badnews, it's S9000.
http://www.schaefferoil.com/supreme_9000.html
S and T are not close on the keyboard....
http://www.schaefferoil.com/supreme_9000.html
S and T are not close on the keyboard....
Not VW507 certified oil in a VW507 required engine
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Originally Posted By: BobFout
badnews, it's S9000.
http://www.schaefferoil.com/supreme_9000.html
S and T are not close on the keyboard....
Thanks Bob
badnews, it's S9000.
http://www.schaefferoil.com/supreme_9000.html
S and T are not close on the keyboard....
Thanks Bob
there seems to be a lot of discussion about VW oils. When did VW get so complicated. Oh the good days of straight 30 and 2 qts in my old VW. the world has gotten more stupid as time goes by. It would appear that either VW has messed up or these so called oil home owned oil engineers with a degree in [censored] have ruined their own cars with creative mental magic and overnight have become experts in oil. well boys and girls, Ive have done the same thing in years past, don't doooooooooo that. Read good data, and make an informed decision and when all else fails, read ur freaking OWNERS MANUAL, well its a thought anyway, happy motoring and may ur pistons stay in the correct cylinders.
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
Oh the good days of straight 30 and 2 qts in my old VW. the world has gotten more stupid as time goes by.
It sounds like you're referring to the old air-cooled engines -- how often did those engines need to be rebuilt? About every 30k or 40k miles?
The current and recent generations of VW engines should be good for 300k-500k miles if properly cared for. That does not necessarily mean using the exact oil specification... but it should be pretty close. If the owners manual says to use a low-SAPS 5w30 to provide good protection to both the engine and emissions system, then a low-SAPS 5w40 works and might even be better.
Speaking of stupid, there are a lot of owners who pay no attention at all to the manufacturer's recommendations. They use a 10w30 conventional oil instead of a 5w30 or 5w40 synthetic; they use gas-engine-only oils in diesel engines; I've seen folks brag about using a 5w50 when they have no business using an oil like that, for any OC interval.
Oh the good days of straight 30 and 2 qts in my old VW. the world has gotten more stupid as time goes by.
It sounds like you're referring to the old air-cooled engines -- how often did those engines need to be rebuilt? About every 30k or 40k miles?
The current and recent generations of VW engines should be good for 300k-500k miles if properly cared for. That does not necessarily mean using the exact oil specification... but it should be pretty close. If the owners manual says to use a low-SAPS 5w30 to provide good protection to both the engine and emissions system, then a low-SAPS 5w40 works and might even be better.
Speaking of stupid, there are a lot of owners who pay no attention at all to the manufacturer's recommendations. They use a 10w30 conventional oil instead of a 5w30 or 5w40 synthetic; they use gas-engine-only oils in diesel engines; I've seen folks brag about using a 5w50 when they have no business using an oil like that, for any OC interval.
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
there seems to be a lot of discussion about VW oils. When did VW get so complicated. Oh the good days of straight 30 and 2 qts in my old VW. the world has gotten more stupid as time goes by. It would appear that either VW has messed up or these so called oil home owned oil engineers with a degree in [censored] have ruined their own cars with creative mental magic and overnight have become experts in oil. well boys and girls, Ive have done the same thing in years past, don't doooooooooo that. Read good data, and make an informed decision and when all else fails, read ur freaking OWNERS MANUAL, well its a thought anyway, happy motoring and may ur pistons stay in the correct cylinders.
When did engines get so complicated?
Today's Euro oils are just as easy to pick as today's API oils. You pick an appropriate spec and grade. Done!
there seems to be a lot of discussion about VW oils. When did VW get so complicated. Oh the good days of straight 30 and 2 qts in my old VW. the world has gotten more stupid as time goes by. It would appear that either VW has messed up or these so called oil home owned oil engineers with a degree in [censored] have ruined their own cars with creative mental magic and overnight have become experts in oil. well boys and girls, Ive have done the same thing in years past, don't doooooooooo that. Read good data, and make an informed decision and when all else fails, read ur freaking OWNERS MANUAL, well its a thought anyway, happy motoring and may ur pistons stay in the correct cylinders.
When did engines get so complicated?
