Not VW507 certified oil in a VW507 required engine

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Originally Posted By: Tornado Red

Volkswagens are not for everyone. I am personally not interested in any model except those with TDI engines. And I will admit that TDIs are not for everyone, only those who drive enough to save enough on fuel.


Volkswagens are for everyone apparent by the fact that they are the third largest in the world. They are planning to be the world largest by 2018 based on current production figures. The problem is not the TDI but it is the dealerships. If the dealership provides the correct orientation of diesel ownership to the new TDI owner then there would be a lot less misunderstanding in its operation and maintenance. You can go to any dealership of any makes on any given day and see new cars being repaired under warranties. No car is bulletproof in design and certainly not in the hand of an idiot.
 
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Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Volkswagens are for everyone apparent by the fact that they are the third largest in the world. They are planning to be the world largest by 2018 based on current production figures. The problem is not the TDI but it is the dealerships.


That's precisely it. The biggest obstacle to VW accomplishing that goal is its North American dealer network. Many of them seem to embrace the motto of inferior service at a higher price.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Volkswagens are for everyone apparent by the fact that they are the third largest in the world. They are planning to be the world largest by 2018 based on current production figures. The problem is not the TDI but it is the dealerships.


That's precisely it. The biggest obstacle to VW accomplishing that goal is its North American dealer network. Many of them seem to embrace the motto of inferior service at a higher price.
After 1967, when I had a Beetle, a good car, I got another vw, sedan,in the 70'sm engine was [censored], used oil all the time, the dealership could not fix it,,,I think the saga continues, dont know how they keep selling them.
 
It is a known fact VW quality is a joke , and has been for some time why anyone would purchase on is beyond me
 
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Originally Posted By: badnews
It is a known fact VW quality is a joke , and has been for some time why anyone would purchase on is beyond me


I disagree. The cars are well-designed, using pretty good components, and the assembly quality is good. When they arrive at a dealership, they are good cars. But the dealer techs in the US, though not so much in Canada, are not trained to fix even the smallest problems, or to correctly diagnose and troubleshoot the bigger problems.

Yes, if you have a problem with an almost-new car, and you keep returning it to the dealership and they can't fix it, then you might be tempted to blame the manufacturer. Or if the vehicle is out of warranty when you buy it, and it has problems, and after the dealership has charged you $3000 or $5000 for the work it's done, and it still doesn't run properly, then you might be tempted to blame the manufacturer.

But these same cars, built in the same factories but sold in other countries, are not troublesome at all. In fact they rank very highly in quality and have resale values that rank very near the top in most every country. The difference the USA is not with the cars, 90+% of the time.

If owners are too lazy to find a competent independent shop, with mechanics who know what they are doing, then they probably should not own Volkswagens. But, even after they've been warned about the dealerships, if they still keep taking their cars there then there's nothing that can be done for them.
 
Originally Posted By: Tornado Red
Originally Posted By: badnews
It is a known fact VW quality is a joke , and has been for some time why anyone would purchase on is beyond me


I disagree. The cars are well-designed, using pretty good components, and the assembly quality is good. When they arrive at a dealership, they are good cars. But the dealer techs in the US, though not so much in Canada, are not trained to fix even the smallest problems, or to correctly diagnose and troubleshoot the bigger problems.

Yes, if you have a problem with an almost-new car, and you keep returning it to the dealership and they can't fix it, then you might be tempted to blame the manufacturer. Or if the vehicle is out of warranty when you buy it, and it has problems, and after the dealership has charged you $3000 or $5000 for the work it's done, and it still doesn't run properly, then you might be tempted to blame the manufacturer.

But these same cars, built in the same factories but sold in other countries, are not troublesome at all. In fact they rank very highly in quality and have resale values that rank very near the top in most every country. The difference the USA is not with the cars, 90+% of the time.

If owners are too lazy to find a competent independent shop, with mechanics who know what they are doing, then they probably should not own Volkswagens. But, even after they've been warned about the dealerships, if they still keep taking their cars there then there's nothing that can be done for them.


+1, For me it was the service center horror stories which kept me away this time around.
 
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted By: Tornado Red
Originally Posted By: badnews
It is a known fact VW quality is a joke , and has been for some time why anyone would purchase on is beyond me


I disagree. The cars are well-designed, using pretty good components, and the assembly quality is good. When they arrive at a dealership, they are good cars. But the dealer techs in the US, though not so much in Canada, are not trained to fix even the smallest problems, or to correctly diagnose and troubleshoot the bigger problems.

Yes, if you have a problem with an almost-new car, and you keep returning it to the dealership and they can't fix it, then you might be tempted to blame the manufacturer. Or if the vehicle is out of warranty when you buy it, and it has problems, and after the dealership has charged you $3000 or $5000 for the work it's done, and it still doesn't run properly, then you might be tempted to blame the manufacturer.

But these same cars, built in the same factories but sold in other countries, are not troublesome at all. In fact they rank very highly in quality and have resale values that rank very near the top in most every country. The difference the USA is not with the cars, 90+% of the time.

If owners are too lazy to find a competent independent shop, with mechanics who know what they are doing, then they probably should not own Volkswagens. But, even after they've been warned about the dealerships, if they still keep taking their cars there then there's nothing that can be done for them.


