehicles likely have a lot less electronics and electrical pieces wired together though and when you're talking about an older vehicle that's not a bad thing, in my opinion.
Hi Vikas and bepperb,
thanks to the both of you for responding. appreciate it
Seriously its 2012 and people are asking this question?
OBD2 has been out for almost 20 years now and its out dated on most modern cars. I'm sure new Civics you can plug into a laptop like everything else.
OBD2 scanners are like $30 these days.
I've thought about going pre-OBDII for a "spare" vehicle. No emissions for NH on pre-'95 (ish, diesel is like 96, and there's a few exceptions). My '04 VW lately has been requiring emissions repairs each year... Last year it was a $500 intake flap, and guess what is throwing trouble codes this year!? I'd hate to deal with continous emissions problems on a lightly driven secondary vehicle.
Only problem is rust on those older vehicles. Well, that and we are talking twenty year old or more vehicles.
Because of the small fleet of non OBDII cars states are phasing out emissions tests (eg tailpipe sniffers) for them because "it doesn't matter". This delightful loophole can really cut costs and aggravation of ownership.
OP wants to be a contrarian and drive one. Nothing like a small EVAP leak to drive you batty, not actually matter, and keep a car off the road. 1990-1995 are a golden few years of decent driveabilty, emissions, underhood simplicity, light weight, good MPG. People still argue about the 1960s and various hot rod engines and minute year-to-year changes on those cars-- whose to say the 1992 civic is not nirvana on four wheels for OP?
Originally Posted By: eljefino
1990-1995 are a golden few years of decent driveabilty, emissions, underhood simplicity, light weight, good MPG.
My understanding is you do not want OBD 2 if you want to modify anything under the hood that can fail smog, otherwise it isn't that big of a deal.
In my experience, OBD-II cars have become less complex in terms of underhood vacuum lines and electrical nightmares. In the OBD-I era, it seems like the emissions equipment was done as an afterthought, and you had stuff "tacked" on to the engine, like various cold start valves, vacuum-controlled EGR, etc. With newer vehicles, it seems like that stuff is better integrated and you have a cleaner layout under the hood. Again, in my experience.
I will always prefer OBD-II to OBD-I, but emissions inspection does vary by state. In North Carolina, all they do is plug into the car; no sniff test. So OBD-I vehicles are exempt and you only pay for a safety inspection each year. If you have OBD-II, you pay an extra 30 bucks for an "emissions inspection" and they plug into your car and if you're hunky-dory, they send you on your way.
CT is 25 years for emissions, OBDI still gets dyno tested. Honestly, OBDII is pretty easy to keep happy when it comes to mods. The Jeep passes the plug-in test just fine (and should pass a sniffer) even with the engine mods, and no, I didn't have to do any tinkering or faking sensor values to get rid of codes.
Hi folks,
Much appreciate all the feedback -- very helpful.
Honda Tech is excellent for the particular niche of 4rth generation, "EFs," -- both D series and B series engines. But folks on there are often wanting to build race cars -- which is not my cup of tea.
So between this forum and the other i'm enabled to make a more educated decision. Not to say that there'll no longer be a possibility of me buying a lemon -- just that i'm reducing that chance of buying a lemon)
Yech. That sounds awful and is why i wish to avoid OBDII. Gimmie good old OBD1 or no OBD at all.
Yeah, probably doesn't hurt for me to be reminded of rust being an issue. I've done some rust removal and body work. Nothing fantastic but darn good enough. If i do it again i WILL invest in a grinder -- absolutely worth it.
What is reputedly wonderful about 4rth genreation civics is that availability of quality used part. And by that i mean "clips" imported from japan. Arguably it's very easy to get a used jdm engine or trans with 80K or less on it. I swapped in a used jdm trans in mine and felt like i was driving a porsche (obviously i've never actually driven a porshce).
I've gotten an estimate from a shop for as little as 280$ labor to swap a "fresh D series engine" into my civic.
A guy at the car wash told me that i could swap it myself without even renting a crane.
"Just throw a rope over a tree limb!"
"Or, those things are so small, you could just get some buddies to help you lift it and drop it in there!!"
I don't believe this guy, at all, but it is consistent with the general thought that 4rth generation (non carbed) civics are easier to work with than other cars.
Originally Posted By: supton
...My '04 VW lately has been requiring emissions repairs each year... Last year it was a $500 intake flap, and guess what is throwing trouble codes this year!?
Originally Posted By: supton
Only problem is rust on those older vehicles. Well, that and we are talking twenty year old or more vehicles.
My only problem with them is the same problem with any used Honda Civic.
Apparently everyone thinks their value is somewhere around 1.5-2x what it actually is.
Hi El Jefino,
I am now going to go out on a limb -- going to venture a comment that is potentially contraversial.
I will say that I'm reminded of Tina Fey's comment during a Saturday Night Live skit about a certain politician being interviewed.
"But i don't know what that means."
Well, thank you very much! That really is wonderfully encouraging on a couple of levels.
First it's confirming much of what i already know about civics.
(Albeit, i might say 88 to 95 were golden years as far as the availability of "non carbed" civics. But we share the same basic idea.)
I myself have moderated a forum for 5 years. And i do appreciate such positive posts after seeing so many meaningless "flame wars."
I was pleased to learn that the IT professional, SirDude.com, has done work for who the BITOG forum. He has been a wonderful help for our forum, also.
Btw, when looking at your who's online window i get totally envious of the web traffic you draw -- the amount of people google sends to this site, SERP = Search Engine Page Ranking.
I mean "envious" almost like in a "covet my neighbor's wife" kind of way.
again, big thanks, El J,
regards
skate
Originally Posted By: eljefino
...Nothing like a small EVAP leak to drive you batty,
Originally Posted By: eljefino
...1990-1995 are a golden few years of decent driveabilty, emissions, underhood simplicity, light weight, good MPG. ...whose to say the 1992 civic is not nirvana on four wheels for OP?
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