I have been a DIY maintenance guy on my vehicles and parents vehicles for about 20 years now. I just took a first gander under the hood of my new Honda Pilot to top off the washer fluid and I was absolutely amazed at how difficult the oil & tranny dipsticks were to get at as well as the fill holes. I am almost 6ft tall and will need a stool to be able to properly get at these vital areas without creating a huge mess! Is this what we have to look forward to on newer vehicles.
New Vehicles = byebye DIY maintenance?
- Thread starter 05Blazer
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Depends on the vehicle/model/engine choice.
But I agree that most vehicles are getting harder to work on. And some will require more expensive maintenance down the road when compared to other models and older models.
When I bought my latest vehicle (2011 model) I bought it trying to keep it as simple as possible. Both in current maintenance (ie being able to see/touch/get to all items) and future (down the road).
Originally Posted By: dwcopple
as long as there is a drain plug, there is DIY maintenance.
As long as you are allowed to. There are many in charge trying to kill off DIY oil changes since it harms the world.
Bill
But I agree that most vehicles are getting harder to work on. And some will require more expensive maintenance down the road when compared to other models and older models.
When I bought my latest vehicle (2011 model) I bought it trying to keep it as simple as possible. Both in current maintenance (ie being able to see/touch/get to all items) and future (down the road).
Originally Posted By: dwcopple
as long as there is a drain plug, there is DIY maintenance.
As long as you are allowed to. There are many in charge trying to kill off DIY oil changes since it harms the world.
Bill
Not necessarily....but yes, I think the idea is smaller engines, and hiding everything "on top" the engine.....to make it a big hassle to "get to" efficiently....in hopes that the consumer will simply take the car back to the dealer to be serviced 
In fact, a buddy of mine is going through Auto Tech/ASE school now at the local college....and yes, he's told me how some vehicles spec different "tools" to work on certain things....long are the days of a set of wrenches and pliers to work on the cars.....
Even making it hard for the indy mechanic to work on the vehicles....
But the professor didn't want to scare them away, he basically said pick a speciality, don't try and be a "jack of all trades" mechanic, and every pay check, buy another tool; and by the time the students graduate from the school (2 or 3 year program I believe....) they will have a good mess of tools to accomplish their goals.
But even after that I think he says you have to have 2 years of "on job experience" before you can get the certificate....so basically, after he takes the courses, he still has to fly under the wings of another mechanic, before he can get his ASE cert....
In fact, a buddy of mine is going through Auto Tech/ASE school now at the local college....and yes, he's told me how some vehicles spec different "tools" to work on certain things....long are the days of a set of wrenches and pliers to work on the cars.....
Even making it hard for the indy mechanic to work on the vehicles....
But the professor didn't want to scare them away, he basically said pick a speciality, don't try and be a "jack of all trades" mechanic, and every pay check, buy another tool; and by the time the students graduate from the school (2 or 3 year program I believe....) they will have a good mess of tools to accomplish their goals.
But even after that I think he says you have to have 2 years of "on job experience" before you can get the certificate....so basically, after he takes the courses, he still has to fly under the wings of another mechanic, before he can get his ASE cert....
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Kestas
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New cars are marketed to new car buyers. Realize that the average buyer of new cars isn't worried about maintenance. Their vehicle is covered by warranty, and sometimes includes free maintenance, and issues like trans fluid are pushed beyond the warranty period.
DIY maintenance is typically a concern for the seecondary, used car market. Automakers aren't concerned about those folk, such as us BITOGers. One exception is that these issues are showing up in low, used car prices. Sometimes people are shocked when they find how far the value of their vehicle has dropped after the warranty period, and wonder why.
DIY maintenance is typically a concern for the seecondary, used car market. Automakers aren't concerned about those folk, such as us BITOGers. One exception is that these issues are showing up in low, used car prices. Sometimes people are shocked when they find how far the value of their vehicle has dropped after the warranty period, and wonder why.
Originally Posted By: ahoier
Not necessarily....but yes, I think the idea is smaller engines, and hiding everything "on top" the engine.....to make it a big hassle to "get to" efficiently....in hopes that the consumer will simply take the car back to the dealer to be serviced
Indeed, this is not an accident. Of course it shows the increasing contempt for the owner of the car if they DIY maintenance. When you consider how bad the economy is more and more folks are trying their hand at basic car maintenance today the trend is very bad for that.
