The squishiness is probably due to the swiss cheese compound of the Multi-cell tube that Bridgestone uses on the top half the tread.
Nokian Announces New R5 Studless Winter Tire
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Probably. It is kind of strange. They are very fast to turn, but then there is squishiness which kind of negatively surprises you. Though, considering I have track suspension, it is expected that suspension is a bit much for tire like that. VC7 was more stable, but still had a feeling that the tire was not matching car capabilities. That is why I was aiming for X-ICE. Probably 225/45 would be better, but I like narrow tires in winter.
i am not talking about brand, and answer to your question, no it's not ideal for our winters if you dont want a death whish. Lets make it simple to you, there are different winter tires for north and "south" Europe. That's why they make standardized test. And second, how would a winter tire performing good on wet since the main purpose are ice and snow ? ofcourse science move forward and they are getting better wet performance but are a light year behind all season tires like cross climate 2 in rain. Just look at X ice and Hakkapeliitta wet performance rating, and these are made for snow and ice.
100% correct
They aren't "snow" tires, they are "winter" tires, and it's wet in the winter in a lot of places. Most of my winter miles are on brine: -5C and wet. Then there's black ice, a foot of snow, which then turns to slush, then the cold front comes through and freezes it over again, then it's slush, then pooled water, then dries out for a week and speeds are high. Honestly with "full" winter tires (e.g. not "performance" category) I'm often better off before they plow and salt the roads here. Recently salted snow packs up like cookie dough and overwhelms any tire. Those have been some of my scariest moments, more than ice.
For my next set of winter tires I am paying close attention to wet traction test results. There's been lots of interesting stuff in this thread, even though it's supposed to be about the R5
Thanks.So far I've had: Michelin XMS-100, Michelin Arctic Alpin, Dunlop Wintersport M3, Hakkapeliitta RSi, Bridgestone WS60, Dunlop Wintersport 3D, Hakkapeliitta R2.
In the family: Michelin Pilot Alpin, Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2, Pirelli Snowsport 210, Hakkapeliitta R2 SUV and Hakkapeliitta R3 SUV.
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We may be dealing with imagination or experience limit.
Bjornviken looks more Swedish than Finnish to me but there are Swedish speaking Finns. Tove Jansson being the most famous one.
I suspect Finland has quite uniform climate, very similar winter everywhere. Sweden has more different winters I would expect. High mountains and quite a distance Norh- South. Winter in Malmö is different than winter in Kiruna, I suspect.
One needs to take the ferry or drive to Central Europe or further down the south to experience different winter.
USA and Canada are a little different. Especially USA.
Pacific Coast is prime example, California probably the most. A few hours drive and one can experience all 4 seasons. Skiing in Tahoe, beach going in Malibu. 2-3km in elevation difference makes a lot difference in winter.
Other parts of the USA are quite challenging too. In Massachusetts one may have -20C in one day and a few days later it may be 20C, ok maybe it feels like 20C but it is 12C. And 50cm of snow was dropped in the mean time.
Tires that are good in such wide conditions are much more needed than one trick ponies from severe winter areas like Alaska, some more central Canadian provinces.
Krzyś
Bjornviken looks more Swedish than Finnish to me but there are Swedish speaking Finns. Tove Jansson being the most famous one.
I suspect Finland has quite uniform climate, very similar winter everywhere. Sweden has more different winters I would expect. High mountains and quite a distance Norh- South. Winter in Malmö is different than winter in Kiruna, I suspect.
One needs to take the ferry or drive to Central Europe or further down the south to experience different winter.
USA and Canada are a little different. Especially USA.
Pacific Coast is prime example, California probably the most. A few hours drive and one can experience all 4 seasons. Skiing in Tahoe, beach going in Malibu. 2-3km in elevation difference makes a lot difference in winter.
Other parts of the USA are quite challenging too. In Massachusetts one may have -20C in one day and a few days later it may be 20C, ok maybe it feels like 20C but it is 12C. And 50cm of snow was dropped in the mean time.
Tires that are good in such wide conditions are much more needed than one trick ponies from severe winter areas like Alaska, some more central Canadian provinces.
