Nokian Announces New R5 Studless Winter Tire

It is my understanding that the things that make a tire good for ice traction, make it poor for wet traction. Can't violate the laws of physics!
Other tire manufacturers do that much better.
Michelin, Continental and Bridgestone have very similar ice performance, but I didn’t have to keep twice the distance than usual when going behind someone in wet.
Dry performance was also abysmal, and I could balance two other sets of snow tires what is needed just to balance one of their tires.
They were very good in snow and ice. Thing is, other manufacturers are also very good.

We have tires like this in Europe. Debica, Kleber, Tigar etc. They make them with strict emphasis on ice and snow. But they have poor performance elsewhere. However, they also cost 50-60% of what Michelin, Continental, Good Year, Bridgestone or Pirelli cost.
That is why I said, they are Liqui Moly of tire world.
 
I guess we'll see how the R5's do on our Ascent. I've been impressed with the Hakka 9's previously and have driven on a few other snow tires. So far in the dry they have been great. They are pretty responsive and don't have much sway when I made quick back and forth at 60mph or so like I have experienced with other snow tires. That's even with a 65 series side wall, not a lower profile one. I'm excited for the snow to see how they do and I really like playing around in the snow with my other cars!

I don't doubt that there are advantages with some of the others mentioned. But I went with a brand that I have experience with. For some reason I just have never been a Michelin guy. I know they make good tires, but I haven't found one that fit my needs for one reason or another. Like I said, I did consider the Michelin X-Ice Snow, but they were 3 weeks further out.
 
I guess we'll see how the R5's do on our Ascent. I've been impressed with the Hakka 9's previously and have driven on a few other snow tires. So far in the dry they have been great. They are pretty responsive and don't have much sway when I made quick back and forth at 60mph or so like I have experienced with other snow tires. That's even with a 65 series side wall, not a lower profile one. I'm excited for the snow to see how they do and I really like playing around in the snow with my other cars!

I don't doubt that there are advantages with some of the others mentioned. But I went with a brand that I have experience with. For some reason I just have never been a Michelin guy. I know they make good tires, but I haven't found one that fit my needs for one reason or another. Like I said, I did consider the Michelin X-Ice Snow, but they were 3 weeks further out.
I couldn’t find X-Ice snow in 205/50 R17. And based on response from tire supplier here, if they didn’t see them by now, they won’t at all in that size this winter.
Went WS90. Would prefer Vc7, but it would end up being some $200 difference.
 
Other tire manufacturers do that much better.
Michelin, Continental and Bridgestone have very similar ice performance, but I didn’t have to keep twice the distance than usual when going behind someone in wet.
Dry performance was also abysmal, and I could balance two other sets of snow tires what is needed just to balance one of their tires.
They were very good in snow and ice. Thing is, other manufacturers are also very good.

We have tires like this in Europe. Debica, Kleber, Tigar etc. They make them with strict emphasis on ice and snow. But they have poor performance elsewhere. However, they also cost 50-60% of what Michelin, Continental, Good Year, Bridgestone or Pirelli cost.
That is why I said, they are Liqui Moly of tire world.
Not to be a A hole,But All Real winter tires have poor rating in rain, When i mean real i dont speak for the allseason tires that is illegal in northern Europe. EU standardized test that includes all tires and all brands most have this
 

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Not to be a A hole,But All Real winter tires have poor rating in rain, When i mean real i dont speak for the allseason tires that is illegal in northern Europe. EU standardized test that includes all tires and all brands most have this
Compared to summer tires or good all season? Yes.
But compared to other winter tires, there are differences. Blizzak, X-Ice, VikingContact, Winter Contact, Ultra Grip etc. are all real winter tires.
 
Is Blizzak LM005 "real winter" tire?


View attachment 126455

Krzyś

PS Studless tires for sure have worse wet performance but they are much better on ice.
Yes leagal since it have 3 peak mountain snowflake, but would i use it.. no, absolutely not. Thats like compering Michelin Cross climate 2 vs Michelin x ice, both have the 3 peak mountain snowflake where Michelin x ice are the "real winter tire" when it comes to "real winters" (if i had to choose between them)😁 But would use crossclimate 2 over x-ice in Germanys winter where it rain more instead of snowing since wet performance is absolutely a light year ahead of x ice. Thats my point
 
Compared to summer tires or good all season? Yes.
But compared to other winter tires, there are differences. Blizzak, X-Ice, VikingContact, Winter Contact, Ultra Grip etc. are all real winter tires.
Another novelty that you have to keep an eye on is the ice grip label. It initially only applies to tires for passenger cars and may only be used on winter tires that have passed an ISO standardized test for Nordic winter conditions. The logo next to the 3 peak mountain snowflake


 

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Another novelty that you have to keep an eye on is the ice grip label. It initially only applies to tires for passenger cars and may only be used on winter tires that have passed an ISO standardized test for Nordic winter conditions. The logo next to the 3 peak mountain snowflake
Yeah, they are not any better.
I mean, point is, are they good winter tire? Yes. Are they good at that price? No.
 