Not necessarily....but yes, I think the idea is smaller engines, and hiding everything "on top" the engine.....to make it a big hassle to "get to" efficiently....in hopes that the consumer will simply take the car back to the dealer to be serviced
Indeed, this is not an accident. Of course it shows the increasing contempt for the owner of the car if they DIY maintenance. When you consider how bad the economy is more and more folks are trying their hand at basic car maintenance today the trend is very bad for that.
Originally Posted By: 05Blazer
I was absolutely amazed at how difficult the oil & tranny dipsticks were to get at
Be thankful your car at least has these dipsticks. Many new cars don't.
I was absolutely amazed at how difficult the oil & tranny dipsticks were to get at
Be thankful your car at least has these dipsticks. Many new cars don't.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: 05Blazer
I was absolutely amazed at how difficult the oil & tranny dipsticks were to get at
Be thankful your car at least has these dipsticks. Many new cars don't.
At first I didnt like that my 135 only had an electric dipstick, but I kind of like it as I can check it any time. Ill bet it has a warning too, so I cant go too low.
Manual still definitely has its pros too.
Originally Posted By: 05Blazer
I was absolutely amazed at how difficult the oil & tranny dipsticks were to get at
Be thankful your car at least has these dipsticks. Many new cars don't.
At first I didnt like that my 135 only had an electric dipstick, but I kind of like it as I can check it any time. Ill bet it has a warning too, so I cant go too low.
Manual still definitely has its pros too.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Manual still definitely has its pros too.
Yeah, just in case a sensor goes bonkers. In addition, having a dipstick tube makes it possible to extract oil from the top.
Manual still definitely has its pros too.
Yeah, just in case a sensor goes bonkers. In addition, having a dipstick tube makes it possible to extract oil from the top.
I agree, I had to buy a $70 tool to reset tire pressure sensors after rotating tires on a new Chevy (my daughter s)
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Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Manual still definitely has its pros too.
Yeah, just in case a sensor goes bonkers. In addition, having a dipstick tube makes it possible to extract oil from the top.
The tried an true old dip stick can't be beat. Why reinvent the wheel ..UNLESS you want to make the consumer pay more money for it.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Manual still definitely has its pros too.
Yeah, just in case a sensor goes bonkers. In addition, having a dipstick tube makes it possible to extract oil from the top.
The tried an true old dip stick can't be beat. Why reinvent the wheel ..UNLESS you want to make the consumer pay more money for it.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: 05Blazer
I was absolutely amazed at how difficult the oil & tranny dipsticks were to get at
Be thankful your car at least has these dipsticks. Many new cars don't.
New BMWs do not have engine or trany dipsicks.
This is not new in some cases. MY 1995 525i does not have a trany dipstick but has an engine dipstick.
Originally Posted By: 05Blazer
I was absolutely amazed at how difficult the oil & tranny dipsticks were to get at
Be thankful your car at least has these dipsticks. Many new cars don't.
New BMWs do not have engine or trany dipsicks.
This is not new in some cases. MY 1995 525i does not have a trany dipstick but has an engine dipstick.
This is the EXACT reason why I bought one of these years ago:
www.ezcarlift.com .
Right now, my 330ci is on it getting his 10 year old under carriage cleaned up. I can't imagine not having it; I use it on everything we drive excepting the trucks.
The manufacturers may be trying like the devil to get you into their lair for service but with one of these there won't be many jobs you can't tackle. Got mine shortly after buying my Bimmer in 2002, after finding out the fine level of service most BMW dealers give.......
www.ezcarlift.com .
Right now, my 330ci is on it getting his 10 year old under carriage cleaned up. I can't imagine not having it; I use it on everything we drive excepting the trucks.
The manufacturers may be trying like the devil to get you into their lair for service but with one of these there won't be many jobs you can't tackle. Got mine shortly after buying my Bimmer in 2002, after finding out the fine level of service most BMW dealers give.......
I just bought a 2011 Ford F-150 with a 5.0 liter V-8. It's a fantastic truck but it has something new: dipstubs. The dipstub for the engine oil is located on the edge of the valve cover next to a bolt. I'm 6 ft. tall but I need a step stool to reach it.
The dipstub for the transmission is located on the side of the trans next to the pan flange. You check it by crawling under the truck and removing the dipstub with a wrench. Oh, and welder's gloves - it's within inches of one of the Cats.