+1, For me it was the service center horror stories which kept me away this time around.


Indie shops are the life-blood of VW/Audi maintenance.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Indie shops are the life-blood of VW/Audi maintenance.


The Bentley manual and the indie guy are my best friends, for sure!


+1 here, and I bought the Ross-Tech VCDS so I can purge air from the fuel filter post change.

I've been running 507 Castrol (SLX pro LL03) from the dealer, and it is reasonably priced at just under $8/quart. Some online stores want $12/quart. I haven't found M1 ESP around here yet.
 
VW/Audi needs a new warranty program. Instead of offering a long warranty period administered by inept dealerships, perhaps they should offer an option of a shorter warranty along with a service manual for those who prefer to do their own work. Make it a year or two, so any major, early failures can be fixed. Knock a couple thousand or so off the price. Give me a shop manual, and send me on my way.

Or, they could just address the problem.
wink.gif
 
Bottom line is you cannot simply take it on faith that the owner's manual is correct for your application. In many cases it is correct while in others it may not be. For example the gas VW/audi 2.0 DI FSI engine looks like this when using standard VW certified oils at VW OCIs:

glivalves.jpg


The UOA data shows that run-of-the-mill 502 oils do not work beyond about 5000 miles in the 2.0 FSI in the USA. Those engines are tested in Europe where the burn mode creates less fuel dilution. The USA UOA data shows that here 5000 miles is about the acceptable max (unless nearly all highway miles), yet VW recommends 10k.

The database shows that some non-vw certified oils perform much better in the 2.0 FSI. Even individual cars using top quality 502 oils have shown better results when switching to a non 502 oil: 502/non 502 uoas Not to say all non-certified oils are better. Of course they are not necessarily. But certified just means they are certified, not necessarily better.

Widman has another example more pertinent to diesel applications where VW's recommendations are clearly wrong:

http://www.widman.biz/boletines_informativos/Factory_recommendations.pdf

Sometimes real-world users, who are not influenced by marketing and other factors, have the latest and best information. And with the speed of the internet, this info. can be transferred much more quickly than trying to get problems through the VW USA corporate and political quagmire to the actual engineers (note that it would still have to go through marketing and the VW corporate machine to make it into the owners manual). Examples are the 2.0 FSI, the cummins diesel example, the Audi RS4, etc. The TDI club would be a good place to find more VW TDI specific info. on oil.
 
I believe the point of that article is not severe service vs non-severe service, but hours vs miles.

If someone travels 10k miles at an average speed of 50 mph, that's 200 hours. If the vehicle spends a lot of time idling or traveling slowly in traffic, then it can accumulate 4000 miles in 200 hours.
 
Originally Posted By: Tornado Red
I believe the point of that article is not severe service vs non-severe service, but hours vs miles.

If someone travels 10k miles at an average speed of 50 mph, that's 200 hours. If the vehicle spends a lot of time idling or traveling slowly in traffic, then it can accumulate 4000 miles in 200 hours.


Wrong oil was recommended also (outdated 12 years ago).
 
I might be ignorant...but isnt it only an issue for the DPF if the car is consuming (burning) oil?

I am not really willing to risk warranty, but just saying...
 
Originally Posted By: FowVay

1. Oxidation catalyst: first in line after the turbocharger. It sits atop the DPF in the same unit and is made of platinum and palladium which is somehow vaporized over the aluminum oxide coated substrate.

2. Particulate filter: next in line and in the same housing as the oxidation catalyst. This thing is made of aluminum titanide and is vapor coated also with platinum.

3. Next is the Nitrogen Oxide catalyst: This thing sits down stream of the previous Oxidation/Particulate catalyst. I don't know what it's made of but it does house two O2 sensors so I suspect it's similar to what is found on a normal gas engine.

4. Finally there is a H2S (sulfur) catalytic converter: this thing sits all the way in the back of the exhaust system to reduce the effects of thermal aging. It's purpose is to completely convert the H2S that is generated in the deNOX cycle into SO2.


Excellent description FowVay, has anyone heard of any tuning shops that are up to speed with taking all this stuff off? I like the golf diesel and hope VW brings a golf diesel hybrid here but this emissions stuff is a bit scary.
 
There may be tuning shops that will modify the engine control software, allowing you to remove any or all pollution control devices without triggering any serious faults.

But... they will not be advertising this service, nor will any of us do them a favor by mentioning them in this or any other public forum.
 
Originally Posted By: Fumes
What about M1 0W40 in a TDI BEW? I know it not VW spec'd but wouldn't work?

In Saskatchewan, there should be at least four or five other readily-available oils that will work just as well. From Esso, PetroCan, Shell, for starters. UFA used to sell a good full-synthetic diesel-rated oil under their own label. And there must be others.
 
Originally Posted By: Tornado Red
In Saskatchewan, there should be at least four or five other readily-available oils that will work just as well. From Esso, PetroCan, Shell, for starters. UFA used to sell a good full-synthetic diesel-rated oil under their own label. And there must be others.


Looking at VW's list, about the only one readily available in Saskatchewan would be Castrol Edge. Certainly, there are others that would probably work. However, if one wanted an approved lubricant, that would be about it. Of course, the dealer is always an [expensive] option.
 
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