Today's Euro oils are just as easy to pick as today's API oils. You pick an appropriate spec and grade. Done!
Just run what they tell u 2, Rotella or M1 truck and diesel would fit the diesel application I would assume, but the assume can get one in trouble i guess, so if the dealership sells the oil, buy it or order it off the net.
Pesca, there are 3 completely separate issues:
1) Warranty - obviously they want you to use 507 oil
2) Engine: VW has some rather stringent engine protection issues which I'd guess 507 oil barely meets because of
3) Emission issues: they demand S
507 oil is based on ACEA C3 specs, plus some extra VW tests. C3 is designed for diesels with DPF/catalyst or gas engines with "3-way catalysts". Because of the emission issues, compromises were made as far as detergent/antacid additives, and ZDDP concentration is close to the minimum that will prevent excessive wear.
My personal experience with this type of oil is our BMW X5 35d. It has an oil change indicator. Based on that, my 2nd OCI was 11600 miles. With a 7 qt pan and 1 qt makeup, TBN was 1.5, TAN (total acid #) grossly exceeded TBN at 4.83. My research indicates oil is done when TAN>TBN.
I therefore obtained a supply of Mobil Delvac 1 LE 5W30 from Europe. This is an ACEA E6/E4/E7/MB228.51 truck oil, with TBN 12.6 (the Castrol SLX Professional OE was 6.8). Ash is greater at 1.0%, but S and P levels are the same.
I'm going to use it in the BMW and also in a 2009 Jetta TDI.
I'm not recommending this (and it isn't cost-effective) but it is my solution to the shortcomings (compromised alkalinity) of the BMW and presumably VW versions of ACEA C3 oils.
Charlie
1) Warranty - obviously they want you to use 507 oil
2) Engine: VW has some rather stringent engine protection issues which I'd guess 507 oil barely meets because of
3) Emission issues: they demand S
507 oil is based on ACEA C3 specs, plus some extra VW tests. C3 is designed for diesels with DPF/catalyst or gas engines with "3-way catalysts". Because of the emission issues, compromises were made as far as detergent/antacid additives, and ZDDP concentration is close to the minimum that will prevent excessive wear.
My personal experience with this type of oil is our BMW X5 35d. It has an oil change indicator. Based on that, my 2nd OCI was 11600 miles. With a 7 qt pan and 1 qt makeup, TBN was 1.5, TAN (total acid #) grossly exceeded TBN at 4.83. My research indicates oil is done when TAN>TBN.
I therefore obtained a supply of Mobil Delvac 1 LE 5W30 from Europe. This is an ACEA E6/E4/E7/MB228.51 truck oil, with TBN 12.6 (the Castrol SLX Professional OE was 6.8). Ash is greater at 1.0%, but S and P levels are the same.
I'm going to use it in the BMW and also in a 2009 Jetta TDI.
I'm not recommending this (and it isn't cost-effective) but it is my solution to the shortcomings (compromised alkalinity) of the BMW and presumably VW versions of ACEA C3 oils.
Charlie
I always like m37charlie's answers.
I use similar logic to conclude that if I had such a VW engine I would use:
Amsoil DEO 5W-40
Sulfated ash is 1.0%, P is slightly higher than 900 - but this is a (low) risk I would take. The bugger wouldn't be the VW warranty for me, but rather Amsoil doesn't recommend the oil for VW507 or C3, so no Amsoil warranty either.
I use similar logic to conclude that if I had such a VW engine I would use:
Amsoil DEO 5W-40
Sulfated ash is 1.0%, P is slightly higher than 900 - but this is a (low) risk I would take. The bugger wouldn't be the VW warranty for me, but rather Amsoil doesn't recommend the oil for VW507 or C3, so no Amsoil warranty either.
If Rotella 5w40 and M1 5w40 are made for diesels, why would they not work on a vw, like a vw diesel is to delicate and dainty for truck diesel oil. I use either one on a gas 318 ancient v8 , so whats the deal. Ok. it was a rant. the Germans know best, Im not a German engineer, all engines are different and the little vw diesel seems to be to much trouble to me.
