Toyota developed their new Tundra in the US for our market and it doesn't seem to lack in any way compared to the domestic competition. Supposedly there will be heavy duty models and diesels coming; a dually 1 ton Toyota? GM, Ford and and Daimler/Chrysler will be watching this vehicle VERY carefully!
NEW Toyota Tundra - 381hp 401lbs of tq
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The truck is here and now the real voting for Truck of the Year begins. Buyers are the only voters allowed. Toyota is on their third strike. It must be a culture thing for Toyota to have a tough time turning design over to their US partners. We saw it with Nissan. When they came to the US they would not even allow the use of their name in the new enterprise. They called it Datsun. Toyota may have some of the same problems and that's why the big truck stumbled a bit. I think that's all over now, though. It's here.
I don't want to see peak horsepower and torque I want to see the numbers at low rpms. Who is going to be screaming their pickup to 5000+rpm? Not me.
Right. it looks as if GM has lost their way too. My 1990 GMC 5.7 with its old school, iron lump puts out 320 lbs-ft at 2400 rpm. Nice usable power, not big numbers to print in glossy sales brochures.
I'm a happy guy when my truck can deliver near peak torque at 65 mph in top gear.
Ed
P.S. I'm also a happy guy because the intake manifold gaskets don't leak and and the pistons don't slap.
I'm a happy guy when my truck can deliver near peak torque at 65 mph in top gear.
Ed
P.S. I'm also a happy guy because the intake manifold gaskets don't leak and and the pistons don't slap.
Note: Before I continue, this is not a GM bashing comment.
With the 6 speed auto, that 5.7L V8 will stay in the beefier part of the torque curve. You won't get the full 401 but its better than a Chevy 6.0L with the 380 @ 4300 and a four speed.
Imagine with me if you will:
Tundra: 1st gear, shifts into 2nd at around 2700, rpms drop to 2000
Chevy: 1st gear, shifts into 2nd at 2700, rpms drop to less than 1500. The revs drop way out of the torque band.
Read the edmunds article about the Cummins in the dodge. That 48RE 4 speed auto is the reason why it got last place in acceleration, towing and passing while towing. That torque monster was never in the sweet spot of the torque band.
With the 6 speed auto, that 5.7L V8 will stay in the beefier part of the torque curve. You won't get the full 401 but its better than a Chevy 6.0L with the 380 @ 4300 and a four speed.
Imagine with me if you will:
Tundra: 1st gear, shifts into 2nd at around 2700, rpms drop to 2000
Chevy: 1st gear, shifts into 2nd at 2700, rpms drop to less than 1500. The revs drop way out of the torque band.
Read the edmunds article about the Cummins in the dodge. That 48RE 4 speed auto is the reason why it got last place in acceleration, towing and passing while towing. That torque monster was never in the sweet spot of the torque band.
Exactly. I tow with an older Tundra, 315lbs at 3400 rpm with a 5 speed auto. I can romp on a Ford 5.4L which if I recall has 350lbs at 2500 rpm with a 4spd auto. Granted the Tundra has a shorter final drive and weighs less but the transmission and the VVTi also help keep the engine closer to it's sweet spot so you can more effectively use the power you've got. I average 12 mpg at 65-70 pulling close to 5,000 lbs. HD Ford and Chevy owners seem to average between 10-12 under similar conditions.
Sometimes pure numbers don't tell the whole story, you have to dig a little deeper.
That said, I have no intention of buying a newer Tundra. When I need to step up from what I have, the only thing that makes sense to me is a diesel.
Sometimes pure numbers don't tell the whole story, you have to dig a little deeper.
That said, I have no intention of buying a newer Tundra. When I need to step up from what I have, the only thing that makes sense to me is a diesel.
I forgot to say that if I lock out OD, engine spins 3000 rpm at 65 mph, 400 rpm short of the torque peak.
I've also had the opportunity to drive behind both the Ford 5.4l and the Chevy 4.8l at work and the Ford trumps the Chevy hands down for town driving, while the Chevy trumps the Ford at higher speeds. I suspect the larger Chevy engines wouldn't be much different given their power peaks.
I've also had the opportunity to drive behind both the Ford 5.4l and the Chevy 4.8l at work and the Ford trumps the Chevy hands down for town driving, while the Chevy trumps the Ford at higher speeds. I suspect the larger Chevy engines wouldn't be much different given their power peaks.
holy #@$%!, it's the fastest Toyota right now. No kidding.
actually i think the new V6 camry is faster, but it is certainly up there
GM's trucks have a tow/haul mode that changes the shift points to compensate for that.
I'm not so sure about Toyota taking over the world.
First, Toyota is aiming this appliance squarely at some of the best developed, most durable and most reliable vehicles GM and Ford build.
Second, there is absolutely a Ford vs Chevy thing in trucks, with a little room for Dodge. Big Japanese trucks? Can't see it.
Third, both GM and Ford have a reostat that controls pick-em-up production. It goes from a bunch to a whole big bunch. GM and Ford can out produce and underprice Toyota in this segment, and they will do so to prevent Toyota from getting a foothold. Remeber the highly-touted Nissan Titan? How many have been sold?
First, Toyota is aiming this appliance squarely at some of the best developed, most durable and most reliable vehicles GM and Ford build.
Second, there is absolutely a Ford vs Chevy thing in trucks, with a little room for Dodge. Big Japanese trucks? Can't see it.