The dipstub for the transmission is located on the side of the trans next to the pan flange. You check it by crawling under the truck and removing the dipstub with a wrench. Oh, and welder's gloves - it's within inches of one of the Cats.
The actual maintenance requirements are less and less on many new cars. No re-packing wheel bearings, not a grease zerk to be found, one or maybe two accessory drive belts and those are very robust serpentine deals with automatic tensioners that last a really long time. Coil on plug ignition eliminates plug wires all together and iridium plugs as original equipment last a really really long time. Lots of electric power steering, so one less fluid system to maintain. Brake fluid is about the only fluid that doesn't have an amazing service life now. Really, the only maintenance task that one would have to perform more than once or twice a year is the oil change (my grease gun gathers dust these days). Some fuel filters aren't meant to be periodically replaced. Some vehicles require one to jump through some extra hoops to change the brake fluid, and that bites.
I dunno, overall I would say that it's not so much byebye DIY maintenance as it is a massive reduction overall in the frequency that any maintenance is required. The maintenance that is required may be more difficult, or require a couple special tools, but DIYers will adapt and overcome.
Repairs, on the other hand....
I dunno, overall I would say that it's not so much byebye DIY maintenance as it is a massive reduction overall in the frequency that any maintenance is required. The maintenance that is required may be more difficult, or require a couple special tools, but DIYers will adapt and overcome.
Repairs, on the other hand....
I think this really, really depends on make/model.
On the newer vehicles I've dealt with, I haven't had any problems that could be considered specific to newer vehicles. My household's Honda, Mazda, and Subaru (all from within the last 5 years) have/had easily accessible service points (fluid fill holes, oil dipsticks, drain plugs, filters) and are fairly easy to get around. My '07 Civic was about as easy a vehicle to get up on 4 jack stands as you could hope for. All three vehicles also have relatively affordable access to the official factory repair manual (either in book form or online) to boot.
Lots of stuff is computer controlled, which could become a problem down the line. But as previous posters have said much of that represents DIY work that is no longer needed (e.g. plug wires, ignition timing, etc.). I guess my verdict is that on the new vehicles we've had, anything that falls under typical DIY maintenance has been easy enough, although it's possible that some repairs down the line will require professional intervention for at least part of the job.
I get the impression that some more expensive cars and luxury makes are a different story though. I'm not a fan of engines that don't come with dipsticks, especially from companies like BMW.
On the newer vehicles I've dealt with, I haven't had any problems that could be considered specific to newer vehicles. My household's Honda, Mazda, and Subaru (all from within the last 5 years) have/had easily accessible service points (fluid fill holes, oil dipsticks, drain plugs, filters) and are fairly easy to get around. My '07 Civic was about as easy a vehicle to get up on 4 jack stands as you could hope for. All three vehicles also have relatively affordable access to the official factory repair manual (either in book form or online) to boot.
Lots of stuff is computer controlled, which could become a problem down the line. But as previous posters have said much of that represents DIY work that is no longer needed (e.g. plug wires, ignition timing, etc.). I guess my verdict is that on the new vehicles we've had, anything that falls under typical DIY maintenance has been easy enough, although it's possible that some repairs down the line will require professional intervention for at least part of the job.
I get the impression that some more expensive cars and luxury makes are a different story though. I'm not a fan of engines that don't come with dipsticks, especially from companies like BMW.
I looked at the engine bay on a Lexus IS250 and saw that everything was covered in black plastic. The only thing visible without removing any panels was the oil filler cap.
If this was my car all of this would be gone from day 1 of vehicle purchase.
And I heard about the BMWs that don't have oil dipsticks. I wouldn't mind that as long as there is an OLM and some type of idiot light for when the oil level gets too low. This is assuming these sensors will outlast the car.
If this was my car all of this would be gone from day 1 of vehicle purchase.
And I heard about the BMWs that don't have oil dipsticks. I wouldn't mind that as long as there is an OLM and some type of idiot light for when the oil level gets too low. This is assuming these sensors will outlast the car.
Originally Posted By: semaj281
I looked at the engine bay on a Lexus IS250 and saw that everything was covered in black plastic. The only thing visible without removing any panels was the oil filler cap.
If this was my car all of this would be gone from day 1 of vehicle purchase.
