non-true synthetics...a waste?

[jek]

o.k. guys go easy on me as i'm in the learning stages.i just saw a thread about all of the store grp III synthetic oils out there not really being true synthetics like amsoil,rl,rp,motul. so my very simple q's is should i just stick to a really good conv. like pyb? or do i really get added benefits at a higher cost w/ going the typical grp III. thanks guys...

ps...i currently run the qsud because of the 3.99/aap sale, but maybe i should just stick to the cheapest conv. oil especially since i oci @ 5k. thoughts on this???

 

[sciphi]

I see 2 new/newer vehicles in your signature. If you're changing at 5k miles for warranty, if you can get away with a conventional, do it!

QSUD 5w-30 is good for 8000 miles in my turbocharged Cruze. The engine in that car can beat up a semi-syn oil in 5000 miles or less, so getting 8k miles out of a synthetic is pretty good IMO.

 

[Astro14]

There are two things that really matter: performance and price.

Leave the rest to the tribologists and engineers.

I've had great UOAs with M1 and Pennzoil Ultra - and I buy the oil I use on sale. You can spend more for the "boutique" oils, but unless they're used in a specific application in which they're superior, you're just throwing away your $$...IMHO, your cars don't fit into that high-stress/performance application.

Your choices look good to me. $3.99 is a nice price on a good oil.

 

[volk06]

A 5k or less OCI, syn oil is usually a waste of extra money. Anything over 5K, you might see a return on the investment of using full syn. There are some instances where full syn might have advantages, like turbos. Many of todays full syn are group III but they may have some PAO (QSUD) or maybe a small about of esters. Mobil 1 uses over 16 different base oils!

PYB = 15.74/5qt jug at walmart
15.74/5000 = $.003148/mi
QSUD = 20.54/5qt jug at walmart.

20.54/5000= $.004108/mi
20.54/7500= $.0027386/mi

This also does not factor in the savings of an oil filter for the extra 2.5k, for instance if you switched from 5k to 7.5k OCI, in 15k you will have used 10qts/2 filters compared to 15qts/3 filters.

10qts* 2(20.54) + 2 x $5 filter = $51.08 in 15k
15qts* 3(15.74) + 3 x $5 filter = $62.22 in 15k

So the difference between the two over a years time is $11.

 

[CATERHAM]

jek, for someone new your motor oil choose seems pretty informed.
Synthetic is largely a marketing term when it comes to motor oil and GP III oils often hold a distinct advantage over GP II and sometimes GP IV formulations.
For example the TGMO 0W-20 is assumed to be largely GP III based and none of the higher priced formulators you've mentioned have anything to compete with it.

If you judge an oil based on it's performance spec's and not so much it's base oil chemistry, that's how you'll realize the best value.

 

[WMSmotorhead]

Conventional oils get a bad rap... most standard stock cars will run just fine with them.. just at the shorter 5K OCI.

It's usually someone with a Supercharged highly modified autobahn designed euro car that scoffs at the concept of conventional oil.

I live in "the rust belt"... they salt roads here. Your car will rust out in 10-15 years.. for a normal everyday driver, that means somewhere between 100K and 200K miles, you're car will start falling apart with corrosion.

Conventional oil protects pretty darn well, and on the correct interval will keep an engine spotlessly clean inside... I saw it myself on my work car, where I'm using conventional 5w-20 Federated brand... (made by WPP).

 

[Cooker]

IMO cost is not a significant issue when discussing this topic. Saving $5-$10 on an oil change to run a conventional over synthetic is not enough to worry about saving in my opinion for the average person who might do three, maybe four, oil changes per year.

However most of the conventional oils do very well at 5k intervals and there is not necessarily a need to spend the extra $5-$10 either.

Whatever provides you the most peace of mind is the best choice

 

[WMSmotorhead]

Originally Posted By: Cooker


Whatever provides you the most peace of mind is the best choice

Agreed. With bargain closeout shopping, I have been getting stuff for 2.50 or less/qt. So I have both Conventional and Syn Blend at that price. At that price, I keep the OCI at 5K, and feed the "Nicer Cars" the blend, and keep the conventional in the work car... where it's worked so well for so long.