Courier Driver, please read my post. The engine is not "too dainty" for the oil. I opinionate that the the oil you mention would protect the engine just fine. However, it will increase the rate of deterioration of the emission system i.e. catalyst and DPF.
What kind of mileage do you get in your 318?
What kind of mileage does a Jetta TDI get?
I guess that's one reason why we go to "too much trouble"
Charlie
What kind of mileage do you get in your 318?
What kind of mileage does a Jetta TDI get?
I guess that's one reason why we go to "too much trouble"
Charlie
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
If Rotella 5w40 and M1 5w40 are made for diesels, why would they not work on a vw, like a vw diesel is to delicate and dainty for truck diesel oil. I use either one on a gas 318 ancient v8 , so whats the deal. Ok. it was a rant. the Germans know best, Im not a German engineer, all engines are different and the little vw diesel seems to be to much trouble to me.
M1 5w40 and Rotella T6 5w40 are both fine for TDI engines, and probably for the current CR (common-rail) model. It is the DPF (diesel particulate filter) that may require an oil with lower percentages of some additives. During the warranty period, one should use the specified oil; after that it is up to the owner. His decision may depend on how long he plans to keep his TDI -- and whether a healthy functional DPF is essential for driveability.
If Rotella 5w40 and M1 5w40 are made for diesels, why would they not work on a vw, like a vw diesel is to delicate and dainty for truck diesel oil. I use either one on a gas 318 ancient v8 , so whats the deal. Ok. it was a rant. the Germans know best, Im not a German engineer, all engines are different and the little vw diesel seems to be to much trouble to me.
M1 5w40 and Rotella T6 5w40 are both fine for TDI engines, and probably for the current CR (common-rail) model. It is the DPF (diesel particulate filter) that may require an oil with lower percentages of some additives. During the warranty period, one should use the specified oil; after that it is up to the owner. His decision may depend on how long he plans to keep his TDI -- and whether a healthy functional DPF is essential for driveability.
I use my van for hauling freight up to 3000 lbs so mileage is only 16mpg, I use it for making aliving so there is a difference for my use. Mileage is important, but the nature of my business is hauling and really not a pleasure car . Vw is a good product, but way to much trouble for my lifestyle.
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
I use my van for hauling freight up to 3000 lbs so mileage is only 16mpg, I use it for making aliving so there is a difference for my use. Mileage is important, but the nature of my business is hauling and really not a pleasure car . Vw is a good product, but way to much trouble for my lifestyle.
When I need to haul something big or heavy, I hook up a 4'x8' utility trailer to my Golf TDI. I cannot haul 3000 pounds, but I have hauled over 2000 pounds plus what I could carry inside with the seats folded down. I don't have a roof rack, or else I could carry more up on top.
I use my van for hauling freight up to 3000 lbs so mileage is only 16mpg, I use it for making aliving so there is a difference for my use. Mileage is important, but the nature of my business is hauling and really not a pleasure car . Vw is a good product, but way to much trouble for my lifestyle.
When I need to haul something big or heavy, I hook up a 4'x8' utility trailer to my Golf TDI. I cannot haul 3000 pounds, but I have hauled over 2000 pounds plus what I could carry inside with the seats folded down. I don't have a roof rack, or else I could carry more up on top.
Originally Posted By: Tornado Red
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
I use my van for hauling freight up to 3000 lbs so mileage is only 16mpg, I use it for making aliving so there is a difference for my use. Mileage is important, but the nature of my business is hauling and really not a pleasure car . Vw is a good product, but way to much trouble for my lifestyle.
When I need to haul something big or heavy, I hook up a 4'x8' utility trailer to my Golf TDI. I cannot haul 3000 pounds, but I have hauled over 2000 pounds plus what I could carry inside with the seats folded down. I don't have a roof rack, or else I could carry more up on top.
I have to haul all my stuff in a van, mostly auto plant parts, nothing outside of van. max if i have to is 3300 pounds. sometimes hauling stuff 1600 miles,,wish I brakes that last and rotors forever.
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
I use my van for hauling freight up to 3000 lbs so mileage is only 16mpg, I use it for making aliving so there is a difference for my use. Mileage is important, but the nature of my business is hauling and really not a pleasure car . Vw is a good product, but way to much trouble for my lifestyle.