Krzyś
Is the Goodyear UltraGrip Ice 2 available in Canada? It sounds perfect for you. In all the tests of studless tires I have read over the last few years it is consistently and significantly the best performer on wet roads and in hydroplaning resistance. Not as good in the wet as a so called "Central European" tire like the Continental TS870, but better on ice than the TS870. It occupies a position between tires like the R5, VC7, etc and tires like the TS870, Blizzak LM005, etc. But in exchange for that class leading wet traction it lags behind the R5, VC7, and SNOW in performance on ice.
You guys in Scandinavia don’t have wet roads?
Bcs. I have been in Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Finland during all seasons, and there is definitely all kind of weather.
of course we have, haven't said that we don't have... what i was trying to explain was the difference between winter tires made for northern Europe and central Europe. So those what we use here the "real" or "full" winter tires are bad at rain, thats including all brands. In 2023 there will be more regulations about winter tires for northern Europe and will erase many "Winter tires" from our roads.
In your country are Nokian winter tires more expensive than Michelin or Continental winter tires?..... In 2023 there will be more regulations about winter tires for northern Europe and will erase many "Winter tires" from our roads.
yes, they are a little
Your argument was what constitutes a "real winter tire", not regional market needs for tires. Some manufacturers recognize that different parts of Europe have different needs for tires and will market a tire for those needs.
But they are still winter tires, and they still work in snow and ice. The Xice-Snow and Hakkapelliita work better in snow and ice.
That doesn’t make any sense. In the end, point is not how fast you will go forward, but how fast you will stop. More aggressive winter tires with more evacuation capabilities will have more limited performance when braking or handling. For long time it is known that key is compound not depth per se. In Central Europe best tire for a looong time in deep snow was Sava Eskimo S3. Deep tread blocks, super soft, big evacuation channels. I used them on my delivery vehicles as they were really good bang for a buck. But, they were lacking in braking in snow and ice. Contact patch was not as big as other tires. And dry and wet? Oh boy.of course we have, haven't said that we don't have... what i was trying to explain was the difference between winter tires made for northern Europe and central Europe. So those what we use here the "real" or "full" winter tires are bad at rain, thats including all brands. In 2023 there will be more regulations about winter tires for northern Europe and will erase many "Winter tires" from our roads.
Also, the key to braking in snow is how many sipes there are. The snow gets stuck in them and it is actually that trapped snow that creates traction or stopping power.
I think getting into the weeds about what constitutes "best" on this forum is great, it really brings up subjects that no one thinks of. But lets be real. The tires being discussed are all premium winter/snow tires, they will all be far better than any all season. Now one thing that is not noted on performance tests is daily driving experience and that will differ for everyone and every vehicle. I have always noticed Blizzaks to be more squishy or have more sway in them than many other tires, where as the Nokians don't have as much. I haven't driven on Michelin snow tires, at least within the last 5yrs so I have no experience there. How the tires react to different dry road surfaces is a major factor as well. I have had snow tiers (Nitto SN2) that were absolutely amazing on snow and ice covered surfaces, but dry roads with grooves cut into them would cause the car to track with the grooves. On partially covered surfaces, this felt very sketchy since I didn't know if it was following the grooves or slipping on snow/ice.
Oddly enough, before putting Nokian Hakka 9's on our old Fusion we had Goodyear Ultra-Grip Ice tires. Those Goodyears were the absolute worst winter tire I have ever had. Better than an all season? Yes, but barely better than the summer set of General RT43's. Putting the Nokians on made a massive difference. I got the Goodyears because of the ratings, but that didn't match my personal experience.
I don't think you can't go wrong between Michelin, Bridgestone, Continental or Nokian. I chose Nokian because of previous experiences but wouldn't have any issues trying out the others. My choices were between the Michelin and the Nokian R5 SUV (similar prices), but because of supply issues I got the Nokians.
Oddly enough, before putting Nokian Hakka 9's on our old Fusion we had Goodyear Ultra-Grip Ice tires. Those Goodyears were the absolute worst winter tire I have ever had. Better than an all season? Yes, but barely better than the summer set of General RT43's. Putting the Nokians on made a massive difference. I got the Goodyears because of the ratings, but that didn't match my personal experience.
I don't think you can't go wrong between Michelin, Bridgestone, Continental or Nokian. I chose Nokian because of previous experiences but wouldn't have any issues trying out the others. My choices were between the Michelin and the Nokian R5 SUV (similar prices), but because of supply issues I got the Nokians.