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Yes leagal since it have 3 peak mountain snowflake, but would i use it.. no, absolutely not. Thats like compering Michelin Cross climate 2 vs Michelin x ice, both have the 3 peak mountain snowflake where Michelin x ice are the "real winter tire" when it comes to "real winters" (if i had to choose between them)😁 But would use crossclimate 2 over x-ice in Germanys winter where it rain more instead of snowing since wet performance is absolutely a light year ahead of x ice. Thats my point

Since you are sticking with Michelin. Where would you put Pilot Alpin in relation to Cross Climate 2 and X-Ice?

Krzyś

PS Germany is big country, for Europe, and with different geography. I suspect "real winter tire" is preferable in Alps too.

PS2 Is Pilot Alpin real winter tire? It is in the same class like LM005.
 
Since you are sticking with Michelin. Where would you put Pilot Alpin in relation to Cross Climate 2 and X-Ice?

Krzyś

PS Germany is big country, for Europe, and with different geography. I suspect "real winter tire" is preferable in Alps too.

PS2 Is Pilot Alpin real winter tire? It is in the same class like LM005.
Many parts of Central Europe, especially Alps and Southern Alps have much worse snow storms and conditions than Nordic countries. Difference is that winter doesn’t stick there as long as in Nordic countries and once summer hits, true summer tire is best option.
 
Since you are sticking with Michelin. Where would you put Pilot Alpin in relation to Cross Climate 2 and X-Ice?

Krzyś

PS Germany is big country, for Europe, and with different geography. I suspect "real winter tire" is preferable in Alps too.

PS2 Is Pilot Alpin real winter tire? It is in the same class like LM005.
simple, check out the "specs" standards on winter tires, if they lack the ratings of 3 peak mountain snowflake and ice grip label. They are not fitted for extreme winter condition no matter brand. What info i got from these Pilot Alpin are there label for m+s and lack ice grip label. And in alps they use chains more than winter tires since your not allowed to drive with studded tires i suspect?
 
Ice traction symbol is EU invention, at least for now.
Tires in the USA may not have it.

Krzyś

PS I have never driven in Alps in any conditions. I have no clue what is allowed or required.
 
simple, check out the "specs" standards on winter tires, if they lack the ratings of 3 peak mountain snowflake and ice grip label. They are not fitted for extreme winter condition no matter brand. What info i got from these Pilot Alpin are there label for m+s and lack ice grip label. And in alps they use chains more than winter tires since your not allowed to drive with studded tires i suspect?
No they don’t use chains. Not nearly as often.
Tires like Alpin are harder to make than tires like R5, Blizzak WS90, VC7. They have to do a lot of stuff really good. You need to be able to negotiate Karavanke in Alps, and then go 120mph in Germany on autobanhn. Best snow tires I had, period, were Continental Winter Contact TS860, fallowed by Good Tear Ultra Grip 6 long time ago (for that time UG6 was benchmark).
Those tires also have to do very well in ice, specifically black ice for which Bavaria is known. Do you want to ski in Garmish? Sure, first negotiate black ice then snow storm that dumped 2ft. Then go back when its dry and hit 130mph.
 
Since you are sticking with Michelin. Where would you put Pilot Alpin in relation to Cross Climate 2 and X-Ice?

Krzyś

PS Germany is big country, for Europe, and with different geography. I suspect "real winter tire" is preferable in Alps too.

PS2 Is Pilot Alpin real winter tire? It is in the same class like LM005.

Pilot Alpin is a real winter tire, like the Blizzak LM005.

Tyre Review Youtube channel does have videos comparing the CC2 to the Xice Snow, but nothing with the Pilot Alpin.

But I would like the Pilot Alpin would be better in deep heavy snow than the CC2, since it has the smaller tread blocks to dig through the snow.
 
Not to be a A hole,But All Real winter tires have poor rating in rain, When i mean real i dont speak for the allseason tires that is illegal in northern Europe. EU standardized test that includes all tires and all brands most have this
So, the Nokian Snowproof P isn't a real winter tire then

1668706336198.png


Or SnowProof
1668706437551.png


or the old Nokian WR A4 (which the tread pattern is the basis of the US/Canada WR G4)
1668706726490.jpg
 

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Ice traction symbol is EU invention, at least for now.
Tires in the USA may not have it.

Krzyś

PS I have never driven in Alps in any conditions. I have no clue what is allowed or required.
You really, really want good snow tires here for two reasons:
1 Austria has very tricky winters. Best skiing in Europe is there.
2. Austrian police doesn’t know humor, not they have any flexibility. Austria is benchmark when it comes to automobile winter requirements.

1D7C2B95-EDD3-4365-9882-907AC8D5FF0F.jpeg
 
Interesting that both Michelin and Bridgestone, with the Xice-Snow and WS90, they went the route of "Less (siping) is more.
Yeah. And it is interesting that WS90 has pretty much the same design as WS80, but less siping. I know that lateral ice handling was an issue on WS80 (I had that same issue on DM-V2), and that is why I think WS90 was introduced soon after as a replacement.
But even with less siping, first 100 miles, I think they are more squishy than VC7, and I had VC7 in 205/55R16, while these are 205/50 R17, same car. They seem also bit louder. However, they are eager to turn, even compared to DriveGuards in 225/45 R17 I took off to put these, and DriveGuards were RFT. But WS90 seems to turn faster.
 
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