I recently needed to purchase some Lexus style clips for molding on an RX300 hatch. I had to walk through the waiting area. Reminded me of some sort of luxury resort or country club. The parts person wore a tie and was in a small room. You could not see any parts. They were on the other side of a closed door. I imagine some of these people having the car serviced are like the owner of the RX300 I service. She did not open the hood the 1st 6 years of ownership. It took a minute of patiently waiting for her to figure out what latch to pull to open the hood when I replaced her battery.
I looked at the engine bay on a Lexus IS250 and saw that everything was covered in black plastic. The only thing visible without removing any panels was the oil filler cap.
If this was my car all of this would be gone from day 1 of vehicle purchase.
I recently needed to purchase some Lexus style clips for molding on an RX300 hatch. I had to walk through the waiting area. Reminded me of some sort of luxury resort or country club. The parts person wore a tie and was in a small room. You could not see any parts. They were on the other side of a closed door. I imagine some of these people having the car serviced are like the owner of the RX300 I service. She did not open the hood the 1st 6 years of ownership. It took a minute of patiently waiting for her to figure out what latch to pull to open the hood when I replaced her battery.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: 05Blazer
I was absolutely amazed at how difficult the oil & tranny dipsticks were to get at
Be thankful your car at least has these dipsticks. Many new cars don't.
+1 to this.
I wouldn't say that my Camry having a "sealed" transmission is one reason I traded it off, but not being able to check fluid level and condition of fluid sure wasn't a reason pulling at me to keep the car. You also couldn't do a simple brake fluid exchange on that Camry...it required a Toyota diagnostic machine to purge the lines.
Both of our current family vehicles allow me to:
1) Change oil without measuring cups or guess work.
2) Check transmission fluid and exchange it without messy transmission pans to deal with.
3) Exchange brake fluid with a 10mm wrench.
They've kept the maintenance points very easy with dipsticks where appropriate and drain plugs so you don't have to crack open gaskets.
The likely reason the check points are so hard to access on your Pilot is the relationship between the engine and the sheetmetal. The Pilot is a car-based SUV, so the engine sits relatively low in the chassis. You get benefits from that like weight distribution and lower center of gravity, but it's also lower in the engine bay requiring you to reach over sheetmetal. What likely makes that more difficult with the Pilot is the large squared-off styling on the front end. Our MDX (very similar platform) offers relatively easy access, but the styling is a bit lower and a bit softer, so you don't have the high and straight body lines to reach over.
Originally Posted By: 05Blazer
I was absolutely amazed at how difficult the oil & tranny dipsticks were to get at
Be thankful your car at least has these dipsticks. Many new cars don't.
+1 to this.
I wouldn't say that my Camry having a "sealed" transmission is one reason I traded it off, but not being able to check fluid level and condition of fluid sure wasn't a reason pulling at me to keep the car. You also couldn't do a simple brake fluid exchange on that Camry...it required a Toyota diagnostic machine to purge the lines.
Both of our current family vehicles allow me to:
1) Change oil without measuring cups or guess work.
2) Check transmission fluid and exchange it without messy transmission pans to deal with.
3) Exchange brake fluid with a 10mm wrench.
They've kept the maintenance points very easy with dipsticks where appropriate and drain plugs so you don't have to crack open gaskets.
The likely reason the check points are so hard to access on your Pilot is the relationship between the engine and the sheetmetal. The Pilot is a car-based SUV, so the engine sits relatively low in the chassis. You get benefits from that like weight distribution and lower center of gravity, but it's also lower in the engine bay requiring you to reach over sheetmetal. What likely makes that more difficult with the Pilot is the large squared-off styling on the front end. Our MDX (very similar platform) offers relatively easy access, but the styling is a bit lower and a bit softer, so you don't have the high and straight body lines to reach over.
Originally Posted By: Corvette Owner
I agree, I had to buy a $70 tool to reset tire pressure sensors after rotating tires on a new Chevy (my daughter s)
You probably didn't need to buy a tool. There are alternative methods for resetting TPMS with GM cars and probably others, too. Check the owners manual, or repy to me with the year/make/model and I'll look it up for you.
But - the tool is neat and easy to use.
I agree, I had to buy a $70 tool to reset tire pressure sensors after rotating tires on a new Chevy (my daughter s)
You probably didn't need to buy a tool. There are alternative methods for resetting TPMS with GM cars and probably others, too. Check the owners manual, or repy to me with the year/make/model and I'll look it up for you.
But - the tool is neat and easy to use.
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