 

[CATERHAM]

It is often false economy to run a conventional (dino) oil today.
For example, Toyota Canada claims that the fuel saved in using their 0W-20 over a 5W-20 more than makes up for the price difference and that's over only a 5,000 mile OCI.

 

[WMSmotorhead]

I'd like to see the numbers. I've fed my work car 5w-20, 5w-30, conventional, syn, blend... fuel economy for MY car hinges much more on fuel grade than the motor oil.

 

[tig1]

I use M1 0-20 and my Duratechs perform very well on it. The price is excellant, my engines at 100K are clean as new through the oil fill hole, I get 10K OCIs with out a problem, this oil holds up very well in extreme high temps, and provides outstanding cold start oil flow, and I do this for less money than you spend on dino.

 

[jek]

thx everybody for your replys...very interesting reading.

 

[CATERHAM]

rcy posted the Toyota link a year or so ago. The fuel savings IIRC was something like $8 over 5,000 miles. It's not a lot but it begs the question why bother with a dino if there's no total cost savings to be had not to mention all the other lubrication benefits in running a synthetic oil.
The truth is, it's virtually impossible to reliably measure a 1% or so fuel economy difference one self but Toyota didn't develop the ultra high VI (216), high AW additive oil for nothing. The difference is obviously real.

And yes you'll get close to 2% fuel economy loss with E90 gas vs ethanol free gas. Even a 2% difference is hard to measure since there are so many other factors that make a much bigger difference including ambient temp's, RH and the big one, how gently you drive.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
rcy posted the Toyota link a year or so ago. The fuel savings IIRC was something like $8 over 5,000 miles. It's not a lot but it begs the question why bother with a dino if there's no total cost savings to be had not to mention all the other lubrication benefits in running a synthetic oil.


To play this from a different angle. How can you verify this is not Toyota marketing for you to buy their branded oil?

 

[CATERHAM]

I'm as skeptical as the next guy, but their fuel economy claims are quite modest considering how different their 0W-20 is from other 0W-20s not to mention 5W-20s.
I know pricing for the oil varys among Toyota dealers in the States but in Canada it is set at $5.77/L Canada wide which is a very good price for synthetic oil in Canada. A name brand dino can cost that much up here. So there's certainly no gouging going on.

 

[WMSmotorhead]

I have seen very little personal evidence of oil's effect on fuel economy... but that's just me.

Stop calling it Dino... Mineral Oil comes from the earth's core... not dead reptiles...

 

[cutter]

Mineral oil is a by-product of distilling petroleum, of which derives from crude oil. Crude oil is one of the fossil fuels. Fossil fuels are primarily composed of once living organisms, mostly plantlife but also animals from millions of years ago.

 

[fdcg27]

If you keep your eyes open for the rebates, you can use Grp III syns for no more than sales tax and the cost of a stamp.
Some syns are not suited to very long drains, like Synpower and G-Oil, but provide exceptionally low wear metals in 5K or so UOAs, for what that's worth.
What I'm trying to say is that when you can use something a little better than a Grp II for less money with typical promotions, why wouldn't you?

 

[zerosoma]

If there were no sales, rebates, warranty claims, or any other stuff to sway me to buy oil, at this point and time I would continually always buy Valvoline Max Life Conventional.

Our vehicles run smoother, quieter, and gain horsepower when we use it compared with other oils in its price range.

It is semi-synthetic but a dude with a Buick Regal on here went almost 8k on Max Life Conv awhile back and it still had usable additive left in it.


Quaker State has a great synthetic oil for its price. It is the best deal going for the Group III synthetics at an every day price (wal mart). I've run it with no problems.

I wouldn't say that they are a "waste" per se, as they are much cheaper than RP, Redline, Motul, etc. They are a solid oil at a solid price. They (generally) perform within their price range.

 

[dailydriver]

What does TGMO stand for?

Is it a corporate brand name for the Toy 0W-20??