When I need to haul something big or heavy, I hook up a 4'x8' utility trailer to my Golf TDI. I cannot haul 3000 pounds, but I have hauled over 2000 pounds plus what I could carry inside with the seats folded down. I don't have a roof rack, or else I could carry more up on top.
I have to haul all my stuff in a van, mostly auto plant parts, nothing outside of van. max if i have to is 3300 pounds. sometimes hauling stuff 1600 miles,,wish I brakes that last and rotors forever.
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Why is there a comparison being made of a modern light-duty passenger diesel and an older medium-duty cargo gasoline engine? Mangos and watermelons.
guess ur rite, I use the diesel oil in my van because it does well. VW's are a different breed of engine, still seems they are to much trouble on the oil issue.
Why is there a comparison being made of a modern light-duty passenger diesel and an older medium-duty cargo gasoline engine? Mangos and watermelons.
guess ur rite, I use the diesel oil in my van because it does well. VW's are a different breed of engine, still seems they are to much trouble on the oil issue.
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
Courier Driver, please read my post. The engine is not "too dainty" for the oil. I opinionate that the the oil you mention would protect the engine just fine. However, it will increase the rate of deterioration of the emission system i.e. catalyst and DPF.
What kind of mileage do you get in your 318?
What kind of mileage does a Jetta TDI get?
I guess that's one reason why we go to "too much trouble"
Charlie
Does the owners manual say that there will be deterioration of the ES and the catalyst and the DPF?
Courier Driver, please read my post. The engine is not "too dainty" for the oil. I opinionate that the the oil you mention would protect the engine just fine. However, it will increase the rate of deterioration of the emission system i.e. catalyst and DPF.
What kind of mileage do you get in your 318?
What kind of mileage does a Jetta TDI get?
I guess that's one reason why we go to "too much trouble"
Charlie
Does the owners manual say that there will be deterioration of the ES and the catalyst and the DPF?
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
Does the owners manual say that there will be deterioration of the ES and the catalyst and the DPF?
Yes. And since you seem to walk the owner's manual line pretty hard, that should tell you everything you need to know.
Pesca, back to your original question there is much to do with emissions system protection in the 507.00 formulation, and at nearly 10k to replace it, with good reason. So far all the UOAs I have seen from commonrail TDIs have shown basically the same, relatively normal wear metals (unlike the cam-wearing PDs or ALH VEs) and the Castrol SLX Longlife 3 oil seems to do its job well.
Were it my car, I would probably spring for Mobil 1 5w40 ESP Formula M but IMO the jury is still out on the necessity of a 5w40 oil in these engines.
Does the owners manual say that there will be deterioration of the ES and the catalyst and the DPF?
Yes. And since you seem to walk the owner's manual line pretty hard, that should tell you everything you need to know.
Pesca, back to your original question there is much to do with emissions system protection in the 507.00 formulation, and at nearly 10k to replace it, with good reason. So far all the UOAs I have seen from commonrail TDIs have shown basically the same, relatively normal wear metals (unlike the cam-wearing PDs or ALH VEs) and the Castrol SLX Longlife 3 oil seems to do its job well.
Were it my car, I would probably spring for Mobil 1 5w40 ESP Formula M but IMO the jury is still out on the necessity of a 5w40 oil in these engines.
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Why is there a comparison being made of a modern light-duty passenger diesel and an older medium-duty cargo gasoline engine? Mangos and watermelons.
guess ur rite, I use the diesel oil in my van because it does well. VW's are a different breed of engine, still seems they are to much trouble on the oil issue.
I'm still not seeing where the problem is with VW, or other Euro, engine oil specifications.
Euro engines have had their own specs for over 10 years. (though most are closely related to ACEA specs).
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Why is there a comparison being made of a modern light-duty passenger diesel and an older medium-duty cargo gasoline engine? Mangos and watermelons.
guess ur rite, I use the diesel oil in my van because it does well. VW's are a different breed of engine, still seems they are to much trouble on the oil issue.
I'm still not seeing where the problem is with VW, or other Euro, engine oil specifications.
Euro engines have had their own specs for over 10 years. (though most are closely related to ACEA specs).
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