Third, both GM and Ford have a reostat that controls pick-em-up production. It goes from a bunch to a whole big bunch. GM and Ford can out produce and underprice Toyota in this segment, and they will do so to prevent Toyota from getting a foothold. Remeber the highly-touted Nissan Titan? How many have been sold?
gedcruise, Most Toyota buyers are not payment shoper's. Incentives, payment and total cost is not as important to most of Toyota's customer base. So price is not that big of a sticking point niether is total production capacity at this point. Most of the Tundra buyers are previous Toyota owners. It will take time to do conquest purchaser's pursuit. The truck segment is the most loyal segment in the auto industry!!!!This new Tundra is new from the ground up in so many ways it is really is a completly new beast! On average I would say that every Toyota model is $3000-$5000 more then it's competitor with a few exceptions. It think that Trucks are closer though then the car and mini-van segments in terms of priceing.
I would not call any truck Toyota produces an appliance as they usualy have plenty of personality and style. Their car's are a different story.
I would not call any truck Toyota produces an appliance as they usualy have plenty of personality and style. Their car's are a different story.
My Dad and one of his brothers just got back from the North American Auto SHow in Detroit. I could not get a babysitter so I was grounded. I was quickly looking through the Tundra material a few highlights.
90% of the 401 foot lbs of torgue are available below 2400RPM's.
The 5.7 L V8 models come with a 10.5 inch ring gear third member. THe 4.7L V8 models will retain the 9.5 inch third member.
The 5.7L V8 models have a tow rateing of 10,800 lbs.!!
The 5.7 comes with a 6 speed automatic that has tow/Hual mode that changes the shift points.
It comes prewired for a brake controller.
18 inch wheels standard 21 inch optional.
Even the regular cab model has about 2 feet of space behind the seats when they are in their most rearward position.
They have three configurations not counting bed length. The reg cab, double cab wich is a 4 Doorand then they have a CrewMax wich is a huge 4 door with 4 full size doors.
Sorry I only had about 60 sec. to look at the material as Dad had not read it yet!
90% of the 401 foot lbs of torgue are available below 2400RPM's.
The 5.7 L V8 models come with a 10.5 inch ring gear third member. THe 4.7L V8 models will retain the 9.5 inch third member.
The 5.7L V8 models have a tow rateing of 10,800 lbs.!!
The 5.7 comes with a 6 speed automatic that has tow/Hual mode that changes the shift points.
It comes prewired for a brake controller.
18 inch wheels standard 21 inch optional.
Even the regular cab model has about 2 feet of space behind the seats when they are in their most rearward position.
They have three configurations not counting bed length. The reg cab, double cab wich is a 4 Doorand then they have a CrewMax wich is a huge 4 door with 4 full size doors.
Sorry I only had about 60 sec. to look at the material as Dad had not read it yet!
There won't be a Toyota on the road that can take advantage of the 10,800lb tow rating. The reason is that the cargo capacity will be overloaded long before you get to the max tow rating.
For example,a fifth wheel trailer typically has about 20% of the trailers weight as pin weight. Take an 8000lb fifth wheel (2800lbs UNDER the tow rating)and it will have about 1600lbs of pin weight. Add that too all the #@$%! you take on a trip and the Toyota is gonna be way overloaded on GVWR.
A 10,000lb boat will have about 1000lbs of tongue weight,again,we run out of GVWR quickly.
The ONLY way you'll be able to take advantage of the tow ratig is with a reg cab P/U that doesn't have any options so the base weight of the truck is kept as low as possible.We all know how many of those kind of trucks will be sold.
This isn't a bash on Toyotas either,every 1/2 ton series truck runs into the same issue with GVWR.
If Toyota had a higher GVWR to enable you to take advantage of the tow rating,I'd be the first in line to buy one.
JB, I think you are generally correct, although I used the term "appliance" advisedly, since that is my take on most Toyota products.
However, you correctly note that Toyota is going for the premium end of the market. I would like to see them build some oil burners, which are the premium part of the Ford/GM lines. At the end of the day, though, how large a market can Toyota really expect for this beast? I suspect that Toyota has invested in a large amount of production capacity for the Tundra which will never be used.
Kind of like the Titan.
However, you correctly note that Toyota is going for the premium end of the market. I would like to see them build some oil burners, which are the premium part of the Ford/GM lines. At the end of the day, though, how large a market can Toyota really expect for this beast? I suspect that Toyota has invested in a large amount of production capacity for the Tundra which will never be used.
Kind of like the Titan.
Stewart Fan is right about the GVWR of all 1/2 ton series trucks. Rental companies require a 3/4 ton truck to rent anything larger than a 5'X8' light duty utility trailer. The larger trailers can be loaded to exceed the GVWR or combined vehicle weight of a 1/2 ton truck. The 8000 lb. tow rating of my GMC K2500 allows me to rent the trailer I need to move my tractor (~3500 lbs.). The 10,300 rating of the Toyota will not.
I guess my "hostility" toward this truck is that it is just another 1/2 ton truck with big promised performance, lousy gas milage, and is totally useless to me as a truck. I need the GVWR of a 3/4 ton for both personal and work related use.
When Toyota comes out with a 3/4 or 1 ton, 4X4, standard cab, with an inline six diesel, I'll be first in line.
Ed
I guess my "hostility" toward this truck is that it is just another 1/2 ton truck with big promised performance, lousy gas milage, and is totally useless to me as a truck. I need the GVWR of a 3/4 ton for both personal and work related use.
When Toyota comes out with a 3/4 or 1 ton, 4X4, standard cab, with an inline six diesel, I'll be first in line.
Ed
One fact for sure - the No. 1 rated Full Size Truck in terms of reliability - time and time again - the Tundra, hands down a better engineered and built truck. And that's where the repeat buyers come from. Will the new Tundra take some more truck market share - yes, but not to a large extent.
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